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  • Originally posted by nightwind View Post
    Mr. C, ...well done vid. Have questions about your scope shots: what is the starting value of the waveform and its ending value? I realize it probably won't be accurate, but it would be nice know the multiplier value. How long is the cycle before it starts again? Is it the same frequency as your square wave input? Thanks
    Those are good questions, i will try to calibrate this old piece of junk, but until i get my digital Velleman back, its guessing.
    The function gen is run by a 9 volt, and the main power is a 12v snowmobile battery, so nothing special there.

    On L1 i have that .01 uf cap rated for 40kv, The ignition coils on their own arc to 2cm, im not sure if its charging up to 40kv, but it definitely raises the voltage from the ignition coils.

    Regretfully i still dont have the right capacitance on L2, but soon

    Im not sure if the wave form matches the beginning and end of the square pulse, because at times it would flow like bubbles, irradically, then other times it flows consistently.
    I dont think my signal gen is changed, so maybe the wave form follows the effect of the charged L and C, and not exactly the square pulse driving it
    In the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities.
    In the expert's mind there are few.
    -Shunryu Suzuki

    Comment


    • Originally posted by mr.clean View Post
      Originally posted by Dave45 View Post
      Awesome
      schematic ?
      Those are good questions, i will try to calibrate this old piece of junk, but until i get my digital Velleman back, its guessing.
      The function gen is run by a 9 volt, and the main power is a 12v snowmobile battery, so nothing special there.

      On L1 i have that .01 uf cap rated for 40kv, The ignition coils on their own arc to 2cm, im not sure if its charging up to 40kv, but it definitely raises the voltage from the ignition coils.

      Regretfully i still dont have the right capacitance on L2, but soon

      Im not sure if the wave form matches the beginning and end of the square pulse, because at times it would flow like bubbles, irradically, then other times it flows consistently.
      I dont think my signal gen is changed, so maybe the wave form follows the effect of the charged L and C, and not exactly the square pulse driving it
      Last edited by mr.clean; 12-16-2011, 04:15 PM.
      In the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities.
      In the expert's mind there are few.
      -Shunryu Suzuki

      Comment


      • Originally posted by mr.clean View Post
        Those are good questions, i will try to calibrate this old piece of junk, but until i get my digital Velleman back, its guessing.
        The function gen is run by a 9 volt, and the main power is a 12v snowmobile battery, so nothing special there.

        On L1 i have that .01 uf cap rated for 40kv, The ignition coils on their own arc to 2cm, im not sure if its charging up to 40kv, but it definitely raises the voltage from the ignition coils.

        Regretfully i still dont have the right capacitance on L2, but soon

        Im not sure if the wave form matches the beginning and end of the square pulse, because at times it would flow like bubbles, irradically, then other times it flows consistently.
        I dont think my signal gen is changed, so maybe the wave form follows the effect of the charged L and C, and not exactly the square pulse driving it
        Originally posted by boguslaw View Post
        Extremally IMPORTANT INFO !
        That must be completed with schematic and digested slowly , as this is the missing puzzle I think. Thank You !

        Schematic please ??
        Definitely, the driver too?
        In the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities.
        In the expert's mind there are few.
        -Shunryu Suzuki

        Comment


        • Originally posted by boguslaw View Post
          HOW did you do that ? That's important step to OU, let us know
          It is possible for this waveform to not be OU. It could be that the beginning value is the input voltage attenuated under heavy impedence and and as the impedence falls, the voltage begins expanding reaching the normal value of the input voltage.
          Now,...if the beginning of the waveform is the input voltage value, then we may have a whole different ballgame.

          Comment


          • Simpe OU

            Originally posted by zilano
            Simple Overunity
            Hi zilano:

            As your simple OU circut, but it does not work. My connection like this:



            Even a 6.5v 0.15A bulb, it does not work also.

            What's wrong with my circut?

            As i see. It's a tesla twin coil. And one side are 50 turns(the wire coil), the other side one turn(the tube). Is it right?

            Pls help.

            Best regards.
            Last edited by ostone; 01-18-2012, 08:14 AM.

            Comment


            • ac capacitors

              Originally posted by zilano
              use
              series and parallel combination of small caps like they use in tesla coils. see previous posts regarding tesla coils. where they use small caps in parallel combination to increase uf and series combination to increase voltage ratings. i have posted links b4 regarding mmc(multi miniature caps) but they must be ac types. or u can salvage caps from old tv pcb boards also.they contain hv ac caps.
              rgds

              zzzz
              I have tv pcb's but for 4000uf it's very high. All those that I found on my boards were 50uf mostly although high voltage. With these ;one needs around 100 caps in parallel to reach 4k
              MMC link could not find it.
              I will try without the ac cap and see if the battery charges otherwise I have leave this circuit.
              Thanks for help.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ostone View Post
                Hi zilano:

                As your simple OU circut, but it does not work. My connection like this:



                Even a 6.5v 0.15A bulb, it does not work also.

                What's wrong with my circut?

                As i see. It's a tesla twin coil. And one side are 50 turns(the wire coil), the other side one turn(the tube). Is it right?

                Pls help.

                Best regards.

                Hello everybody!

                I, too, take some 2 hours to build the device and also I believe it is not a working one, even small discharge lamp is not lighten!!!!!!

                have a nice night
                e
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mr.clean View Post
                  Those are good questions, i will try to calibrate this old piece of junk, but until i get my digital Velleman back, its guessing.
                  The function gen is run by a 9 volt, and the main power is a 12v snowmobile battery, so nothing special there.

                  On L1 i have that .01 uf cap rated for 40kv, The ignition coils on their own arc to 2cm, im not sure if its charging up to 40kv, but it definitely raises the voltage from the ignition coils.

                  Regretfully i still dont have the right capacitance on L2, but soon

                  Im not sure if the wave form matches the beginning and end of the square pulse, because at times it would flow like bubbles, irradically, then other times it flows consistently.
                  I dont think my signal gen is changed, so maybe the wave form follows the effect of the charged L and C, and not exactly the square pulse driving it
                  Hi mr Clean, To me that waveform looks like it could be that every cycle of
                  the input coils adds to the Tank cap energy until the spark gap fires.

                  If the frequency of the input matches the groups of oscillations it is
                  interesting, but if the frequency of the spark gap is less than the the input
                  frequency then not so interesting.

                  If the spark gap frequency is the frequency of the groups of oscillations and
                  the input frequency is more it should build the energy in the tank with each
                  cycle of the input and show a building waveform, because of added energy
                  with each cycle of the input. Depending on where the setup is scoped will
                  give different wave forms.

                  This is from the diode recovery of an ignition coil driving a Tesla coil.


                  Uploaded with ImageShack.us

                  I think from memory this is across the Tank cap of the supply transformer
                  driving the ignition coil. As the voltage of the HV caps the ignition coil is
                  charging rises the voltage of the supply transformer tank also rises until the gap fires.



                  Uploaded with ImageShack.us

                  And this is the one above zoomed in, but it was shakey and wouldn't stay still.



                  Uploaded with ImageShack.us

                  I refuse to scope the tank of of the Tesla coil because it might ruin my scope.
                  And when the scope probe is left hanging all I get is the waveform of the Tesla coil terminal.

                  Those shots were from a while ago.

                  I don't think a building waveform necessarily means OU. It just means the
                  voltage in the cap or tank is rising with each cycle, if the voltage is rising
                  between cycles of the supply pulses then it could be interesting. Cap or tank
                  voltage rising with each pulse of the supply should happen and is normal. It
                  depends on the spark gap frequency and the supply frequency and the
                  frequency of free oscillations I imagine.

                  I can't tell if that is what happening in the video and I can't comment on the
                  video waveform. But I just thought I would share that.

                  Cheers

                  Comment


                  • Mr clean, how come you anti paralleled the ignition coils ? I would have thought
                    it better to to use them out of phase in a two phase PWM setup then you could
                    have double the frequency and current.

                    I think the voltage from one ignition coil is heaps enough and ignition coils would
                    likely have a fairly low resonant frequency. I can't even measure the secondary
                    inductance of my ignition coil with a 20 Henry LC meter, still out of range.

                    I'm not sure if pulsing an ignition coil at high frequency for long periods is a
                    good idea. Maybe it's ok. I would like to hear what others think about that.

                    What is too high of a frequency to operate ignition coils at ? It would be useful
                    to know for sure what frequencies we can use with ignition coils.

                    Cheers

                    Comment


                    • I played with one some time back, an old Delco out of a 60's chevy and found it would run at 6.5 khz with no problems. It seemed to have a natural resonance at around 3khz. I've run them as high as 300khz but only briefly and it's performance wasn't the best.

                      The primary measured in at 6.5 mh and the secondary was 51.6 Henry.

                      More recently I set one up with a passive oscillator using HV solar panels to charge a .5uf cap matched for the 3k resonance ( actually about 2.7khz ) and ran it through a GDT. Quite interesting what you can do with them.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dragon View Post
                        I've run them as high as 300khz but only briefly and it's performance wasn't the best.

                        The primary measured in at 6.5 mh and the secondary was 51.6 Henry.

                        More recently I set one up with a passive oscillator using HV solar panels to charge a .5uf cap matched for the 3k resonance ( actually about 2.7khz ) and ran it through a GDT. Quite interesting what you can do with them.
                        Great to know man thanks!! so thats .... way too low eh lol

                        Originally posted by Farmhand View Post
                        Mr clean, how come you anti paralleled the ignition coils ? I would have thought
                        it better to to use them out of phase in a two phase PWM setup then you could
                        have double the frequency and current.

                        I think the voltage from one ignition coil is heaps enough and ignition coils would
                        likely have a fairly low resonant frequency. I can't even measure the secondary
                        inductance of my ignition coil with a 20 Henry LC meter, still out of range.

                        I'm not sure if pulsing an ignition coil at high frequency for long periods is a
                        good idea. Maybe it's ok. I would like to hear what others think about that.

                        What is too high of a frequency to operate ignition coils at ? It would be useful
                        to know for sure what frequencies we can use with ignition coils.

                        Cheers
                        my head just exploded

                        Very cool stuff
                        i admit that i have no formal classroom education with advanced electronics
                        and much of what you mentioned was new to me about resonance and the ignition coils.
                        im just trying to follow as close as i can to the directions that i see potential in.
                        I could easily use a core that could handle higher freq, but i wasnt aware that the ignition coils could be a problem.
                        I guess we'll find out, but everything has stayed cool so far, actually i had 4 NPNs on heatsinks and one seemed to get warm, so i removed 3 and it has been singing beautifully... so far

                        --So i should remove one ignition coil? but still it may not handle the freq im looking for
                        Well that wouldnt be hard to use a better transformer to improve things.

                        I do need to get an LCR meter, but i have been just using online calculators for this.
                        For inductance the program ive been using is bang on with what B&W rates the inductance at. reassuring to know i can just go by turns and still have accurate uH, anyway

                        What my objective was to cycle 226.9khz into 49.2uH with .01uf for L1
                        ....and it be recieved by 14.1uH (x2) with .03uf.... but im not sure what my freq is... purely due to not trusting the dial and inexperience using an old fashioned scope. All ive done so far was trial and error... but belief it could work, simply by the fact that a classic TC can be tuned to work.

                        *** And yes im aware Don didnt say this was a very mysterious thing with the building wave form... BUT... That
                        "...THIS is the wave form that you want to see..."
                        in his words
                        ... and i didnt have that wave form until just recently when i added the caps (wrong caps on the calculated L and freq

                        One question i have though is:

                        --how could a tiny nst be an advantage over an ignition coil and HV source with adjustable freq and duty cycle?
                        I feel that the home built setup is superior to what could be inside the tiny case of a cheap little nst...
                        --WHAT is the magic that is inside it ? the core from an ignition coil i assume would also be better than what could be inside the small nst

                        ..and not to waste too much time on what WON'T work... hehe
                        ...what would be better for mid to low khz?

                        Obviously its gotta be under the AM, and i just dont know if i can get into the Mhz with a cheap setup, so the 30-50khz and much over 200khz and i start to not trust it unless it has a brand name on it and it costs $5000

                        Im aware of the many great unobtainable things to use as transformers, but im not too picky, i dont care if its not Terfenol D or whatev... what is cheap and easy?

                        Another thing ive wondered is who made the term CW/CCW lol, god that gets me, maybe we could all go by...
                        "all in one direction, with a center tap to divide them" or
                        "half in one direction, then reversed" ........ ????
                        For gods sake "I" dont even know myself and i have hooked them both ways,,, and i got results both ways... so who the hell knows.

                        hehe anyway, i appreciate all advice you have on it

                        All i know is so far... that im hooking it up the way Don did on his double helices board... and seeing what im told i should look for on the scope...
                        So if there's more i can do then i definitely want know
                        Thanks again all you guys
                        In the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities.
                        In the expert's mind there are few.
                        -Shunryu Suzuki

                        Comment


                        • Hi mr.clean, Please don't take it the wrong way I don't know a whole lot myself.
                          The building waveform is good yes, and I am aware you didn't say anything about OU.
                          If we think logically there could be a few reasons to see a building waveform.
                          One reason being as I described above.

                          Some say the wave form can ring up (and gain energy) with no further input, I
                          have my doubts about that. But they are just "my" doubts.

                          Another reason could be, say if the tank received a pulse of energy which
                          sloshed back and forth, the tank has a certain capacity and as the sloshing
                          continued "if" the capacity was to reduce the voltage would have to rise and
                          show a building waveform.

                          Or if the tanks resonant frequency was 30 Khz and it received pulses at 35 Khz
                          and as the pulse of energy slowed down to the resonant frequency of the tank
                          the voltage should rise, Maybe.

                          I'm just throwing out some thoughts here.

                          I'm thinking with the ignition coils in anti parallel, the very good thing would be
                          that you could get a higher voltage with a very small input current and so
                          keep the input current to the coils low, plus the load is shared.

                          I like your setup, I think your doing things well so to investigate things, which is good.

                          The NST would have a ferrite core and a transformer much like the Don Smith
                          setup, not sure how they would be wound, center tapped for sure.
                          Probably wound opposite.

                          If I was going to build an NST for double voltage I would wind two complete
                          transformers opposite and secondary negatives connected for center tap.
                          And if was going to wind one for double current I would wind two identical
                          transformers wound the same with secondary negatives connected for center
                          tap.
                          Though I would use a primary for one each one (two primaries) wound the
                          same way as their secondary, the primaries could be connected in series or
                          parallel. Two primaries in both cases as you have with two ignition coils.

                          A similar arrangement should be possible with ignition coils. However if the
                          ignition coil is pulsed with DC pulses the transients may become detrimental
                          to the switches at higher power levels for extended periods, ie. a few amps.

                          Here is a circuit for driving a center tapped transformer with two primaries for
                          a double current output and charging inductor. This one is step down.


                          Uploaded with ImageShack.us

                          And here is a circuit for a DC pulse setup with one primary and a center
                          tapped secondary connected for double voltage.


                          Uploaded with ImageShack.us

                          I wound a HV Air core transformer like this, it works OK for a couple of KV at
                          40 khz. I use it with the primaries and the secondaries in series, the
                          transformers are opposite wound for double voltage.


                          Uploaded with ImageShack.us

                          This picture only one secondary is wound, can't find one of it finished.


                          Uploaded with ImageShack.us

                          I notice Don reduces the input voltage to the NST with an auto transformer.
                          The two NST outputs are paralleled. If each output of the NST is 40 Khz then
                          he probably has 80 Khz if the outputs are out of phase.

                          Adjusting the input voltage should not affect resonance but it can regulate
                          the output power.

                          I think we need a way to vary the input voltage to the HV supply to control
                          output power rather than PWM, varying the PW can affect the resonance.

                          A cap and diode switched voltage doubler can be used to regulate input
                          voltage between battery voltage and almost double batt voltage.



                          Uploaded with ImageShack.us

                          Cheers

                          Comment


                          • Car Coil circuit

                            Today I've built the car coil circuit and those cfl's light really well. The thing I noticed is when I put the diode as Zilano told me the neon does not light up.
                            Regarding DC cap I did negative to transistor base ; hope I hooked this good. AC caps 3uf 650v I connected until I will find more .
                            On battery I'm not seeing charge maybe because of caps. I will continue experiment on this.
                            Thanks

                            Comment


                            • for your consideration

                              Donít you just love it when some Ė one says its soooo easy everyone should be doing it! Like everything else its easy when you know still here's one of those for consideration Freeenergyinventions
                              Whatever you can do,or dream you can,begin it.Boldness has genius,power and magic in it.Begin it now.

                              Comment


                              • Winding jig

                                Hi ALL,
                                1.
                                just finished winding jig. Might be motivation for you.

                                Two identical cordless drilling machines mounted on two small boards. Two clamps adjust length for core on the desk. Machines with 2 speed preferrable because of lowest speed required. You get plenty of them at eBay with defect battery.
                                These are 18V each connected in series to 12V (computer PSU).
                                Only one of the speed controllers is used for foot operated accelerator. (An accelerator from a sewing machine / transformer / rectifier worked as well)

                                Centering and drive = funnels with threaded stud inserted (10mm) + nuts + washers / glue. Works fine because of the two side drive.


                                Above the funnel (hard to see) -> electro mechanic counter operated by reed contact.
                                Below in the pic the funnel with 10 mm threaded stud, nuts and washers monted. this is the counterpart form the right hand machine.
                                I can add bigger funnels on top of the small ones in order to wind up to 4" cores.

                                2.
                                If you intend to cut a core out of a pipe 90 degree:
                                - Wind a sheet of paper around
                                - match edges
                                - secure it with adhesive tape.
                                - cut along edges.

                                3.
                                If you inted to wind a coil with windings at certain distance:
                                - print a sheet of paper with lines in the intended distance
                                - wind the sheet of paper around the core & match edges.
                                - shift the paper one line distance aside
                                - secure with adhesive tape
                                - now you have a precise template for winding

                                If you intend to do it bifilar - shift the paper two lines distance before using adhesive tape.

                                4.
                                Regarding RLC-meter:
                                Be careful if you buy one. Most affordable ones use a frequency below 70 KHz. I own two of them ( Voltcraft + CNN (Chineese No Name)) and both do not work at coils with low count windings as we use.
                                As we intend to know resonance frequency it will be better to measure and adjust this parameter directly. Some posts before there was a link on how easy it is to connect and measure.
                                Fortunately I own a signal generator. Alternatively you can take in account to buy a "apparatus" like this

                                If you have no scope use your DMM DC with peak detector inserted:
                                - Diode in series (i.e. 1N4148 or faster diode) anode to coil
                                - capacitor from kathode to GND
                                - 1Meg Resistor parallel to capacitor for discharge
                                - DMM connected to capacitor

                                You will see very clearly the max voltages if you wind up the frequency range.

                                If not understandable request schematic. Sorry, I'm sitting just now not at my computer.



                                5.
                                Thanks for your sharing. Some items hard for me to understand. But I feel constant progress.

                                rgds John
                                Last edited by JohnStone; 01-11-2013, 10:09 PM.
                                Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

                                Comment

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