Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

If you want to find the secrets of the universe...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ernst
    replied
    Hi NROC,
    It is funny that you should say that.
    When I started to make a list of reasons why I feel this is not a genuine Tesla quote, I also wrote down that Tesla prefers to speak of "power" even where he should say "energy". But then I went to check this against the articles that I have, and of course, immediately found "the Problem of Increasing Human Energy". I think the reason why you and I have this idea, is the fact that when we read Tesla's work, we find that he uses the word "power" where our education/background (which apparently does matter) says you should say "energy".
    After going through all of Tesla's articles (the ones that I have in a searchable format) I cannot maintain the energy/power argument as Tesla also frequently uses the word "energy".

    As for the 369 quote, there is no known source and it is most likely made up by some lunatic.
    If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have the key to the universe.
    Every part of this quote is so absurd, meaningless and ridiculous that no one in his right mind would say such a thing. This would apply quite well to this quote.
    I think it has been pinned on Tesla because Tesla did show a preference for numbers divisible by 3. Many small things in the past grow big in our memories and I think these strange quirks of Tesla are an example of that. William Terbo, met Tesla when he was about 10 years old. Here he speaks about that moment. That sounds very different from what you usually hear; that Tesla wore gloves because he didn't want to touch people and was disgusted by human hair.


    Ernst.

    Leave a comment:


  • NROC
    replied
    Hey Ernst,

    I've often wondered about this statement myself. I have a background in physics and electrical engineering (not that that matters) and having read Tesla's work from that point of view I dont think it is genuine. I could imagine Tesla perhaps referring to vibrations as to differentiate between different wave modes and propagation types like EM waves, EM surface waves or maybe longitudinal waves, but i agree then - why would you add frequency in that statement? Surely vibration encompasses all of that.

    The other thing that alerts me is that Tesla (please correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't read Tesla's articles for while) didn't really care much for the term 'Energy' he tended to speak more in terms of power....

    Is the famous 3, 6 and 9 quote BS aswell?

    NROC

    Leave a comment:


  • Ernst
    replied
    Let me first re-state the purpose of this thread:
    I would like to see additional evidence that would either confirm or deny the Bergstresser quote. For example, I would like to see evidence that Tesla knew Bergstresser. Anything that would make it more or less likely that Tesla said this.

    Then following your sidesteps, Sparky53, the problem that you are facing, IMHO, is that there are several definitions of the ether. If you stick with the Akasha-like version, as I'd normally do, and I believe Tesla also in >95% of his writings, then the ether is a homogeneous fluid. Being homogeneous means that it is not made up of particles. It will always look like water no matter how deep you zoom in. Being incompressible and homogeneous means that you can never distinguish ether over here from ether over there. It is exactly the same because it cannot differ in pressure nor in internal structure (because there is none).
    This is the most fundamental form of matter, but one could argue that it is not matter and that matter is formed out of this fluid because of a force acting on it and throwing it into whirls. These whirls are the most elementary particles, and I believe they are much smaller than the smallest particles that we know today. An electron, for example, must be made up of many of these ether whirls.
    If you now look up Maxwell's theory, you will see that it matches this theory of Tesla (and the Veda's), but there is one more thing. Maxwell believed that besides these whirls, that he called vortex-cells, smaller particles are created that move freely between these vortex-cells. He does not explain where those come from and how, but he describes how these particles create electrical effects such as charge. So an electron, according to this model, would like like a (large) collection of ether whirls and these smaller particles create an effect that we know as electrical charge.
    These smaller particles act as a gas and thus Maxwell's theory aligns with Tesla's.
    So when Tesla talks about the ether, in most cases he refers to this fluid Akasha-like medium out of which matter is formed.
    When Maxwell talks about the ether, he thinks of a medium consisting of 3 components, one fluid (Tesla's ether), one gaseous (what Tesla usually refers to as "the medium") and one solid (the collection of vortex-cells).
    There are a few (one or two) occasions where Tesla does not use the term "the medium" while he should have to be clearer and more consistent. One of those instances is the one you quoted here. It should be obvious that you cannot have compression waves in an incompressible medium. Therefore if he was referring to the incompressible fluid ether, it would not make any sense. But he also writes "the universal medium is a gaseous body" which clearly refers to his gaseous medium that makes up a part of Maxwell's ether. And in the following sentence, he uses the word ether in the Maxwellian form and in a "totum pro parte" metonymy. That is, IMHO, the only logical interpretation of what he writes.

    Now your question, can we act on the ether?
    I think we can in more than one way. One way would indeed be through electrical means because if we create motion in this gaseous medium, which we surely can, that movement will act on the fluid medium (=ether) surrounding the particles that make up the gaseous medium.


    Perhaps we should now go a bit more on-topic?


    Ernst.

    Leave a comment:


  • sparky53
    replied
    Hello Ernst,

    I fully agree we all should be interested only in the truth and nothing but the truth.
    Therefore it is best to stick with original quotes from Tesla where we are a 100% sure that he actually said the words.

    Quotes that come from a guy like Bergstresser have therefore to be dismissed as „hearsay“ and should never be taken to bear the same „value“ as original genuine quotes from Tesla himself.
    I fully agree.

    Since Bergstresser was also about „purple Tesla plates“ we might even think about dimissing everything that he was „contributing“ as part of an „easy money making sceme“ from him.

    I fully agree that Tesla would always have stated that vibrations have a certain rate of vibration which is the frequency at which a vibration takes place, like you say Ernst, Tesla never would have made the error of thinking that „rate of vibration“ and „frequency“ were two different things and therefore he would have to mention them both in a (supposed) quote like the one we are discussing. (I fully agree with You on that)

    Ernst, OK, I sidestepped quite a bit from the original topic of the thread that You have started by diving a bit into the „Dynamic Theory of Gravity“ sorry for that !

    Thank You for finding the original quotes like You did in Your last post here.

    Ernst, I retrieved the quote that Tesla had „worked out in all details“ two Theories (one of which is the dynamic Theory of gravity) in the years 1893 and 1894 from the book „Occult Ether Physics“ from author William R.Lyne.
    But I cannot find original Quotes to confirm that Tesla has said/written this.


    Ernst, I think maybe after 1891 Tesla believed in an „elastic“ (slightly compressible not incompressible) gaseous ether, that would allow for „alternating compressions and expansions similar to those produced by sound waves in the air.“
    it is a quote from the article:




    PIONEER RADIO ENGINEER GIVES VIEWS ON POWER
    by Nikola Tesla
    New York Herald Tribune, September 11, 1932

    Tesla Says Wireless Waves Are Not Electromagnetic, But Sound In Nature
    Holds Space Not Curved—Predicts Power Transmission to Other Planets

    by Nikola Tesla

    The assumption of the Maxwellian ether was thought necessary to explain the propagation of light by transverse vibrations, which can only occur in a solid. So fascinating was this theory that even at present it has many supporters, despite the manifest impossibility of a medium, perfectly mobile and tenuous to a degree inconceivable, and yet extremely rigid, like steel. As a result some illusionary ideas have been formed and various phenomena erroneously interpreted. The so-called Hertz waves are still considered a reality proving that light is electrical in its nature, and also that the ether is capable of transmitting transverse vibrations of frequencies however low. This view has become untenable since I showed that the universal medium is a gaseous body in which only longitudinal pulses can be propagated, involving alternating compressions and expansions similar to those produced by sound waves in the air. Thus, a wireless transmitter does not emit Hertz waves which are a myth, but sound waves in the ether, behaving in every respect like those in the air, except that, owing to the great elastic force and extremely small density of the medium, their speed is that of light.
    …….
    ……..
    ……..
    As the general knowledge of this subject seems very limited, I may state, that even waves only one or two millimeters long, which I produced thirty-three years ago, provided that they carry sufficient energy, can be transmitted around the globe. This is not so much due to refraction and reflection as to the properties of a gaseous medium and certain peculiar action, which I shall explain some time in the future. At present it may be sufficient to call attention to an important fact in this connection, namely, that this bending of the beam projected from reflector does not affect in the least its behavior in other respects. As regards deflection in a horizontal plane, it acts just as though it were straight. To be explicit the horizontal deviations are comparatively slight. In a proposed ultrashort wave transmission, the vertical bending, far from being an advantage, is a serious drawback, as it increased greatly the liability of disturbances by obstacles at the earth's surface. The downward deflection always occurs, irrespective of wavelength, and also if the beam is thrown upward at an angle to the horizontal, and this tendency is, according to my finding, all the more pronounced the bigger the planet. On a body as large as the sun, it would be impossible to project a disturbance of this kind to any considerable distance except along the surface.

    It might be inferred that I am alluding to the curvature of space supposed to exist according to the teachings of relativity, but nothing could be further from my mind. I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can have no properties. It might as well be said that God has properties. He has not, but only attributes and these are of our own making. Of properties we can only speak when dealing with matter filling the space. To say that in the presence of large bodies space becomes curved, is equivalent to stating that something can act upon nothing. I, for one, refuse to subscribe to such a view.“ (End of article)



    sparky53:
    About the discussion that „ALL is made out of one substance“ : (and I think he would propose to use electromagnetic forces to manipulate ether BECAUSE ETHER contains particles that carry a charge)
    I quote the following article:





    Man's Greatest Achievement
    by Nikola Tesla

    New York American — July 6, 1930

    „ …….
    …….
    ……

    Long ago he recognized that all perceptible matter comes from a primary substance, of a tenuity beyond conception and filling all space - the Akasha or luminiferous ether - which is acted upon by the life-giving Prana or creative force, calling into existence, in never ending cycles, all things and phenomena.

    The primary substance, thrown into infinitesimal whirls of prodigious velocity, becomes gross matter; the force subsiding, the motion ceases and matter disappears, reverting to the primary substance.

    Can Man control this grandest, most awe-inspiring of all processes in nature? Can he harness her inexhaustible energies to perform all their functions at his bidding, more still - can he so refine his means of control as to put them in operation simply by the force of his will?

    If he could do this he would have powers almost unlimited and supernatural. At his command, with but a slight effort on his part, old worlds would disappear and new ones of his planning would spring into being.

    He could fix, solidify and preserve the ethereal shapes of his imagining, the fleeting visions of his dreams. He could express all the creations of his mind, on any scale, in forms concrete and imperishable.

    He could alter the size of this planet, control its seasons, guide it along any path he might choose through the depths of the Universe.

    He could make planets collide and produce his suns and stars, his heat and light. He could originate and develop life in all its infinite forms.

    To create and annihilate material substance, cause it to aggregate in forms according to his desire, would be the supreme manifestation of the power of Man’s mind, his most complete triumph over the physical world, his crowning achievement which would place him beside his Creator and fulfill his ultimate destiny.“ (End of article)


    Ernst, I think that the generation of Radio waves and the propagation of Radio waves (if interpreted the Tesla way) "in general" proves to us that we as humans can "act on ETHER" with electromagnetic forces or in our case electrcial currents. What do You say ? (If this is the case, then maybe this is possible because ETHER particles carry a charge/ a load/ a potential ?)



    sparky53

    Leave a comment:


  • Ernst
    replied
    Thanks for your extensive explanation of your opinion, Sparky53. I think, what is missing is the fact that this was supposedly said in a private conversation, not a public announcement. In a public statement, you can announce the publication of your work as Tesla did with his Dynamic Theory of Gravity and in that same fashion, you could give a hint of what is to come, as Tesla indeed did on a number of occasions. In a private conversation a statement such as "think of A, B and C" is not the end of a discussion. It is a start, an opening. And following such a massive statement as "if you want to know the secrets of the universe", which implies the ridiculous claim that you know this, it can not just end there.

    And as I already stated to say you must think of "frequency" and don't forget to think about "vibration" as well, is absurd.

    Then you talk about electrically charged ether particles. That does not happen in Tesla's theory. Ether is in Tesla's view an incompressible, continuous, fluid medium, not made up of particles. This is BTW the solution to the problem Einstein followers have with an ether. If it is not made up of smaller particles and incompressible, there is no problem with "Relativity". But that is just a side note. Immersed in this fluid ether, Tesla saw a gaseous medium which is responsible for all electrical effects. Being the cause of electrical effects it can not be subject to electrical effects. In other words, the particles that make up this gas cannot have an electric charge because what would then be the cause of that charge? Stresses or motion in this gas cause electrical charge in other particles.
    When you say ether particles, that does not appear in Tesla's book. It does in Maxwell's which is partly consistent with Tesla's if you study it carefully.

    Let me help you with this one:
    The day when we shall know exactly what "electricity" is, will chronicle an event probably greater, more important than any other recorded in the history of the human race.
    On Light and Other High Frequency Phenomena, Feb 24th, 1893.
    This does not imply that Tesla knew the exact nature of electricity. And in fact, at that time he was still researching it.

    Before that time in a lecture in 1891, May 20th, he said:
    Electricity, therefore, cannot be called ether in the broad sense of the term; but nothing would seem to stand in the way of calling electricity ether associated with matter, or bound to it; or, in other words, that the so-called static charge of the molecule is ether associated in some way with the molecule. Looking at it in that light, we would be justified in saying, that electricity is concerned in all molecular actions.
    Now, precisely what the ether surrounding the molecules is, wherein it differs from ether in general, can only be conjectured. It cannot differ in density, ether being incompressible; it must, therefore, be under some strain or in motion, and the latter is the most probable.
    (Experiments with Alternate Currents of Very High Frequency and Their Application to Methods of Artificial Illumination)
    Note that this differs from what you remember of this quote. That is why it is important to always refer back to the exact quote. At this time Tesla was still unsure about the true nature of electricity and he shows experiments in this and the next two lectures that have led him to believe that a gaseous medium is involved. Not just ether.

    As I said, I don't want to say that there is no value in this quote, I just don't believe that Tesla ever said this and that Bergstresser used it to promote his "Purple Plates" which he also named "Tesla Purple Plates".

    You say:
    his interpretations about all the phenomena he encountered when doing electrical research were always mechanical and in my opinion never "meta-physical" or "transcendental".
    which is true when speaking about Tesla. Does that also hold for Bergstresser? (just asking)

    One final correction:
    This quote:
    The first was a dynamic theory of gravity, which I have worked out in all details and hope to give to the world very soon.
    Comes from his prepared birthday speech in 1937. In 1892/3 he had nothing of that kind.

    Sooooooooo....
    Many sidesteps from the main topic here, but I think it is important to stay as close as possible to the actual facts instead of interpretations thereof. Only that can help us find the truth.


    Ernst.

    Leave a comment:


  • sparky53
    replied
    Hello Ernst,

    I can only give here my personal opinion (and unfortunately no historic source or proof of any kind).

    I personally have no problem with the statement
    "If you want to find the secrets of the Universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
    in my opinion this fits into all of the hints that Tesla gave about his
    "Dynamic Theory of Gravity" which is ultimately a Theory to explain electric current, magnetic phenomena, electrostatic phenomena, gravity, inertia and matter in general.

    Therefore I take the (supposed) Quote :"If you want to find the secrets of the Universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
    as if Tesla was giving another hint towards this Theory about Gravity and I interpret
    this quote as if Tesla was using cryptic language (because he had to use it) in order to say:
    "ALL MATTER in this Universe IS ULTIMATELY MADE OUT OF the same kind of tiny, tiny particles, THE ETHER Particles that carry an electrostatic charge each.
    ALL THE PHENOMENA that can be recognized in this Universe can be traced back to these ETHER Particles having different levels of energy, different frequencys of vibration, compression and rarefication ("sound waves in the ether")
    but still it is all just ETHER.
    ULTIMATELY ALL IS ONE, everthing and every phenomenon is ultimately made out of the same substance...."

    I think that Tesla here again (with this quote) gave a very important hint to his successors for what to look out for if they ever want to "see through" the inner workings of this
    universe (nature) like he could.

    For me the quote also reminds me about his quote "The day on which the human kind figures out the true nature of the electron, will be a very great day....."
    (Also this quote sounds to me as if Tesla already knew the answer to what an electron actually WAS...)

    And in few of his articles we can find him writing "...we have reason to believe that an electron is nothing else but ether under some kind of stress...".

    To me the quote "If you want to find the secrets of the Universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration." feels as if Tesla was saying
    "Since everything in this universe can be traced back to ETHER, even electrical currents, we can manipulate everything with electrical currents of sufficient magnitude, frequency, Tension"
    This quote sounds to me as if Tesla was saying "The Nature of all that exists, of the whole Universe and everything inside of it, can be seen as electrical in nature".

    Ernst, unfortunately I don't know whether this quote is correct at all and whether Tesla has ever said those words.
    Bergstresser might just have been another "planted asset" to "debunk" Tesla as a "Mad Man" or to mislead us successors of Tesla.
    I don't know and I have no historical source or proof into one or the other direction.

    All I have is my opinion and conviction that TESLA did speak those words
    - also, because "back in the day" many scientist believed that the Universe consisted ultimately of one substance only, and that is the ETHER.

    All that I have read so far from and about Tesla hints in that direction :
    Tesla said that energy could only be "carried" by "something" (by matter, by particles) and cannot be transfered by "nothing".
    He was against Einsteins "Time-Space" ideas and said that "nothing" (=like space as Einstein would have defined it) cannot have qualities attributed to it. (cannot carry qualities).

    So, ETHER is everywhere, nowhere in this universe we can find something that would be worth being called "nothing".
    Ether fluid can be compressed and relaxed (rarefied) to allow for radio signals to be transfered from A to B. ("sound waves in the ether")
    Ether particles "are thrown into infinitesimal whirls..." and thereby create atoms and later macroscopic objects that we can feel and touch.

    He was a mechanical engineer doing research on "vibration" of ether particles (probably that is how he saw electrical phenomena...),
    his interpretations about all the phenomena he encountered when doing electrical research were always mechanical and in my opinion never "meta-physical" or "transcendental".

    If we only had his "Dynamic Theory of Gravity" available, I think then a lot would be much more clearer for all of us ....
    (He said he had worked out this Theory "in all detail" by 1892/1893 and in 1895 his laboratory was (supposedly) burned down...)

    sparky53

    Leave a comment:


  • Ernst
    started a topic If you want to find the secrets of the universe...

    If you want to find the secrets of the universe...

    I have had this discussion more than once but let's see what we can come up with here.
    There is this quote going 'round:
    If you want to find the secrets of the Universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.
    which Tesla supposedly said to Ralph Bergstresser in a private conversation in 1942.
    I do not believe this for one second. Here is why:
    - To say something like this suggests that you know the secrets of the universe, which is an absurd claim
    - then go give such a vague hint is,.. odd to say the least. If someone said this to me I would try to get some more explanation and if I could not get anything more than this, I would disregard it altogether.
    - Tesla never uses the phrase "secrets of the Universe" in any of his texts. He speaks of "Secrets of Nature"
    - Ralph states that after they first met in the '40s, he frequently visited his laboratory. But Tesla didn't have a lab during those years.
    - In all of Tesla's writings that I have been able to get access to, there is never any mention of Ralph. Also in the inventory of Tesla's correspondence, there is no letter to nor from Ralph, while Tesla wrote with literally hundreds of people.
    - for someone who has been working in this field for such a large part of his life, it is very strange to say "you must think of vibration, oh, and also of frequency" as it is evidently impossible to think of one without the other.
    - Quotes attributed to people hawking products, people who claim to have received special knowledge first hand from Nikola Tesla, like Bergstresser selling his Purple Plates can probably be discounted. A private conversation seems very convenient.

    Now I am not claiming that there is no value in this quote. I do believe that one may get new insights meditating over energy and vibration. I just think that the quote in this form is absurd, nonsensical, self-flattering and most of all very un-Tesla.

    So why do I bring this up?
    Because this quote portrays Tesla as something that he definitely was not. In my opinion, it hurts Tesla's image. Therefore I would like to see evidence that either supports Ralphs story or my opinion about it.
    For example: Is there any evidence that Tesla knew Bergstresser? Is there any evidence that they met in the 1940's and in particular 1942? A picture of both of them?
    Is there anything, anyone can add to this story that could potentially lead to a final seal of truth or (as I expect) untruth.

    Ernst
Working...
X