The case against Over Unity

[baroutologos]

I remember myself almost a year ago, logging into this forum in the hope of obtaining free energy with humble materials.

I had read Bedini's comments concerning free energy with the illustration of devices primitive and stupid plain ones.

I begun, as many of us here with SSG. In spite of various testimonies that we obtain FE there, it turned out to be bull...
Then, we are told it is not Ou there.. More sophistikated systems are OU, not the old plain SSG. Various other devices claiming OU are more than proven a pile of bull...
Old and new ones same thing. no matter what you try, as told, no OU there.
I haven't meet a single trustworthy man to have reach OU here.

....

To me, a Harvard professor preaching OU cannot exist, i would not believe him, and i would consider him a illuminati (say) puppet.
On the contrary, the very people claiming OU via dumb devices and proven THOROUGHLY are not, make the perfect illustration that OU is not there.
....

In any case, OU can or cannot be manifested, the methods described by Bedini and others are plain disinformation and have not the slight potential of OU gaining.

I may displease some people and Bedini fans here. But lets face the facts. have you got ou? Hell no. Wake up. this kind of religion without proofs contradicts my scientific reasoning.

Stop buying DVDs of psedoscience. It maybe nice for pop-corn cola and sofa case, but full of bull for practical use.

Last and not least, when more than 1000 times asked kindly invetors to help out and an ou machine to be made by a third party, Chinise wisdom, big oil assassins threats and UFO conspiracies are claimed not to do so. As if they can in the first place.

The same "inventors" have set a whole industry based on us selling a lot of trinkets and "alternative" kind of stuff not which doing anything the alternate really.

I here stop my case.
Have fun playing with transistors, coils and magnets but forget OU there.


Sincerely
Baroutologos

ps: the one who likes to argue must have attained Ou himself

[sniky]

The expression perpetual motion, or perpetuum mobile, arose historically in connection with the quest for a mechanism which, once set in motion, would continue to do useful work without an external source of energy or which would produce more energy than it absorbed in a cycle of operation. This type of motion, now called perpetual motion of the first kind, involves only one of the three distinct concepts presently associated with the idea of perpetual motion.

Perpetual motion of the first kind refers to a mechanism whose efficiency exceeds 100%. Clearly such a mechanism violates the now firmly established principle of conservation of energy, in particular that statement of the principle of conservation of energy embodied in the first law of thermodynamics. (Indeed, the first law of thermodynamics is sometimes stated as “A perpetuum mobile of the first kind cannot exist.”). See also Conservation of energy.

Perpetual motion of the second kind refers to a device that extracts heat from a source and then converts this heat completely into other forms of energy, a process which satisfies the principle of conservation of energy. A dramatic scheme of this type would be an ocean liner, which extracts heat from the nearly limitless oceanic source and then uses this heat for propulsion. This type of perpetual motion is, however, precluded by the second law of thermodynamics which is sometimes stated as “A perpetuum mobile of the second kind cannot exist.”

The third type of perpetual motion is, in contrast to the two types described above wherein useful output was the goal, merely a device which can continue moving forever. It could result in actual systems if all mechanisms by which energy is dissipated could be eliminated. Since experience indicates that dissipative effects in mechanical systems can be reduced, by lubrication in the case of friction, for example, but not eliminated, mechanical perpetual motion of the third kind can be approximated but never achieved. An example of a genuine case of this kind occurs in a superconductor. If a direct current is caused to flow in a superconducting ring, this current will continue to flow undiminished in time without application of any external force. See also Superconductivity.

[Sephiroth]

I remember myself almost a year ago, logging into this forum in the hope of obtaining free energy with humble materials.

I had read Bedini's comments concerning free energy with the illustration of devices primitive and stupid plain ones.

I begun, as many of us here with SSG. In spite of various testimonies that we obtain FE there, it turned out to be bull...
Then, we are told it is not Ou there.. More sophistikated systems are OU, not the old plain SSG. Various other devices claiming OU are more than proven a pile of bull...
Old and new ones same thing. no matter what you try, as told, no OU there.
I haven't meet a single trustworthy man to have reach OU here.

....

To me, a Harvard professor preaching OU cannot exist, i would not believe him, and i would consider him a illuminati (say) puppet.
On the contrary, the very people claiming OU via dumb devices and proven THOROUGHLY are not, make the perfect illustration that OU is not there.
....

In any case, OU can or cannot be manifested, the methods described by Bedini and others are plain disinformation and have not the slight potential of OU gaining.

I may displease some people and Bedini fans here. But lets face the facts. have you got ou? Hell no. Wake up. this kind of religion without proofs contradicts my scientific reasoning.

Stop buying DVDs of psedoscience. It maybe nice for pop-corn cola and sofa case, but full of bull for practical use.

Last and not least, when more than 1000 times asked kindly invetors to help out and an ou machine to be made by a third party, Chinise wisdom, big oil assassins threats and UFO conspiracies are claimed not to do so. As if they can in the first place.

The same "inventors" have set a whole industry based on us selling a lot of trinkets and "alternative" kind of stuff not which doing anything the alternate really.

I here stop my case.
Have fun playing with transistors, coils and magnets but forget OU there.


Sincerely
Baroutologos

ps: the one who likes to argue must have attained Ou himself

you've said yourself that very few people actaully stick to the original plans... I know you are guilty of that as well...

And have you tried using conditioned batteries yet I doubt that you have rigourously conditioned your batteries in that short time.

[baroutologos]

Dear sheph,

I have tried everything and anything. No ou anyway. no ou could be in this way
Unless you have other experience


Regards,
Baroutologos

[Sephiroth]

Dear sheph,

I have tried everything and anything. No ou anyway. no ou could be in this way
Unless you have other experience


Regards,
Baroutologos

I do have other experience. I can not claim that I have ever achieved greater than COP1 in regards to the charging battery, though a fan I modified (which I was told was between 75 - 85% efficient to begin with) performed 8 times more mechanical work then the original fan could with the same batteries. This is interesting, but not proof.

Though I can not explain why the batteries charge as fast as they do when the power they are recieving is so low. when performing the load tests, the energy that ends up in the batteries far exceeds the energy that was being output by the oscillator. Usually many times greater.

That's evidence enough for me to keep going.

[jibbguy]

Your main complaint seems to be against Mr. Bedini.

Anyone who has read his story must come to the conclusion he won't show us anything really worth-while as far as over-unity is concerned... This is by paraphrasing his own words. His reasoning is that he was warned away by government / oil cartel agents. So if you listen to him at all, then you must always keep that in mind... He has made that clear multiple times.

However, if you follow his open-source work you will see a pattern and plan that many would term "worthy": That is to bring along the community and teach them certain principals and techniques necessary for finding and creating THEIR OWN devices & results. How many here started with building the SG? How much was learned from that experience? I would submit, that was the real point.

If you accept the idea that Free Energy exists, then imo, logically you must also accept that Suppression of it exists. If suppression of it exists, then you will probably come to the conclusion that this suppression must be universal: It must stop any open University Studies of these technologies, it must stop them from being Patented and allowed to market, and it must stop them from being widely heard about in the mainstream media. This is just common sense: As once ONE SINGLE F-E device reaches the mainstream, the questions and interest of the Public becomes too loud to ignore... And scientific theory must change to accept the empirical evidence. Once that happens, there is room for a hundred more devices to be accepted. So if Suppression exists, it must be all-encompassing to work at all.

So... It all comes down to whether we think suppression is plausible or not. Here is an example of Suppression that EVERYONE i have ever had this discussion, AGREES WITH:

That a government would deliberately stop a technology that was a danger to public health and safety from reaching market, and suppress information on it: Declaring it "Secret". As i say, EVERYONE agrees this is possible, and most would agree it is the "right & proper thing to do".

So it comes down to this: Do you trust your government to always use this power if suppression wisely? Are you convinced that some people within a government could not mis-use this power to have something that really was "safe" declared secret anyway... Because it would hurt some corporations' profits, or disrupt someone's plans?

That is the question you must answer for yourselves. Because if you do not trust this to always be the case, then you must admit the possibility that these Free Energy technologies DO INDEED EXIST, and have been suppressed. What we are trying to do here, is re-invent the wheel... Wheels that have been re-invented over and over the last hundred years. Every time someone is successful, the wheel is taken away, the knowledge of it suppressed, and we have to start over

[Michael John Nunnerley]

overunity or perpetual motion

Overunity or perpetual motion are two distinct things.

Perpetual motion in my opinion can NEVER exist because this means that you NEVER have an input, you never have a fuel, it works on its own, that IS breaking the law.

Overunity is another thing depending on how you look at it.

Overunity is taking a 9v battery and powering a circuit to produce 240v to power your house and as long as the battery is connected or has not run down, it will power your house. Another example is if you have a generator which is run on water only, impossible NO, you are using a fuel just like gas. When you run out of water the generator stops, the fuel was water, just like in a car the fuel was petrol.

Now overunity is real but you allways need a fuel, be it a battery or water or what ever you want to use, you have to put in an input to get an output.

Here on this forum has been shown OU, look at the Dr. Stiffler videos, I think it is his secound to last which shows OU. On his computerised plotting of an experiment he has clearly shown OU of the two plots of jouls consumed to the joules extracted. He shows the cross over point where after he is getting OU. He does not put it into words, but he is showing it to our eyes, that is the way he is, and that is one way that it CAN be done.

Mike

[nvisser]

[QUOTE=jibbguy;68284]
Well said Jibguy!!

[sebosfato]

There are many misunderstanding about Over unity many of the people who claims it, don't actually know what is happening on their devices and think that voltage reading is over unity.

The principal reason of this is that is there is a lot of confusion about what energy really is and where it come from or where it goes in internet.

The laws of thermodynamics is impossible to be broken because is very clear whenever you put energy in a closed system and you transform that in whatever energy, potential or kinetic. You will never extract all that energy back. Energy is not created and not consumed its transformed or at least accumulated or transfered.

Some people think there is a magical energy that come from somewhere and can be extracted. I don't believe is magical.

There is energy everywhere one can use it to perform work but you need to find a way to use it and principally know where it comes from. You at least need a bit of energy to be able to use it.

example:

One say i got a battery witch have a 12v and 100 amps. This totalize 1200W of stored energy, power right. But what happens when you short it??? The voltage witch is the energy in form of potential force accumulated in form of chemical energy, makes the electrons from the negative side pass thru the wire and if you have a resistance between it will heat up this is an energy transformation, from the electrochemical energy in the battery into electrical energy or movement of electrons than into heat.

What voltage really is?

Is easier to start understanding how electrical energy work by thinking voltage as a vacuum and wires as a tube and electrons like air, instead of the water pressure comparison that comes from the a tank passing thru the tubes and coming to the ground.

I know an inventor that is able to light up a 1kw lamp for 48 hours using only a battery 9 volts 4 amps he didn't explained me how because the subject was far ahead but the important is that he can.

If you think about if the thermodynamics laws clear indicates a closed circuit obviously is clear that in an open circuit you can have different conditions even over unite (or have more work done than conventional with the same energy) without breaking any laws of thermodynamics.

In my thread you can see i talk about my research on water as a fuel witch is believed to not be true by many, and i'm working since 3,5 years on it now and i think it don't break any laws while working because i don't consider it a close circuit.
my thread:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...eyer-true.html

I didn't reached yet but i'm close to that. O U Its possible for sure its write on the laws of the conservation the clue (the way that wont work)!

[blackchisel97]

overunity or perpetual motion

Michael, did you just bring the Earth to a stand still? Just kiddin'.
There are many oscillating/ moving/rotating fields we are immersed or exposed to, many of which barely understood. There are existing theories, same as a theories -LAWS- created upon discoveries. Some of them were declared century ago. When Wright Brothers flew their aircraft in 1903, books were still claiming man made flying apparatus impossible due to the LAWS of physics. The more open we remain the more chances are that we achieve something, instead of perfecting denial, based on LAWS. Greatest discoveries and technical advancement in history of human mankind were accomplished by people not afraid to think freely, often against common sense, odds - predicted by colleagues and lack of support. I'm not a dreamer but I would not dare to discredit someone's life of work and experiments only because I don't fully understand them or my replication does not work as it suppose to. We shall look for possibilities and combine our efforts as long as internet remains available. 30 years ago I had to seat in the library and search through towers of books to find an answers. We have an opportunity which never existed before; worldwide lab with unlimited resources, brain power and every possible piece of equipment to test our ideas. Just think about

V

[morpher44]

and you-tube

We have an opportunity which never existed before; worldwide lab with unlimited resources, brain power and every possible piece of equipment to test our ideas. Just think about
V

Yes... exactly.
I think there is a new paradigm starting up here that is a Renaissance.
The old hierarchical business model for invention is breaking down and
being replaced by a world-mind that is struggling to organize its thoughts
and resources.

"Humanity will be like an ant heap stirred up with a stick: See the excitement coming!" - Tesla

[baroutologos]

Guys well said. really.

The case is that you cannot claim Ou and fetch specific drawings that have not the potential at OU at all.

Claim OU in nanomechanics that could operate at stochastic resonance. OK possible.
Claim OU at very high energetic states of matter. OK perhaps.. But to claim OU with a coil and a magnet and a battery, which have been replicated in muriads different setups and NOt one dare to claim so. How the ff.. we can trust those "patents" and "setups" ?

IMO, start with a setup of yours based on your understanding. Chances are much higher to reach OU instead of following patents as Bedini's, Adams etc etc

That's i am gonna do anyways..

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: the next inventor who claims OU with stupiod plain circuits, will have to bear the burden of guiding third parties at replicating the device. No replication = no possible

[boguslaw]

Hmm...there is a simple test.If million of users will try to connect to that WWW service at the same moment it surely fail to operate properly.
What if million TV sets are adjusted to the same TV signal ?

[Iotayodi]

I somewhat agree with you. But it may take these archaic coils and circuits to get to the point of understanding to move on. The whole thing revolves around manipulating the magnetic fields/spectrum and frequencys to do your bidding in my opinion. When someone can take a 4 inch crystal tube filled with water and oscillate the crystal and watch the water disappear as it blows a 4 inch hole through his roof,that's telling me something.
As a Vietnam veteran I can safely say never give up. When you do the battle is over for you.

[theremart]

Is OU from Bedini real?

I can understand your discouragement in trying to replicate the Bedini setup.


I have felt it too.


Over two years of charging/ discharging batteries I have not seen OU.

But what I have seen is my knowledge of electronics has grown by leaps and bounds and I have built a battery swapper with a pic controller, and I have picked up many skills that have been most useful to me.

I have meet with others who have struggled with the same experiences and have been able to make new friends, and.... to share with those who are just starting.

What I have gained is an effective method of desulfating batteries. I have learned some very efficient methods of charging batteries. And, I have learned of the chemistry of batteries.

Is Bedini a fake like Mylow when it comes to OU? I have no idea. But I will say he builds one heck of an amplifier that sells for high dollars. ( I used to work in a shop that sold them )

I for one am glad that OU is not easy. If it was easy then the governments would goto war with incredible energy weapons.... Yet these may be there only in hiding.

I will keep on playing with this as I am addicted, and I will also work in other areas as well. Solar power, and syngas, and windpower are all ways to get energy, slowly I hope to use them well, better than yesterday.

Mart