High Voltage from Thin Air?

[Hoppy]

Hoppy.

It seems to me from your description, that your post maybe belongs in Bedini thread for chargers. I can not see from your description that you use a SEC circuit, a one wire SEC with close to zero current consumption.



Have you studied what the principles for an operating SEC are ?

If you consider me to be wrong in my assumption, please show your diagram and explain the resemblance to the original SEC circuit.

Eric

Hi Eric

I'm not using a Bedini circuit only connecting the charging battery negative to the pos supply rail as in a Bedini SSG. The SEC circuit is clearly not the same as a Bedini SSG circuit, so it really does not belong on a Bedini thread. As I'm not using 'one wire' charging, perhaps it also does not belong here either, so I will not post anything further on this thread. Thanks for pointing out my error of judgement.

Hoppy

[Lidmotor]

SEC---She ain't no SSG folks

Hi Eric

I'm not using a Bedini circuit only connecting the charging battery negative to the pos supply rail as in a Bedini SSG. The SEC circuit is clearly not the same as a Bedini SSG circuit, so it really does not belong on a Bedini thread. As I'm not using 'one wire' charging, perhaps it also does not belong here either, so I will not post anything further on this thread. Thanks for pointing out my error of judgement.

Hoppy

@Hoppy and All
I think that anyone who has successfully built a Dr. Stiffler SEC exciter should post results here. I don't think that there are that many of us around. If you haven't built one yet and really want to, then others here will help you. I also think that any variations of the Doc's design are welcome if presented in a positive fashion. This device is NOT an SSG. It is a facinating project to build and watch in action.

Dr. Stifler asked me to post this for him after reading my comment about the MPSA06 smell when I burned them up:

"I was informed that some (maybe all) MPSA06 transistors contain Ba or Barium. I have not been able to confirm this from any manufacture literature. Ba is toxic and should not be inhaled or ingested. Unless I or someone else can find this not to be true, all should use extreme caution and be very safe (just don't blow them up). Keep all work away from the rest of the family. If anyone can find this out for sure it would help all and remove the fear or show that we must use caution"

He also asked me to post this about the LCR meter:

"Please use care in buying test equipment and one in particular is the LCR. You will need to measure down to at least 0.5uH with fair accuracy. The $15 and under $100 meters will not do this and have a test frequency that is far to low. You want a test frequency >100Hz. The ones I use are running at 750kHz. The problem is that how all good meters have a wide range. The one that are accurate in the low end do not go up to the xxmH range. So before you buy make sure if you will be happy with the low end only or you will then need two meters."

Unfortunatey I recieved his email after I had already ordered my "el cheapo" LCR meter off Ebay. Oh well. Maybe I can turn it into some kind of 'solar powered charger light' that reads out it's own inductance----badly

Lidmotor

[gmeast]

first SEC build - no air core coils this time.

Hi all,

I only wanted to get something to glow this time around. So I just used chokes with part numbers from the PDF parts list.

Lb is 10 uH.
Supply = 16.47 VDC
current: 47.4 mA (0.0474 A) that's not so good me thinks

No real heat on the NPN. I didn't get anything out of the AVplug.

Output ended up right at the PNP collector. One end of the neon was connected there and the other terminal was to my scope ground.

Below are 3 photos. They are very dark because the neon's glow was faint ....BUT IT GLOWED!... Also notice that it also keeps glowing with Rb removed. You can see Rb sitting on the table in the second protoboard picture The last photo is a scope capture showing only 80 Volts out which is why the neon barely glowed.

Next I'll wind some inductors. Enjoy,

Greg

-showing neon glowing off of NPN collector


-showing neon still blowing with Rb removed (on desk in front of protoboard)


-showing scope capture showing enemic output voltage (80 volt spikes)

[amigo]

gmeast,

that's good if your Rb can be unplugged and the circuit is still working.

Now just replace the Lb with a variable coil since this shows that you need to fine tune the frequency to get it to the sweet spot.

Even winding a coil over a ferrite slug without the form will work for a test. Or you can make a form over a slug with a strip of paper rolled around it. Use gluestick to harden the paper, it works pretty well.

I make all of my air coil bodies like that...

[gmeast]

sweet spot

gmeast,

that's good if your Rb can be unplugged and the circuit is still working.

Now just replace the Lb with a variable coil since this shows that you need to fine tune the frequency to get it to the sweet spot.

Even winding a coil over a ferrite slug without the form will work for a test. Or you can make a form over a slug with a strip of paper rolled around it. Use gluestick to harden the paper, it works pretty well.

I make all of my air coil bodies like that...

Hi,

Thanks, that's next,

Greg

[samedsoft]

SEC Simulation

Dear All,

Did anybody tried to simulate SEC in a simulator?

If yes, can you share the project file here?

and also can anybody suggest the best platform to simulate SEC?

I know in some programs you can draw hybrid stuff, lets say schematic + 3D coil or sphere with material properties and integrate em.

I think it was MW studio or Ansys.. Cant remember.

It will be very nice to compare phsical and simulation results ha?

@Lattice333

Can you tell how do you achieve lower current consumtion?

Bless you all..

Nuri, Turkey!

[Tecstatic]

This is weird !

amigo
So are we looking at a 1/4 or 1/2 or full wave with the SGate, and is the geometry affecting the performance? Do we have points of high and low impedance causing the potential gradient (hmm that sounds so Bearden like)? Is the ground connection creating a node on the SGate? Are these Longitudinal oscillations (for a Scalar/Standing wave, wouldn't the wave have to reflect first or have two opposing waves)? Am I blabbering non-sense here?

@amigo
Sorry for my late answer, I wanted to see the thread "stabilize" before further posting.
I'm very sorry that it seems Doc decided to post no more.
I hope Doc has left enough knowledge to go on from here, I really hope for us deadly persons it is possible to continue. (maybe I should speak for myself only, to be polite)

"Am I blabbering non-sense here?"
I don't think so, although I'm not sure in the absence of full understanding.

So now it may be my turn blabbering

I have been through a lot of mind boggling with the SGate. I do my very best to get an understanding. So far with with results not meeting my (high) expectations.

I have got some RF books to learn more, so my analog knowledge could be extended to RF frequencies.

After reading a few sentences in one of the books I got an idea not related to what I read.

I made some drawings to get my thoughts on paper, then I tried some adjustments.

I got my best result so far with near blinding light at 9,5V and 25mA and 30 LEDs.

I would then make some more changes, so I removed one power supply wire and short circuited my 2200uF/50V capacitor to avoid destroying my MPSA06.

I then touched the end of a 9 cm short test wire connected to the end of the 15 LEDs in the AV plug LED bank closest to the SGate. I use the test wire to get the same brightness as in the other bank a little further away from the SGate.

I noticed a weak faint light from the bank connected to the test wire. That faint light I have often seen with a cap voltage of 2-6 volts.

I did not short the cap completely I thought, and shorted the cap again. The light disappeared, but resumed when I removed the short. I tried once more, same result.

Then I measured the cap voltage, it was 46mV, yes 0,046 Volts !

While I took the reading, the voltage increased. I considered it some remaining charge in the cap.

I connected an aluminum cylinder to the end of the test wire, now the voltage will stop increasing I thought, now the LEDs are lighting.

But no, it kept rising, and after half an hour it was now up to 0,2 Volts, after 1 hours light being brighter than in the beginning the voltage is 0,22V still rising.

The only connection to the SEC circuit is an earth wire, I have turned off all instruments and the power supply.

After approx. 10 minutes the cap wires was hot being able to make weak light in a LED holding one wire and touching the cap wire with the other end.

With a higher cap voltage the cap was no longer "hot".

What I have found is an indication, that I have to build a new SGate, as I think my SGate is a poor design. Hope I'm right on this.

I has now been lighting for approx. 3 hours, and the voltage seems to stabilize at 0,235V after the initial 46mV, while emitting weak light from 15 LEDs, and still rising slowly in voltage. The other 15 LEDs are also connected, but they do not light unless I touch one end of the LED string.

If it still lights tomorrow I must fully agree with DrStiffler that
"A properly working SGate is a fantastic interface to the 'Energy Lattice' ".
even though I'm sure I have not seen the full potential.

This is weird.

Eric

[samedsoft]

Eric,

Do you remember on Doctors web site, there was voltage doubler system sometimes ago..

You apply SEC on it and Doctor related how BW was related to the gain.

As wide as as your trigger signal, you will have more gain...

So he attached S-gate rather than caps on the AV-plug.

Because S-gate was bigger and massy cap ha?

Will you guys please comment on my post? I know everybody pissed on me but we need to come together and solve this SEC issue....

Don't we Doctor?

http://www.erelteknik.com/SEC/MULTI-AV+SEC.JPG

[Tecstatic]

Yes we do (in the absence of Doc)

Eric,

Will you guys please comment on my post? I know everybody pissed on me but we need to come together and solve this SEC issue....

Don't we Doctor?

My uncle told me when I was a kid, that we are all human, and humans makes mistakes.
The trick he said, is to learn from our mistakes and not repeat the same mistakes.

I'm confident, that when you start working with the SEC circuit and report your findings, everything will be OK.

Eric

[gmeast]

sec on 9 volt battery

Hi,

I finished investigating my first SEC using only chokes ... no custom coils. My initial attempt (see posting) did not get anything from the AV Plug, but now I have good output from that.

It seemed more important to light up a neon lamp than a bunch of diodes.

I re-oriented some parts, identified a problem with the protoboard and made an unimpressive video showing what I did. I hope it is entertaining.

Greg

Here's the video:

YouTube - first sec

[Tecstatic]

Great to see you join the work !

Hi,

I finished investigating my first SEC using only chokes ... no custom coils. My initial attempt (see posting) did not get anything from the AV Plug, but now I have good output from that.

It seemed more important to light up a neon lamp than a bunch of diodes.

I re-oriented some parts, identified a problem with the protoboard and made an unimpressive video showing what I did. I hope it is entertaining.

Greg

Here's the video:

YouTube - first sec

Hi Greg

Great you built the SEC and got it working. Keep up the good work, and you will be rewarded with more exciting findings

Eric

[Tecstatic]

Some SGate design thoughts to share.

Here I will present some of the thoughts that has been bogging me for some days.

Feel free to be the first utilizing the ideas, if your may find them worthy your time.

I made a simulation model of the SGate but I never simulated it, as the understanding of the workings was not OK, although i think the model could produce some results.

Instead I came to the conclusion I needed two models.

First I will discus the sound properties of a metal bar, because it in a way resembles the SGate, at least as I see it.

Please refer to the attached picture fig. a, zoom in if you can not see it in your browser or image viewer, it should be readable:

Here the metal bar is resting on some cloth which dampens sound vibrations in the bar. When I ping the bar with some piece of metal, the natural tone of the bar can be heard, but the sound very quickly dies, ie. the resonating system has a low Q value. Having a low Q value, a lot of energy must be added to the bar, to keep a continuous high sound level.

In fig. b two nodes for the natural vibration of the bar has been identified, and are supported on two sharp edges. Thus the damping, or shall we say loss is low, and the Q is high. A ping generates a long lasting sound, thus a small amount of energy can sustain a loud sound level from the bar.

This is a very interesting property considering our small MPSA06.

Fig. d and e are the SGate equivalents of fig. a and b.
Here the sound waves are replaced by an electrical longitudinal waves.

As I have seen up to 800Vpp the air gap in my next SGate will be 1 mm, that is OK up to almost 3000V.

All sharp edges must be rounded smootly to avoid high voltage leakage, reducing the Q value.

----------

According to Hector the energy transform can be expressed as LCR in resonance, as simple as that.
He also states that the energy source is RF.
This is shown in the first series resonant circuit in fig. f.

Bearden expresses this as a phase conjugate mirror, if I have understood it right.

----------

If the two outer "tubes" are located at current nodes, the SGate can be modeled as the second drawing in fig. f as I see it.

The trick here is to supply energy to the resonant circuit, so it is balanced and mainly supports an even number of current nodes, thus all adding up to the voltage node in the middle of the inner tube as shown in fig. c.

I have not had the time to digest Doc's writings on the single wire excited transformer, but I am surprised if he added this information by accident.

In other words, for my next build I will consider using a variation of Doc's single wire excitation circuit to supply energy from the exciter to the resonant SGate.

---------

The second model concerns the harvest of energy from the SGate. If we harvest in the wrong way we kill the resonance. In Hectors low frequency RV circuits he employs a diode plug which is non-reflecting to the source.

For RF the Avramenko plug is one option, but the way I implemented the AV plug it seem to reflect back to the source. Maybe one of you could come up with a bright idea which is non-reflecting to the source, so we don't kill the resonance.

Maybe we could also use one of Doc's transformers here, who knows.

---------

By the way after 8 hours the SEC + SGate still runs the LEDs, the cap voltage is now stable around 0,2390 Volts.

Eric

[amigo]

@Tecstatic,

Wonderful, so we both have more questions than answers. But I guess that's good as it will keep us going, looking for those answers. Some posts back I made an example of producing similar effects to SGate, without the SGate. It was replaced by capacitors, and I said that geometry might not play a role in this.

After watching a documentary about Bruce Cathie and the Earth Grid, I fell I'm changing my mind to think geometry is everything. Still more research is warranted in this direction and I shall pursue it.


@samedsoft,

Just relax, nobody is pissed off at you. It's silly to hold a grudge over things anyways.

I'm yet to try that doubler, perhaps I'll go do that now. Doc said that the diode in the middle connecting the two plugs can't be 1N4148 as that would not survive the current. If I recall correctly he used UF4007 (ultra fast). I suppose other ultra fast, or maybe avalanche, diodes would work, too.


@gmeast

Hehe, those breadboards are terrible, I totally agree. You wouldn't believe the amount of hours and days I spent trying to figure out why things don't work or why they behave in certain fashion, before realizing that the el-cheapo breadboard was causing it.

Mind you, I have three different brands of these and I've noticed that some will work, others will not, but overal the stray capacitance would wreck havoc on the circuit.

Since then I've built one circuit on the protoboard and that has worked to my great satisfaction. I think I posted a photo of it earlier in the thread. I encourage you to get one as they are cheap. I also used single-in-line socket for the component mounts which allows easy replacement.

Just in case someone wonders, this is the single-in-line (SIL) socket:

[amigo]

ZOMG again, DrStiffler is reading the thread.

Welcome back Doc.

[amigo]

@Tecstatic,

Sorry I did not see your last post as I was writing mine while you posted it.

Regarding the sharp edges, should we explore other geometries instead of cylinders then, perhaps two spheres one inside the other, with the outer sphere split into two (electrically) separate hemispheres. Heh, sounds like the popcorn ball v.2

Also, you mention 1mm gap in your future SGate, why not use some dielectric then instead of air to ensure no gaps are bridged?

You mentioned Phase Conjugate Mirror and AV plug and so after reading through your post, the two got put together in my mind with an equal sign between them.

Isn't the AV plug acting as a Phase Conjugate Mirror, and as such we actually need that effect to increase our standing wave energy?

From my understanding, the Phase Conugate Mirror does not follow the physical total reflection rules but reflects back to the source along the same vector in the opposite direction, thus creating a standing wave.

In our case don't we get the reflection but there are losses, obviously due to conductivity/impedances, etc? Although, that's good as this energy would keep growing and growing and growing if it weren't for the losses until the circuit blows up.