High Voltage from Thin Air?

[Mutten]

Mutten,

it really depends if your scope compensates for the probe or not, first of all.

The probe never affects the frequency (x axis), only the amplitude (y axis).

What you are compensating for is the higher voltage component of the signal than the lower input stage of the scope, so it does not burn it out.

Yes, 1us = 0.000001 s and so 1/0.000001 = 1,000,000 Hz = 1 MHz

Thanks Amigo, I guess what I am seeing is roughly 600khz. Wasn't sure if the 10x probe increased the resolution for div/time.

I've also noticed theres a couple of sweet spots where my scope goes nuts and I can't get the trigger to focus on a complete wave form, its just chaos all over my screen. I *think* this might be UWBO mode.

Still working on getting a spectrum analyzer. I've put some feelers out to some people that work for defense contractors that might have something in a closet collecting dust.

I'm considering picking up something like this eventually. Need to save up some funds first.

Spectrum Analyzer & Tracking Generator AT5011 1GHz - eBay (item 250399163754 end time Apr-10-09 01:41:05 PDT)

I know its a cheapo chinese one but for a hobbiest I think it might be ok. I know the Doc had an inexpensive one that he had to do some modifications to. The brand name eludes me at the moment.

[Blue_Serge]

Thank you

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I will try what has been done on overunity.com. Thanks.

[DrStiffler]

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I will try what has been done on overunity.com. Thanks.

@Blue_Serge
This is the original SEC15-3 that was the circuit on the Demo PCB's. I was build from common of the shelf components making it as simple as possible to copy and build (caution with construction circuit capacity).

I will post a current SEC15-8 in a following post.

[DrStiffler]

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I will try what has been done on overunity.com. Thanks.

@Blue_Serge
This is what one looked like if you had purchased one of the PCB's I sold last year. The one in the picture has a parasitic plate that allowed properly tuned circuits to exhibit a CEC>1.

[DrStiffler]

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I will try what has been done on overunity.com. Thanks.

@Blue_Serge
This is a SEC15-20 PCB that was available last year.

[Mutten]

Dr Stiffler you have a PM

[mlurye]

DrStiffler,
Are you going to share some of your current research?
I'm getting parts to build SEC exciter. Information on this thread is sufficient to replicate one.
I do appreciate all information that you already shared with us.
Thanks a lot!!!

[amigo]

I'm considering picking up something like this eventually. Need to save up some funds first.

Spectrum Analyzer & Tracking Generator AT5011 1GHz - eBay (item 250399163754 end time Apr-10-09 01:41:05 PDT)

I know its a cheapo chinese one but for a hobbiest I think it might be ok. I know the Doc had an inexpensive one that he had to do some modifications to. The brand name eludes me at the moment.

I bought one of these last year for $500

Avcom 65A Spectrum Analyzer-Tested-Great For TSCM L@@K - eBay (item 150336802586 end time Apr-13-09 17:10:21 PDT)

Actually mine is 65C not 65A...works great never the less and it has a much smaller footprint than most of other analyzers out there as it is a portable unit.

I think Doc has one of those AT5010s or similar in his lab - if you look at his videos you'll see.

[amigo]

Dr Stiffler you have a PM

@DrStiffler,

Yes, would you please check your PMs...I sent one as well earlier in the week.

[mlurye]

Just puted my schema together, one that posted above by DrStiffler.
And as expected it didn't work from the start. But I found interesting thing, if I was touching one leg of neon with screwdriver it was lightning up. So I attached 1 foot of wire to the neon. And now I've got constantly glowing neon. I don't think that my schema is tuned up, since I didn't do much tuning.

[Mutten]

@DrStiffler, thanks for posting the circuit and pics.

@amigo, thanks for the scope heads up.

@All, I just wanted to add some info on getting a working unit going. Its stripped down to bare essentials and made to run off a battery(s). I've removed the filter for the bench power supply. I run it off 2x12v SLA batteries for 24v, but will work fine at 12v or lower.

The basic circuit.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3088-1.jpg

All values are approximated. My LC meter doesn't have a low enough resolution. Roughly +/-1 uH.

L1 was loosely wound around the handle of a screwdriver and zip tied.
22 Turns 22 gauge magwire enamel coated.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3086.jpg

L2 wire seems pretty important. I switched from 26 to 24 gauge wire and I got a beautiful sine wave right off the start from it. Its ballpark to what doc recommends for diameter.

24 gauge magwire etc..
roughly 1.7cm diameter 3.8 cm length
63ish turns.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3083-2.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3084.jpg

Lb is the tunable coil. I bought some of those coil forms the Doc was using on the SEC15-3s but I found them to be limited. I whipped up a tunable coil just out of a bic pen and a slug I had from some PSU I stripped down.

22 guage loosely wound and superglued.
12 turns or so.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3074.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3078-1.jpg

Been having trouble finding smaller slugs than that. Inductance is what brings up your power consumption in the circuit and those ferrites eat a lot. I've found that setup gives me a nice broad frequency range to work with.

I've also used a stripped down 100uH choke I picked up from "the shack". Little bit of sandpaper inside the pen tube and on the ferrite itself and it works about the same.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3077-1.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3076-1.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3080-1.jpg

Its recommended that if you put a PCB together to get a socket for the MPSA06. They go pop quite often (at least for me.) Buy more than you think you'll need.

First succsessful lighting of the FL tubes on a breadboard. Ignore the amp meter that thing was very wrong. The MPSA06 would have gone up in flames if that was right I think the cap I was using was 22pF so if you don't have a 470 like the circuit says just try different ones.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...oo/SEC15-3.jpg

Fully socketed version for plug and play coil building. Diodes on the + and - rails were a misunderstanding on my part. I thought the docs ferrite bead chokes were diodes. Didn't seem to affect the circuit.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3024.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3027.jpg

First populated PCB once I had some values to work with from the plug and play. L2 is 26gauge wire, use 24 if you can. I think amigo explained why in earlier in the thread. Transistor is still socketed.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3058.jpg

Hope this helps people get started since there seems to be some interest growing.

P.S. Look for On Semi's or Fairchilds for MPSA06's.

[Jules Tresor]

What mass has to do with it ?

Hi guys,

I found a nice replication video of Dr's circuit
YouTube - Dr Stiffler SEC - series 5

and it works next to the laptop, but it's a less than 1.5W power SEC


@Luc
Hi man,
What were your conclusions on Dr's circuit?

Have you tried his latest discovery of the fact that adding MASS will allow for more energy recovery ?

Exciting MASS like in Newman motors with the mass of copper, like in Bedini systems with the mass of electrolyte in the batteries or electrolytic capacitors ...

see here: YouTube - Building Blocks #2

So muuuuuch light for less than 1.5 Watt of input power ...


@Dr Stiffler
Dear Doctor, I found your new page at http://67.76.235.52/index.htm and I wanted to ask you if you could sell also a download able version of your CDs for non US residents ?

Of course it would increase your sells as many foreigners are appreciating your work.

You could use the cheap service at E-junkie Shopping Cart for selling downloads & tangible goods to make your files available for download while paid with Paypal. (I'm using it with full satisfaction for my own business)

I sent you an email asking to buy a SEC 15 board, but it might be that you didn't get it among your sea of emails ... pleaaaaaase let me get one or two of these boards for history. (I can pay via Paypal but you'll have to send it overseas)

Anyway keep on the good work all !
God blessings,
MDG

[DrStiffler]

@DrStiffler, thanks for posting the circuit and pics.

@amigo, thanks for the scope heads up.

@All, I just wanted to add some info on getting a working unit going. Its stripped down to bare essentials and made to run off a battery(s). I've removed the filter for the bench power supply. I run it off 2x12v SLA batteries for 24v, but will work fine at 12v or lower.

The basic circuit.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3088-1.jpg

All values are approximated. My LC meter doesn't have a low enough resolution. Roughly +/-1 uH.

L1 was loosely wound around the handle of a screwdriver and zip tied.
22 Turns 22 gauge magwire enamel coated.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3086.jpg

L2 wire seems pretty important. I switched from 26 to 24 gauge wire and I got a beautiful sine wave right off the start from it. Its ballpark to what doc recommends for diameter.

24 gauge magwire etc..
roughly 1.7cm diameter 3.8 cm length
63ish turns.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3083-2.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3084.jpg

Lb is the tunable coil. I bought some of those coil forms the Doc was using on the SEC15-3s but I found them to be limited. I whipped up a tunable coil just out of a bic pen and a slug I had from some PSU I stripped down.

22 guage loosely wound and superglued.
12 turns or so.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3074.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3078-1.jpg

Been having trouble finding smaller slugs than that. Inductance is what brings up your power consumption in the circuit and those ferrites eat a lot. I've found that setup gives me a nice broad frequency range to work with.

I've also used a stripped down 100uH choke I picked up from "the shack". Little bit of sandpaper inside the pen tube and on the ferrite itself and it works about the same.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3077-1.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3076-1.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3080-1.jpg

Its recommended that if you put a PCB together to get a socket for the MPSA06. They go pop quite often (at least for me.) Buy more than you think you'll need.

First succsessful lighting of the FL tubes on a breadboard. Ignore the amp meter that thing was very wrong. The MPSA06 would have gone up in flames if that was right I think the cap I was using was 22pF so if you don't have a 470 like the circuit says just try different ones.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...oo/SEC15-3.jpg

Fully socketed version for plug and play coil building. Diodes on the + and - rails were a misunderstanding on my part. I thought the docs ferrite bead chokes were diodes. Didn't seem to affect the circuit.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3024.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3027.jpg

First populated PCB once I had some values to work with from the plug and play. L2 is 26gauge wire, use 24 if you can. I think amigo explained why in earlier in the thread. Transistor is still socketed.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...SEC15-3058.jpg

Hope this helps people get started since there seems to be some interest growing.

P.S. Look for On Semi's or Fairchilds for MPSA06's.

@Mutten

There are a couple of ways (simple in fact) to stop the loss of the transistors and to stop the loss of transistor Beta over time. Additionally there is a simple fix to stabilize frequency. Most important is the input (source voltage) and as I stated the SEC effect can be seem as low as a couple volts. I have run the simple 15 as high as 24 volts, but that is walking on glass. My preferred and the voltage used on Generation Two exciters as well as ESEC is 16 or 18 volts.

The high voltage generated is just to high above 18 and in addition to blowing the CB junction the heat generation is always positive and CEC will be <70%. I hinted at how you can see what is doing the damage by monitoring both the + and - rails at the same time and looking for a difference, you will always see a big offset when your transistor blows.

With you running totally from battery and if I read correctly you removed the rail filters?, you will find the batteries to be very RF Hot. In fact when properly tuned you could do something similar to what Aromaz did in one of his videos where he could light a neon off the insulating surface of the battery. You can wind a simple sniffer coil, about the same as your L2 and connect it to your scope (through the 10X probe) and use it to sniff around your circuit, coils and battery. This way you will get a far better picture than any direct connect that I have always objected to unless you have some very good and expensive probes, which in fact still upset the circuit somewhat.

The sniffer coil and a simple AV Plug and White LED as shown on a few of my videos will also show you more about what is taking place.

I do not recommend running without power rail filtering, even with the batteries. Also another way to approach tuning is with a AM radio or a SW that will cover up to say 12MHz. You can find some very interesting things this way, and use caution as you can cause problems with people around you (electronics, watches, pacemakers etc.).

You ask about sending me a PM, I did not use the OU forum mail and prefer not to use this one either, email is the best way and what I stay with. If you expect info that is not published in public you will have to do like many others have and setup your email with a certificate.

[DrStiffler]

Thanks Amigo, I guess what I am seeing is roughly 600khz. Wasn't sure if the 10x probe increased the resolution for div/time.

I've also noticed theres a couple of sweet spots where my scope goes nuts and I can't get the trigger to focus on a complete wave form, its just chaos all over my screen. I *think* this might be UWBO mode.

Still working on getting a spectrum analyzer. I've put some feelers out to some people that work for defense contractors that might have something in a closet collecting dust.

I'm considering picking up something like this eventually. Need to save up some funds first.

Spectrum Analyzer & Tracking Generator AT5011 1GHz - eBay (item 250399163754 end time Apr-10-09 01:41:05 PDT)

I know its a cheapo chinese one but for a hobbiest I think it might be ok. I know the Doc had an inexpensive one that he had to do some modifications to. The brand name eludes me at the moment.

@Mutten
I would not advise you obtain the AT5011 SA. I have two of them and both required far more work to make them useful than ever should have been. (In case someone thinks I am talking against this product I have all the documentation to back up my statements, so don't get to excited).

The first unit would not run for more than a an hour and would go off. It was poor metal work and the running of wires thru rough holes with metal sharp edges that caused a short when heated. The case and chassis was not square and extensive metal work was needed to correct. The oscillators are fair, but have a high drift. There are no cursors so its like the old scope days where you count divisions and do the math.

The second unit radiated a signal that would swamp low level measurements. I complained for where I purchased and received a response that the manufacture did not care as people were buying as they were (well I stupidly did).

Just don't go there...................

[DrStiffler]

DrStiffler,
Are you going to share some of your current research?
I'm getting parts to build SEC exciter. Information on this thread is sufficient to replicate one.
I do appreciate all information that you already shared with us.
Thanks a lot!!!

@mlurye

"Are you going to share some of your current research?"

Not the way most will like. No more web sites with circuits. I will have about five Papers out soon, I need to get a crumb of respect back after stupidly playing with the OU.com crowd and another site that is composed of Vane Has Beens.

I was looking and started the CD thing and now have thought better of that. It places me in the same slot as all the others that talk and promise and always have a new version, yet contains only historical rework.

I do have 10 different flavors of circuits boards sitting and waiting for assembly and release, these will be explained on the SS Site as an offering, BUT, the circuits have progressed to the point where they are priced a bit high. They have sockets for critical parts (a socket costs 30x more than a transistor) multiple functionality running from the simple (yet protected) SEC15 to a combo SEC15 ESEC and on to an Electrolyzer for the burning water as shown on one of my videos.

Nothing will ship outside of the US, sorry it makes many very mad and upset, but its not my decision. Not circuits will be sold with any specific claim, one will need to match a Paper with a circuit to know what is being offered. The circuits range (with shipping in US) from forty to a few hundred. For a bit of history I lost my a__ on the SEC15's as I did not plan on making changes such as sockets mid way through the offering. I had never planned to make money, but I did not enjoy the loss either. I break even on the new offerings because I have factors in sockets, headers and heat sinks.

In short it is moved from the simple hobby stage.

The 'Spatial Light' is moving forward as a commercial product sold for outdoor use, like hunters and campers or rural location lighting.