computer fan sg motor

[**~Imhotep~**]

I am currently working on basic sg motor, and wanting to eventually do the small computer fan one but cant find any details about how that one was implemented ex : what size coil, where to position it, where to put the magnets on the fan..ect ect. Is there any links to any schematics so i can see some examples of how some of put these together. any help would be appreciated. thanx

[gmeat]

I am currently working on basic sg motor, and wanting to eventually do the small computer fan one but cant find any details about how that one was implemented ex : what size coil, where to position it, where to put the magnets on the fan..ect ect. Is there any links to any schematics so i can see some examples of how some of put these together. any help would be appreciated. thanx

Hi Imhotep,

Here's a link that should help ya out.Good luck and have fun experimenting.

John Bedini Monopole Mechanical Oscillator Simplified School Girl SSG Presentation


-Gary

[ren]

Here is Ricks diagram from the Bedini Monopole3 Forums. I suggest you also join there as others may have asked the same questions.

There are a number of variations to the theme, you can opt to tie all coils together in series and run off one transistor (this would reqire bifilar winding) or series opposite coils and use one set for trigger and the other for power, which is probably easier. Try about 500 turns of a fine gauge (30awg -34 awg?) or count turns until the core is full. Bigger fan will be easier to wind, and make sure all windings are wound the same way.

There are variations of this circuit employing a SCR and cap, but stick to the basics until you have it running. You can fabricate your own from scratch (see this vid I made for an example YouTube - pulse motor) but the fan is a good idea because everything is prefab'd and will be alot more accurate.

[Jetijs]

YouTube - Fan mod with SSG circuit
here is my Fan mod with Ricks circuit. I used only one transistor. Two power coils were connected in series and I used only one pole with smaller gauge wire for triggering. This leaves the fourth pole unused and you can use it as an isolated recovery coil for example

[theremart]

RE: Fan

There is an excellent demo of how to do this on google video..,.

Fan.wmv

Rick shows tear down, and every step.

[ashtweth]

YouTube - Fan mod with SSG circuit
here is my Fan mod with Ricks circuit. I used only one transistor. Two power coils were connected in series and I used only one pole with smaller gauge wire for triggering. This leaves the fourth pole unused and you can use it as an isolated recovery coil for example

Hi Jetijs, Dam that was movin fast! what input did you have on it, 24volt? i see you had a tiny 1.3aH battery on the charge?

Whilst we are all showing off our fan kits
Here is ours, i am in the middle of filming it charging TWO batteries of the same capacity as the input whilst operating the fan ATM, yup it does it! how can that be? wait and see


Dual Bedini Fan kit conept

[Jetijs]

Well, today I tried to convert a fan so that it runs on a basic SSG setup, but this time I wanted to use all the recovered energy in a capacitor on primary side (like Peter showed in electric motor secrets thread) rather than in a charging battery. I used one fan pole for a trigger winding of fine wire. Second and third pole was wound with about 80 turns of AWG24 wire. The remaining pole was left unused. This way I had a trigger coil, a power coil and a recovery coil with a bridge rectifier on the output. The fan run nicely, but the neon was flashing as if the recovery coil was not attached to a charging battery. Tried many things, even a neon bulb on the recovery winding would not light up. I am convinced that this is just because of the stator core geometry. I will try to use bifilar windings tomorrow.

[Jetijs]

Hello.
Today I tried some other fan mod setups. I found some more ways how it does not work First of all I found that if you use a thinner wire on one pole for the trigger coil, you can not use the pole on the other end for power windings. You have to use the next pole near the trigger pole on either side. Here is what I mean:



Ok. Anyway, I used one fan pole for trigger winding and the next one for power/recovery coils wound in bifilar way. At first I got the fan to run at the basic SSG circuit, leaving the recovery coil unused. Everything worked fine. Then I connected the recovery winding to the iput capacitor via a diode, like I do with my attraction motor. The neon was not flashing, that means thet the capacitor is absorbing the spikes, but I did not see any difference in amp draw. This is odd. Any ideas about what is wrong? I thought about this and came to conclusion that maybe the magnets are causing this, because Peter said that in order to get the BEMF to work along the input power, you need only electromagnets and no permanent magnets so that both magnetic fields do not interfere with each other. Might this be the cause?
This is the circuit I used:



The blue is the trigger winding, the red one is the power winding and the green one is the recovery winding.

Thanks,
Jetijs

[gmeat]

Hello.
Today I tried some other fan mod setups. I found some more ways how it does not work First of all I found that if you use a thinner wire on one pole for the trigger coil, you can not use the pole on the other end for power windings. You have to use the next pole near the trigger pole on either side. Here is what I mean:



Ok. Anyway, I used one fan pole for trigger winding and the next one for power/recovery coils wound in bifilar way. At first I got the fan to run at the basic SSG circuit, leaving the recovery coil unused. Everything worked fine. Then I connected the recovery winding to the iput capacitor via a diode, like I do with my attraction motor. The neon was not flashing, that means thet the capacitor is absorbing the spikes, but I did not see any difference in amp draw. This is odd. Any ideas about what is wrong? I thought about this and came to conclusion that maybe the magnets are causing this, because Peter said that in order to get the BEMF to work along the input power, you need only electromagnets and no permanent magnets so that both magnetic fields do not interfere with each other. Might this be the cause?
This is the circuit I used:



The blue is the trigger winding, the red one is the power winding and the green one is the recovery winding.

Thanks,
Jetijs

Hi Jetijs,

I personally always wondered about the SSG trigger coil and the power coil being on the same coil together,As I think that somehow they interfere with each other but I'm not as advanced on the subject as say yourself and other members like Peter and well, probably most of ya's .My question is do you find that you can charge the secondary battery as well or better than the standard SSG circuit?.Thx for any input and keep up the good work .

-Gary

[ren]

Interesting tests Jet, I have some theories about it but I am not totally clear with them yet so I wont bother posting. I found 2 largish 24 volt fans to play with yesterday, so Ill try some things out.

[Jetijs]

Hi Jetijs,
.My question is do you find that you can charge the secondary battery as well or better than the standard SSG circuit?.Thx for any input and keep up the good work

-Gary

Hi Gary
I haven't really palyed with fans for enough time to answer your question. I just made a few small tests to see if it will run on the Bedini circuit and it does. I can just say that the charging seemed very good, as far I could observe on these short tests. I believe Rick even managed to make the fan work so that he could just swap the batteries when the primary went down. And he could do this as long as he wanted, even months. But as far as I know, he used the cap pulser setup for this.

[ren]

Jet from my understanding Rick had an scr/cap setup on the back end, but it was not pulsed. I could be wrong, but that is the schematic I have seen and studying his pics I can see no 555 timer or opto isolator.

My latest build employs this technique, with the scr on the positive leg (Ricks was on the negative I think) and I wonder if this qualifies as a conversion of the radiant which allows for battery swapping. The cap converts the high voltage and is an extension of the dipole, it usually hovers at a volt over the charge battery. Ill make a little video to show it today.

[gmeat]

Jet from my understanding Rick had an scr/cap setup on the back end, but it was not pulsed. I could be wrong, but that is the schematic I have seen and studying his pics I can see no 555 timer or opto isolator.

My latest build employs this technique, with the scr on the positive leg (Ricks was on the negative I think) and I wonder if this qualifies as a conversion of the radiant which allows for battery swapping. The cap converts the high voltage and is an extension of the dipole, it usually hovers at a volt over the charge battery. Ill make a little video to show it today.

Hi Ren,


I can confirm what you're saying about the cap voltage sitting about 1 volt above the battery and I may add that a second cap at least for me sits about 4-5 volts above the batttery.The thing I'm not sure about is I'm using 2 caps with the + coming off the 1n4007 to the 1st cap than to the 2nd cap than to the battery, Ok thats normal to me,What's a little abnormal to me is I'm experimenting with the - side in that I have the 1st cap with a 1n4007 so as to not let the electric flow to the cap but it can flow out to the second cap and to the battery.The 2nd cap is wired normallly.So my question is how can I get a reading on my 1st cap with the diode facing the wrong way so to speak? .thx for the input.


-Gary

[ashtweth]

Hi Gary
I haven't really palyed with fans for enough time to answer your question. I just made a few small tests to see if it will run on the Bedini circuit and it does. I can just say that the charging seemed very good, as far I could observe on these short tests. I believe Rick even managed to make the fan work so that he could just swap the batteries when the primary went down. And he could do this as long as he wanted, even months. But as far as I know, he used the cap pulser setup for this.

Hi Jetijs, if you can give me an idea how you hook up the Cap pulser to the Fan kit (In laymen's) then i can try the 4 battery? swapper for you, i have 4 conditioned batteries and a fan kit here.

Ash

[Jetijs]

Ren,
I found such a triggering way:
http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/thumbs/...de-trigger.gif

I am not really sure how it works and what diode parameters are affecting the voltage at which the SCR triggers. Maybe someone can explain?

Anyway, if we decide to use this triggering method, then I figured that we could use such a circuit:


This is if we want to use a separate recovery coil. But then I found Ricks original circuit which in simplified view is something like this:



This way we do not have to use a separate recovery winding, this gives more space for more power windings which is good. You can see that the primary battery negative terminal is connected to capacitor negative terminal and the cap ir pulsed on the negative recovery battery lead. This new triggering way has intrigued me, I will try to replicate this. It is said that capacitor value should be at least 300V and the SCR must be rated for 800V 5A or something like this. Also with the basic fan mod I found out that this circuit does not act exactly like a simple SSG monopole. I suggest to use a high wattage 1K pot on the base, because I burned manu of 1/4W pots with the basic circuit. Also the 2W resistors are getting quite hot. So, Ash, I would be glad if you tried this out. I will also do this and then we can compare the results