Roto Verter

[nilrehob]

I just wanted bump this thread up
since I started my RV-project some time ago:
YouTube - RV part 1, introduction
The progress is slow but there are 5 videos so far.

/Hob

[Tecstatic]

@adee

Keep on the good work

Try this.
Referring to your homepage:
RV - NewInThePast ‎(New In The Past)‎

First remove all external wires on your alternator.

The WYE connection of the motor coils are correct.

Connect a bulb between point 4 and 12.

Start, if the voltage across the bulb is zero, then your coils matches well, and without hurting yourself try try shorting 4 to 12, if the RPM does not reduce, make the short 4 to 12 permanent.

If the coils don't match, break connections 1 to 7, 2 to 8 and 3 to 9, and 4 to 12.

Remove the bulb between 4 and 12.

Connect your variable capacitor bank to points 3 and 6.

Start and tune to resonance.

Stop and put capacitors the found value, one cap to 2 and 5, and one cap to 1 and 4,

Start again, and re tune the variable bank, if it is still the same you are done with tuning, else replace the two other caps to the same value.

Now you have it tuned,

Stop.

Remove the cap wire from point 3 and series insert your bulb socket without a bulb. Now the bulb socket connects the cap to point 3. Add a contact parallel to the bulb. Turn on the contact.

Start and measure the current through the contact with a clamp meter.

Just as an example say you measure 10 Amps.

If you use a 110V bulb it must then be 10Amps * 110Volts = 1100W

If you don't have a bulb matching your actual calculation add more bulb sockets parallel to the first one, Put in bulbs so the sum of their nominal amps match your calculation.

Start and then switch off your contact, the bulb(s) should now light full intensity, adding the bulb may detune slightly, re tune if necessary.

stop

Add contacts and bulbs the same for the remaining 2 phases, one at a time. if it detunes do some iterations by replacing with fixed capacitors and move the capacitor box to another coil to test tuning.

Good luck !

Eric

[Tecstatic]

I didn't give any diagram because it is the standard rotoverter configuration by Hector, powered from the grid (230V 50 Hz) through a variac (regulated transformer from 0 to 285V), noting else. One phase to A terminal of the motor, C terminal to the ground and a capacitor from A to B terminal. Star configuration of the windings.

The black box is the capacitor box (from 0.15 do 160 microF). The round thing on the left of this box is the variac, it was used to regulate the voltage going to the motor. No PWM or frequency regulation. Only the voltage and the capacitance. So, typical, normal, simple rotoverter.

After doing thousands of experiments with rotoverter like configurations ( Index of /laboratorio/esploroj/rv ) I have come to conclusion that the construction and material used of the motor is a very important factor. This is the fist motor that I could go so low with the power consumption. With other motors the lowest I could go was 14 W.

Please try taking a look on my posts and see if it makes sense to you regarding your tests of different motors.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post55636

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post55754

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post55865

Maybe it can help understanding why your motors does not perform the same...
To my understanding the coil wire represents 1/4 wave length and harmonics thereof, thus defining the "reception frequencies", but if no external energy is present at those frequencies, you gain nothing. Luckily there always seems to be some gain, but not all frequencies are equally good, as seen by DrStiffler in his SEC experiments.

Eric

[sciencisto]

standard rotoverter configuration

I didn't give any diagram because it is the standard rotoverter configuration by Hector, powered from the grid (230V 50 Hz) through a variac (regulated transformer from 0 to 285V), noting else. One phase to A terminal of the motor, C terminal to the ground and a capacitor from A to B terminal. Star configuration of the windings.

The black box is the capacitor box (from 0.15 do 160 microF). The round thing on the left of this box is the variac, it was used to regulate the voltage going to the motor. No PWM or frequency regulation. Only the voltage and the capacitance. So, typical, normal, simple rotoverter.

After doing thousands of experiments with rotoverter like configurations ( rotoverter on 4 W ) I have come to conclusion that the construction and material used of the motor is a very important factor. This is the fist motor that I could go so low with the power consumption. With other motors the lowest I could go was 14 W.

[Tecstatic]

Congratulations with a great result !

Hi,

I have toyed a bit with the rotoverter myself, And I'm impressed you have results like Hector says is possible.

Although you have made the video and the pictures, I'm not sure what your circuit is.

Does the black box hold a frequency drive and caps, and have you played with voltage, frequency and pulse duration to get this impressive result, or is it a plain rotoverter ?

Are you willing to share your diagram ?

Eric

[sciencisto]

rotoverter on less thatn 4 W

You can call this „saving energy” when running a motor idle in rotoverter configuration.
A 5.5 kW motor at 50 Hz or 6.6 kW at 60 Hz (8.8 hp) runs on less than 4 W real power on one phase, so theoretically it can be run from a 1.5 V battery.

To achieve such result the motor bearings have to be well cleaned and slightly lubricated, the fan and the gaskets have to be removed. This motor shaft stops turning ~ 2.5 minutes after the power is switched off.

This film shows the data: ~3 W on the watt meter (the active range is 100 W), when drawing 0,21A on the amp meter (left) and 20.14 V on the volt meter):
http://filmoj.info/laboratorio/esplo...4/P1040484.MOV
more pictures in:
Index of /laboratorio/esploroj/rv/RV_04

[revizal]

RV-Test load

Hi All,

Here is the test load of my last RV-Setup.

YouTube - RV 2HP 3 PH Motor-Test Load

Rev.

[ashtweth]

Thx, for those links guys, Great Vid Mart very professionally done, i am glad you didnt give up on this right away, we are working towards getting the extraction circuits tested this year, so its nice to know your rig will be there waiting when we crack it.

Now you should be able to get that free wheeling draw down, try tuning the run cap a bit, don't forget when you increase the frequency the capacitance that's needed will be LOWER.

Ash

[esaruoho]

circuit | MERLib.org

[esaruoho]

(trying to get stuff right in my head, reply if it goes wrong and point me right)
Virtual current / VAR circulating in the circuit can be extracted with a sinewave peak extraction circuit. This circuit has to date not been built by any of the replicators that have posted their VAR results, or so it would appear. Austin Adee got to VAR, Samul Penttilä got to VAR, and various others, some on Overunity etc have got to VAR and then either explained it away as a measurement error (Samuli Penttilä, on this page ), or as something that should be built a circuit to extract (Austin Adee, on this site ("Problems: I cant 'extract' or 'use' this power yet, but i haven't gotten a resistive load equal to the resonance of the alternator. I can, however turn the lights on for a brief moment (80 watts)")))) .. So Samuli found with his oscilloscope shots that the virtual circulating current or VAR is out of phase by .. 90 degrees? .. he wrote "Sitten kun joku keksii laitteen, jolla saadaan generaattorin ulostulon jännite ja virta samanvaiheiseksi itse generaattorin siitä häiriintymättä, ollaan jäljillä." - "When someone figures out how the generator's outside voltage and current can be made into the same phase, without the generator getting harassed by it, then we are in the path of progress"). anyway, i've been sending samuli the circuits imagery this way and that way but for some reason they haven't gotten built.

so now its up to anyone basically to go and find the required information to be able to create a peak-extraction circuit that takes the exact peaks of the power and gets the out-of-phaseness out of it by phasecorrection. i see Konehead has always suggested a Full Wave Bridge Rectifier to be used in the various extraction circuits.
this is where the finn got, and then gave up. i dont know why this happens. how many sinewave peak extraction circuits are there, and should there perhaps be a person who builds them and sends them out to these who have verified virtual current but haven't then done anything about it further.
Doug Konzen said, in addition to this diagram picture:

"Here is a way to charge battery from a rotovertor AC motor, and the pulsing to the charge battery only occurs at the peaks of the sinewave feeding the AC motor, which makes it "non-reflective" to the amperage draw of the motor while charging the charge battery."

-- from what ive been reading on evgray it seems that some circuits there has to be two of, in order to be non-reflective back to the motor/alternator rotoverter setup. so theres something that the running device does, that you want to extract, and immediately say "GOTCHA! not letting you back into the circuit, you go HERE now!". and this timing so that the current that is extracted is not reflected/returned back into the motor/alternator RV setup and the capacitors and the lot, is required to be made sure that there are no .. losses in the rotoverter itself and it doesnt hiccup?

the Deliverance circuit in the EVGRAY yahoogroup in the files, a "light-trigger or a similar with a trigger-trafo off run-capacitor, which is phase sensing sine-wave-peaks.." a-ha. well, there's info in the RV compilations, which are here. Ok, Deliverance Circuit, in that RV pdf, and also in the files of EVGray yahoogroups.

Konehead posted in august 2008 this:
"RV sinewave peak trigger" - This is simple circuit that triggers a mosfet charging battery only at sinewave peaks of AC signal feeding AC motor for "non-reflective" power output. and a further description is "Bug-zapper transformer across run cap phase senses sinewave peaks" - and that seems to be this: picture. so, back to the desc: "Here is a way to charge battery from a rotovertor AC motor, and the pulsing to the charge battery only occurs at the peaks of the sinewave feeding the AC motor, which makes it "non-reflective" to the amperage draw of the motor while charging the charge battery."


well, maybe the circuit will be built! maybe the other peak-extraction circuits will also be built.

[theremart]

Update on rotoverter.

YouTube - Video 60 Rotoverter with Wagar inverter

Completed hack on wagar inverter. I have noticed that not only frequency changes with this hack but so does voltage.

[esaruoho]

Adee's Rotoverter page
Adee's Rotoverter report

[cody]

I apologize if these have already come up, i havnt been following this thread. Here are two great videos from konehead on the basic conversion of a rotoverter. I would say its worth a watch if you are thinking about making one.
YouTube - Rotoverter Conversion Demonstration Part 1
YouTube - Rotoverter Conversion Demonstration Part 2

[ashtweth]

WEll done Rev!!! This is a good start, there is some good VARS there to extract, Kone gave some great advice there on you tube about a solution to output the load from the alternator ONLY at the AC sinewave PEAKS FEEDING the motor.

The best START to understand this and master it (then to move on to
higher power extraction) is in the deliverance circuit in EVGRAY in
files with light-trigger or similar with trigger-trafo off run cap
phase sensing sine wave peaks. Its also backed up in the RV
compilations. REV let me know if you cannot find it ill show you.

With your RV water pump, you can also run it in "DC humping AC" mode
which is included in the uni RV course document. This can give you
more torque till you get a frequency drive there, or hack an inverter.

Hector prefers the 7.5 60 hertz baldors, but you can still get some good virtual to extract with those motors. Rev very impressive man.

[revizal]

New setup based on original doc

Hi Ash,

Based on your previous suggestion due to friction and slip at rubber belting, I made a setup like original RV documentation. Last 2HP 3PH motor drive on PM saft directly and I got more power on saft. Thanks for your helping me.
Here is the vid link:

YouTube - RV-Coupling on Saft 2HP 3PH motor head to head

Rev.