The bistander thread

[bistander]

Nice try. Once again you avoid all the questions I ask, so I will return the favor.

Picked up the generator today. Everything looks REALLY good, but I won't know for sure until I get it back together. Will be working on THAT project tomorrow and may post some video. If they actually returned all the parts I sent, I should be fine. On the way home I began to worry that I didn't see the power supply to run the RPM meter or the one to run the motor. That could be a problem. But I wasn't the only one loading boxes in the car, so maybe they are both in there somewhere.

You say "Nice try. Once again you avoid all the questions I ask, so I will return the favor."

You base a question on a false premise, like a premise that I have said something which I have not said, so I ask you to prove your premise. You refuse to because it is a lie. You attempt to use falsehoods and lies to avoid truth and reality.

As to your question as to why I haven't built your stuff and tested for myself, I answered numerous times. I don't build things which I know won't work. There are a few exceptions, bit the majority of your junk is obvious. Again, you make the extraordinary claim, you must provide proof. Otherwise it is just another lie. I have, as anyone has, every right to challenge your claim. And a challenger is not required, or expected, to disprove your claim. That's how the real world functions. bi

[BroMikey]

BYE thinks it is Dave's job to convince him beyond any shadow of any doubt that Dave's generator works as claimed. Until further notice Dave must be guilty of lying or that Dave is guilty of fraud until proven innocent. Therefore the burden of proof.

This proof must be done with Dynameter, scopes, special torque measuring devices as Bye sees fit Until then guilty as charged

This site is for sharing bench top secret's with one another so as to collectively further any one technology but this presupposes that individuals here have a basic knowledge. Inventors are great people and should be treated with respect and these inventors are not always good teachers of their own subject. These inventors may not be master mechanics or EE engineers, chemists or have any world renowned titles.

Inventor sharing with other inventors should help one another

[Turion]

bi,
The truth is, you don't have a clue how this machine works or what it is capable of now do you? Have you seen it run? No. Have you measured the input? No. Have you measured the output? No Were you there on either of the occasions we had it in for independent testing? No. Have you seen video of it in operation showing information you could rely on to "expose" it as a fraud? No. Were you there when the Director of Technology for a major corporation that manufactures motors and generators came to my machinist's place in Santa Clara to ACTUALLY SEE the machine run and then informed me that he was going to apply the technique I showed him (magnetic neutralization) in a prototype he was developing? No, you were not.

You're the idiot that told the Wright Brothers that man would never fly because current theory said it was impossible.

But you go ahead and live in whatever world you want to live in. Those of us who understand what is possible will continue to do what we know how to do despite your best efforts to convince us we don't see what we DO see on the bench in front of us. You aren't hurting me. You don't discourage me or stop me from moving forward. The only people YOU hurt are the ones who could have gone forward with this technology and haven't because YOU choose to open your mouth. I hope you will always remember that with great shame, because THAT is your legacy and you are the one who will have to answer for it, not me.

Calling me a liar and a con man and a fraud is your way of avoiding the truth. You may not have used the exact words I quoted you as saying, but the meaning of the words you used was clear, and you know it. But none of that matters. I have the generator back. I am working on putting it back together. It will be done in a few days, and what will you do then? LOL I have been waiting for this day for longer than you have, but it will be my GREAT pleasure to shut you up.

I will put together a private YouTube video of the inputs and outputs of the machine during MY testing as well as one during the INDEPENDENT testing, and send the links to Aaron. I owe him. What happens past that is kind of up to him. I will gladly share the NUMBERS here, but not the video, as Aaron may still want to do something with the machine at a future conference now that we have something that actually runs without breaking down.....if we DO. That still remains to be seen. As many thousands of dollars have been pumped into the 10 year development of this prototype, it would be nice if it ran consistently. More output than input has NEVER been in question since the first prototype.

SO you won't see more of me here until the thing is up and running. I have no more time to argue with idiots. There is work to be done.

[bistander]

bi,
The truth is, you don't have a clue how this machine works or what it is capable of now do you? Have you seen it run? No. Have you measured the input? No. Have you measured the output? No Were you there on either of the occasions we had it in for independent testing? No. Have you seen video of it in operation showing information you could rely on to "expose" it as a fraud? No. Were you there when the Director of Technology for a major corporation that manufactures motors and generators came to my machinist's place in Santa Clara to ACTUALLY SEE the machine run and then informed me that he was going to apply the technique I showed him (magnetic neutralization) in a prototype he was developing? No, you were not.

You're the idiot that told the Wright Brothers that man would never fly because current theory said it was impossible.

But you go ahead and live in whatever world you want to live in. Those of us who understand what is possible will continue to do what we know how to do despite your best efforts to convince us we don't see what we DO see on the bench in front of us. You aren't hurting me. You don't discourage me or stop me from moving forward. The only people YOU hurt are the ones who could have gone forward with this technology and haven't because YOU choose to open your mouth. I hope you will always remember that with great shame, because THAT is your legacy and you are the one who will have to answer for it, not me.

Calling me a liar and a con man and a fraud is your way of avoiding the truth. You may not have used the exact words I quoted you as saying, but the meaning of the words you used was clear, and you know it. But none of that matters. I have the generator back. I am working on putting it back together. It will be done in a few days, and what will you do then? LOL I have been waiting for this day for longer than you have, but it will be my GREAT pleasure to shut you up.

I will put together a private YouTube video of the inputs and outputs of the machine during MY testing as well as one during the INDEPENDENT testing, and send the links to Aaron. I owe him. What happens past that is kind of up to him. I will gladly share the NUMBERS here, but not the video, as Aaron may still want to do something with the machine at a future conference now that we have something that actually runs without breaking down.....if we DO. That still remains to be seen. As many thousands of dollars have been pumped into the 10 year development of this prototype, it would be nice if it ran consistently. More output than input has NEVER been in question since the first prototype.

SO you won't see more of me here until the thing is up and running. I have no more time to argue with idiots. There is work to be done.

Ehhh, ok. Good luck with that.
bi
ps. Remember, I told you so. Everything I've told you is so (correct and true). So after it fails to perform to you imaginary expectations, you can refer back to this this thread and learn why. Or show me the data and I'll explain what's happening and why.

[BroMikey]

So after it fails to perform to you imaginary expectations,

you can refer back to this this thread and learn why.

Or show me the data and I'll explain what's happening and why.

Dave will fail? He will need to come to you for an explanation if it appears to work? This is how you think!!

You don't seem to get it tho, Dave's project has worked for years and the 16th version will be no different. Why does he have to bow down to you? This is not a worship service as the university conducts. You will never get the data with video proof and if you were to ever get it you would just explain it away.

Since you are unable to make tests you will need to find an easier project to built. Knowing how motors work, built 200 year ago is not a prerequisite to invention. Being an inventor is a special gift so enjoy the ride and be happy with what you will get. So far with you present state of mind I will have to say a zero.

[BroMikey]

Review the backing theory to bring yourself up to speed and at speed no cogging plz

[bistander]

So Turion,
Do I understand correctly? You say that you are not using bifilar coils on your lastest generator? That your are using a conventional winding of three strands in parallel?
bi

bi,
That’s correct. Three strands of 1,000 feet is all that is necessary. No Tesla style coil required. In every setup I always had “three strands in parallel” in order to have some amps. Those three strands were composed of a number of smaller strands connected in series. The only BENEFIT you get out of the Tesla style coil is that it lowers the RPM required for the coil to achieve the “neutral” reaction.

On my original setup I had a 3 strand coil. It would work and then quit working. It took me forever to figure out that running my MY1016 motor on a 12 volt battery I was right on the edge of the RPM at which I could get the neutral effect, and as soon as battery voltage dropped at all, the RPM would go down below the necessary threshold. I couldn’t hear it, the change was so slight, but you are either turning at 2800 RPM or you are NOT. The permalloy requires a bit higher RPM for the effect than the iron cores did.

Now Thane may be using a combination of single or multiple long strands combined with strands composed of shorter strands connected in series. He may have found some benefit to this I haven’t seen. All I know is what I see on the bench.

i don’t have the data in front of me, but if I remember there was one coil configuration that output just a bit more in power at the required RPM, and I believe it was the six strand coil. But for the difficulty in winding more strands and the time connecting all the parallel strands in series, that benefit wasn’t great enough for us to make that our target coil.


Three strands of #23 AWG each 1,000 feet long. An 11” rotor with 3/4 magnets on it spun at 2840 RPM and you get the neutral Lenz reaction with these permalloy cores
...

Hi Turion,

You say "That’s correct." & "No Tesla style coil required."

Finally, after all these years, you agree with what I said at the beginning. Remember all those insults and name-callings you threw at me because I couldn't see the benefit of your "speed-up-under-load" newfound free energy source. And now you admit that I was right. And you have reverted back to exactly what the debunker showed.

Now I suspect you'll say that you still have the neutral point in frequency. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see. But that doesn't alter the fact that Tesla bifilar winding offers no advantage in generated power. And that is what I have always said, and what the debunker demonstrated. You have found the truth. May Tesla rest in peace now.
bi

[Turion]

If you had paid attention you might remember that I have ALWAYS said that EVERY coil can achieve Lenz neutral at the correct frequency. I have said it probably close to 100 times. The very FIRST machine I ever built used coils with JUST three strands that were 1,000 feet long and achieved Lenz neutral at 2800 RPM. My argument has never been that you MUST have Tesla style coils. I never said that. All I have ever said is that Tesla style coils increase the capacitance of the coil and allow it to operate in a Lenz free condition, and that the Lenz neutral condition exists. They DO increase capacitance as Tesla said, and the advantage to them is that you can operate at a LOWER RPM. OR that you now get a Lenz free condition at a speed where you PREVIOUSLY had to deal with Lenz.

i havent “reverted back” to anything. I maintain the same position I have ALWAYS maintained. The Lenz free condition exists, there are MULTIPLE ways of achieving it, and when you can generate power without Lenz causing increased amp draw by the prime mover when the coils are under load, there is a measurable benefit.

You don’t need to try to twist things around like a pretzel to appear right, because you will always be wrong.

As for the debunker… he was running Lenz neutral coils at a frequency where they assisted the prime mover which means they were NOT outputting their maximum as generator coils. I have also stated that repeatedly. So I do NOT agree with him.

[bistander]

If you had paid attention you might remember that I have ALWAYS said that EVERY coil can achieve Lenz neutral at the correct frequency. I have said it probably close to 100 times. The very FIRST machine I ever built used coils with JUST three strands that were 1,000 feet long and achieved Lenz neutral at 2800 RPM. My argument has never been that you MUST have Tesla style coils. I never said that. All I have ever said is that Tesla style coils increase the capacitance of the coil and allow it to operate in a Lenz free condition, and that the Lenz neutral condition exists. They DO increase capacitance as Tesla said, and the advantage to them is that you can operate at a LOWER RPM. OR that you now get a Lenz free condition at a speed where you PREVIOUSLY had to deal with Lenz.

i havent “reverted back” to anything. I maintain the same position I have ALWAYS maintained. The Lenz free condition exists, there are MULTIPLE ways of achieving it, and when you can generate power without Lenz causing increased amp draw by the prime mover when the coils are under load, there is a measurable benefit.

You don’t need to try to twist things around like a pretzel to appear right, because you will always be wrong.

As for the debunker… he was running Lenz neutral coils at a frequency where they assisted the prime mover which means they were NOT outputting their maximum as generator coils. I have also stated that repeatedly. So I do NOT agree with him.

Me twist? You just attempted a major twist job. The record shows the truth. And you spent years touting bifilar Tesla coils, now you don't. And neither will "outrun Lenz". That's just another fantasy theory of yours. Prove your case with your generator using any coils you want.

You say "I have ALWAYS said that EVERY coil can achieve Lenz neutral at the correct frequency. I have said it probably close to 100 times.".

I have been paying attention, read where you state that, but just don't believe you. There is no evidence to support the statement. There must be clumlatively millions of generators with millions of operators running at every conceivable speed. I find it amazing that you're the only one who has ever noticed this phenomenon. I think it is so obvious that you're mistaken that I've not previously mentioned it. This Lenz free fantasy is the basis for your generator. So its failure to perform as you have claimed should convince you of the truth.
bi

bi

[Turion]

First, I have never “touted” bifilar Tesla coils. Show where I ever stayed “bifilar Tesla coils. Ever. Never once. Because I have never USED bifilar Tesla coils. I have ALWAYS had 3 strands coming off my coils from day one. I went immediately from a 3 strand coil to a 12 strand coil with groups of 4 strands connected in series and when that lowered the required RPM I went to a 24 strand coil with groups of 8 wires connected in series So I have never built a “bifilar Tesla coil.” And I have never “touted” it. I have talked about what I HAVE BUILT. That’s just you, manipulating the facts again.

As for Lenz free, your debunker showed one. Tell HIM it’s not possible.

You are really scrambling now! LOL

[bistander]

First, I have never “touted” bifilar Tesla coils. Show where I ever stayed “bifilar Tesla coils. Ever. Never once. Because I have never USED bifilar Tesla coils. I have ALWAYS had 3 strands coming off my coils from day one. I went immediately from a 3 strand coil to a 12 strand coil with groups of 4 strands connected in series and when that lowered the required RPM I went to a 24 strand coil with groups of 8 wires connected in series So I have never built a “bifilar Tesla coil.” And I have never “touted” it. I have talked about what I HAVE BUILT. That’s just you, manipulating the facts again.

As for Lenz free, your debunker showed one. Tell HIM it’s not possible.

You are really scrambling now! LOL

For someone who calls me picky and complains about semantics, you sure get on that wagon. And if I recall his patent, I believe he fashioned his claims broad enough to cover your multifilar windings. Besides how many times have you referenced Tesla's patent? I recall times that you claimed or implied Tesla patent covered "speed-up-under-load". You argued "speed-up-under-load" so often my auto-correct completes the phrase when I start to type it.

Now you're using standard coils and anticogging which is irrelevant at speed (certainly does nothing for magnetic drag), what's left but an ordinary axial PMSM? Good luck with your test.
bi
ps.

"As for Lenz free, your debunker showed one. Tell HIM it’s not possible."

What are you talking about? He compared a bifilar wound coil to a conventional wound coil. Neither were Lenz free.

[bistander]

I'm very close to having this thing all together. Unless there is some problem running it at speed that I can't see right now, I should have it up and running tomorrow. Then I can start putting coils in the machine and shooting videos of the results. It will be interesting to see what happens when Aaron gets a chance to see those videos. LOL. And LOTS of people will get to see them. Just not bistander.

That's ok, I know the outcome.
bi

[Turion]

The bifilar wound coil was a “ speed up under load coil”. Have you ever actually watched the video?

You don’t know the results. You’ve never done the testing. You are a blowhard who spends all his time with his mouth open instead of doing the work on the bench. And you will get exactly what you deserve out of all this. Nothing.

[bistander]

The bifilar wound coil was a “ speed up under load coil”. Have you ever actually watched the video?

You don’t know the results. You’ve never done the testing. You are a blowhard who spends all his time with his mouth open instead of doing the work on the bench. And you will get exactly what you deserve out of all this. Nothing.

You say "The bifilar wound coil was a “ speed up under load coil”.

So what? Nothing 'Lenz free' about that.
bi

[BroMikey]

You say "The bifilar wound coil was a “ speed up under load coil”.

So what? Nothing 'Lenz free' about that.
bi

Are you brain dead? A generator coil that speeds up under load is what Tesla talked about, a coil with self properties that negated lenz law. The lenz coils slow down the rotor. Are you really okay? Is anyone in there?