The bistander thread

[bistander]

Put up or shut up

So here are the facts. The old clunker machine with iron core coils was able to put out between 1800-2000 watts. The input was 36 volts at 12 amps and with adjustment we could get it down to 7 amps, but it wouldn’t STAY adjusted. Too much play in critical areas. The mechanical issues were addressed, and my hope was that this NEW machine with twice as many magnets on the rotor would be more powerful. Perhaps TWICE as powerful.

And it may well be, but I am not using the same coils because they heat up too quickly and melt the coating off the wires after about 30 minutes of constant running.

So I have been busy doing the thing I like least in the world, which is winding coils while my partners in Sacramento cut, coated, and epoxied in the core materials. They also tested coil pair for output on the old clunker and shared the data with me which I posted here.

They would send me videos of coil tests and kept track of data so we could make a decision on what core material to use. One of those videos is what a few people here saw. There is a problem with the testing that was done. The numbers are open circuit voltage numbers, not voltage under load. This wasn’t clear until watching the videos a few times and I called to confirm. By the time I realized the issue, I had already picked up all the GOOD coils and brought them home. So the voltage under load test he did yesterday was with a pair of mismatched coils and ones that produced LESS output than the wiring configuration we are using on the GOOD coils. BUT, the test shows that these new coils don’t put out NEAR the voltage of the iron core coils. Only about 55-60%.

My hope is that the GOOD coils put out enough more than the mismatched coils that with a 24 magnet rotor I will be right back up to the original 1800-2000 output of the original generator. But I am very aware it could be less.

But I want to be clear about a few things. The measurements I took on the original coils were ALWAYS under load, so those numbers are accurate. I first time I fired up a coil pair the bulb didn’t light up and it took me a bit to figure out I had blown it. And a coil pair blew two 100 watt bulbs in series. It lit 3 to brighter than when connected to wall voltage and increasing the RPM would blow the bulb, so I am very aware of the voltage and amps I was getting because I used an oscilloscope as well as several different meters.

But as to total output of this machine with this new core material, it’s an unknown until I see it run on the bench. And if I want to win the bet with bistander I might have to put all the old coils back in it. I could. But I am curious to see what this machine will output with these new coils and will go from there. This motor could turn a second or even a third rotor. That would be a much bigger machine, so I will probably leave that to someone else.

oh, the mismatched coils under load were outputting 77 volts at 1.3 amps. Not even close to the 120-130 volts at 1.5 amps the iron core pair put out. But that’s with a 12 magnet rotor. I don’t know what MATCHED coils will do on a 24 magnet rotor yet. So it may be back to testing core material. We still have a couple we didn’t test, but I wound the extra coils already.

I'll post Turion's latest excuses. See above.

Back to reality and fact. Turion said:

On Oct. 14, 2021, 6:06PM


... And how? I have no illogical reasoning. I have a working device. Pretty hard to make THAT go away by wishing and babbling. I have my observations. I have my results. I'm very happy with all of those. You have nothing, which is what you deserve.

Nine days ago you said that you had a working device. That is a bold lie. Truth is that you did not have a working device on that day, or ever had a working device, or ever will have a working device. Truth, Turion. Face reality. Piling on more and more lies, falsehoods and excuses does not change truth. Neither does name-calling and childish games.
bi

[BroMikey]

I'll post Turion's latest excuses. See above.

Back to reality and fact. Turion said:


Nine days ago you said that you had a working device. That is a bold lie. Truth is that you did not have a working device on that day, or ever had a working device, or ever will have a working device. Truth, Turion. Face reality. Piling on more and more lies, falsehoods and excuses does not change truth. Neither does name-calling and childish games.
bi

easy bye, you gotta watch the cards

The Royal Fizzbin

[Turion]

The old clunker machine still exists. It is being used as a coil tester right now, but it IS a working device. Just because it doesn’t have all the coils in it at the moment doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. I have run it many, many times and it will be running again tomorrow. Using some coils to see if one pair will run the drive motor.

put up or shut up, COWARD

[bistander]

...
Yes, I DO have a working machine. That is not a lie. It outputs considerably more than is input. It is the old clunker we have been using to test coil configurations and core material. Funny thing. With the OLD coils, that only put out 120-130 volts at .5 amps, it wouldn't be worth looking at, but the NEW coils put out 270 volts at .75 amps. It is sitting in my friends garage. With just two coils (and their cores) in it, it outputs more than it takes to run. That's why the EE that was there a couple weeks ago brought his boss back to so it. Is it putting out 1,800 to 2,000 watts? No it is not. But it IS outputting around 400 watts on an input of less than 200 watts. That was enough to impress the EE. And it does not even have the magnetic neutralization dialed in. Just "neutral" coils. With only two coils the "drag" is minimal. So you can babble all you want about this stuff not working. The truth is on the bench.

You say "The truth is on the bench." That which is on your bench contradicts your statement(s), as you've admitted when describing data from recent tests. You do not have a working device as you claim. Telling people that you do, is a lie. Look it up.
bi

[BroMikey]

I'll post Turion's latest excuses. See above.

Back to reality and fact. Turion said:


Nine days ago you said that you had a working device. That is a bold lie. Truth is that you did not have a working device on that day, or ever had a working device, or ever will have a working device. Truth, Turion. Face reality. Piling on more and more lies, falsehoods and excuses does not change truth. Neither does name-calling and childish games.
bi

instead of biting the hand that feeds us the data make a bet on the royal fizzbin. Admit it you are acting like a cornered animal. The bet? you can't keep the rules of the game in retention being over your intellect.

............................

[Turion]

If you would pull your head out, you might be able to read. The old clunker will do everything I claimed. All I have to do is put the original coils back in it, which I still have.

Yes, there is a definite possibility that the new machine may NOT produce as much power as I have claimed is possible WITH the NEW coils, but I could certainly put those old coils in it and produce MORE than what I claimed is possible. New 24 magnet rotor instead of 12. Regardless, I have a machine that does exactly what I have claimed. If you don’t believe me, make the bet and we will find out won’t we, coward.

Put up or shut up

[BroMikey]

You say "The truth is on the bench." That which is on your bench contradicts your statement(s), as you've admitted when describing data from recent tests. You do not have a working device as you claim. Telling people that you do, is a lie. Look it up.
bi

You are deliberately trying to confuse facts between box 14,15 and 16th version and will not stop proving yourself right. Make the bet.

[bistander]

10-22-2021, 05:05 PM
... I highly DOUBT that the output of two coils will be enough to power the motor. I won’t know until I get this thing up and running. This may mean that the total output of the machine is less than what I claimed. Then bistander will be right about total output. ... ... there is a chance he is correct about TOTAL output for this specific machine being less than the 1800-2000 watts I claimed.
...

Here, you say that you have parts that you "highly DOUBT" will, when assembled, constitute a device capable of working, as delivering the power output per input, as you claim; therefore, bistander (me) "will be right about TOTAL output".

PARDON ME.

This is an admission, by you, that you do not have a working device,

That makes your statement of 10 days ago false, or a lie, because you do not have a working device.

bi

[BroMikey]

Dave has had a working device for over a decade and the newer versions keep coming. Try this one while you wait.

[BroMikey]

interesting, just this year

[pmgriphone]

[QUOTE=BroMikey;n507806]interesting, just this year

BrrrrMonkey, what is so interesting about this video???? Battery driving a coil driving a wheel with magnets, driving a dynamo, showing a voltage....

[Turion]

Originally posted by Turion View Post
10-22-2021, 05:05 PM
... I highly DOUBT that the output of two coils will be enough to power the motor. I won’t know until I get this thing up and running. This may mean that the total output of the machine is less than what I claimed. Then bistander will be right about total output. ... ... there is a chance he is correct about TOTAL output for this specific machine being less than the 1800-2000 watts I claimed.

QUOTE=bistander;n507804]

Here, you say that you have parts that you "highly DOUBT" will, when assembled, constitute a device capable of working, as delivering the power output per input, as you claim; therefore, bistander (me) "will be right about TOTAL output".

PARDON ME.

This is an admission, by you, that you do not have a working device,

That makes your statement of 10 days ago false, or a lie, because you do not have a working device.

bi
[/QUOTE]


Did your mommy ever teach you to read? Someone certainly taught you to take things out of context. Take a look at the highlighted part of what you quoted me as saying.

What the NEW machine will do will be determined by the coils I put in it. The old machine, even out of adjustment and drawing 12 amps STILL does what I have claimed, as long as the old coils are in it. The new machine will out perform it by FAR with those same coils. What it will do with the new coils I cannot say for sure in light of this new information until I see it on the bench, but to take YOUR money I would happily put the old coils in it long enough to show you have never had a clue.

And it is NOT an admission that I do not have a working device. Once again you try to put words in my mouth. But it won’t work. The cat is already out of the bag.

So make the bet, COWARD. Put up or shut up.

[bistander]

Originally posted by Turion View Post
10-22-2021, 05:05 PM
... I highly DOUBT that the output of two coils will be enough to power the motor. I won’t know until I get this thing up and running. This may mean that the total output of the machine is less than what I claimed. Then bistander will be right about total output. ... ... there is a chance he is correct about TOTAL output for this specific machine being less than the 1800-2000 watts I claimed.

QUOTE=bistander;n507804]

Here, you say that you have parts that you "highly DOUBT" will, when assembled, constitute a device capable of working, as delivering the power output per input, as you claim; therefore, bistander (me) "will be right about TOTAL output".

PARDON ME.

This is an admission, by you, that you do not have a working device,

That makes your statement of 10 days ago false, or a lie, because you do not have a working device.

bi

Did your mommy ever teach you to read? Someone certainly taught you to take things out of context. Take a look at the highlighted part of what you quoted me as saying.

What the NEW machine will do will be determined by the coils I put in it. The old machine, even out of adjustment and drawing 12 amps STILL does what I have claimed, as long as the old coils are in it. The new machine will out perform it by FAR with those same coils. What it will do with the new coils I cannot say for sure in light of this new information until I see it on the bench, but to take YOUR money I would happily put the old coils in it long enough to show you have never had a clue.

And it is NOT an admission that I do not have a working device. Once again you try to put words in my mouth. But it won’t work. The cat is already out of the bag.

So make the bet, COWARD. Put up or shut up.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about?

10-22-2021, 12:33 PM

You should have made the bet. Too late now.

"You should have made the bet." Sure sounds like you're conceding your imaginary bet, admitting that you do not have a device that works, like you claimed.

[Turion]

If you had made the bet (not an imaginary bet. A bet for real money) and I had tried to prove you wrong with my new machine using the new coils, I would have failed and you would have won because I didn’t realize the voltage measurements on the new coils was an open voltage measurement. Now I know. So it’s too late. You should have made the bet. NOW I would just put my original coils in the machine.

This machine may STILL output enough, but I won’t know until I run it. The only data I have for coil output under load is with mismatched coils and 12 magnets on the rotor. Not a true reflection of what is possible.

[bistander]

If you had made the bet (not an imaginary bet. A bet for real money) and I had tried to prove you wrong with my new machine using the new coils, I would have failed and you would have won because I didn’t realize the voltage measurements on the new coils was an open voltage measurement. Now I know. So it’s too late. You should have made the bet. NOW I would just put my original coils in the machine.

This machine may STILL output enough, but I won’t know until I run it. The only data I have for coil output under load is with mismatched coils and 12 magnets on the rotor. Not a true reflection of what is possible.

OK, right. But prove that you have a working device as you said 12 days ago. You cannot so that was a lie. Prove you ever had, have, or ever will have a device capable of your extraordinary claim of 6 years ago. You cannot. That was and still is a lie. That is all you do, lie, after lie, and more lies. You say "The only data I have for coil output under load is with mismatched coils..." So you don't have proof of the "working" device or that you had (were in possession of) one 12 days ago as claimed.
bi