The bistander thread

[Turion]

Perhaps they should. That's what I have always recommended. BUILD IT YOURSELF. Don't just spout your opinion. But you make your own decisions, based on what you see on the bench. That's what everyone should do.

[bistander]

Perhaps they should. That's what I have always recommended. BUILD IT YOURSELF. Don't just spout your opinion. But you make your own decisions, based on what you see on the bench. That's what everyone should do.

And what is the fact between what you saw as to the number of series connected cells in that LiFePO4 12V battery on your bench (6) and my opinion (4)?

Yeah, you hate it when I bring that up, don't you? But it demonstrates that you, Turion, can't be trusted to actually see reality on your bench, as is the case with a machine having 2000 watts output from 300 watts input.

Have you got any further bench work, tests, on your year past due generator or new black beauty? Put it up for the world to see and scrutinize. That's how a remarkable claim is proven.

I thought you wanted to make me eat my words. What's stopping you? Go ahead and make your day.

bi

[bistander]

sinergicus,

That design eliminates clogging. It does NOT eliminate the attraction of the magnets to the coil cores. THAT is a separate issue. ...

The attraction between the magnets and core is cogging, or is the source or cause of cogging, by definition. Look it up.

Turion's method of dealing with it, which I think he now calls magnetic neutralization, uses repelling magnets to counteract the cogging torque caused by the main rotor magnets and stator core(s). He is correct anti-cogging methods do not eliminate the attractive force between the main magnets and the core(s). If that force were eliminated it would render the generator useless.

Of course a coreless generator has no cogging and no attractive force between magnets and core.

bi

[Quantum_well]

If you look at cogging torque it's often a sort of sine wave. You get negative torque which means you're not losing a lot. My experience is a big reduction in cogging equals a crap generator.

[Turion]

bi,
You spend your life interpreting things YOUR way rather than looking at the facts. Attraction of the rotor magnets to the iron core is cogging. I have never said any different. It can be "SMOOTHED OUT" at high speed or by the design sinergicus proposed. I know. I have built that design. But if you believe you can ELIMINATE the attraction of magnets to the mass of iron in the cores you are mistaken. If magnets LOST their attraction just because the go fast, how would FLUX be produced in the core of the coil? Ever actually THINK about what comes out of your mouth? At speed it is just a constant drag rather than a pulsing drag. The jerking, cogging MOTION is gone, but that's why they call it cogging. The attraction is STILL THERE. It is reflected in the decreased speed of the drive motor as well as an increase in amp draw. Get your rotor up to speed and record RPM and amp draw. Keep adding coils. I will bet you that if you add ENOUGH coils you can bring the motor to a halt. or burn it up, just because of the increased amp draw. Have you tried that? I have. I even SHOWED it in a video, but you continue to live in your own world. LOL

Edit: Actually it was THREE videos. One with the machine running and zero coils in place. Another with four coils in place. Another with 6 coils in place.

Of course you can go SO FAST that you exceed the ability of the core material to interact with the magnetism provided by the passing magnet, but this decreases the output of the coil and is of NO BENEFIT.

Quantum..well
The reduction in cogging in THIS design has NOTHING to do with the ability of the rotor magnets to generate flux in the cores of the coils. If you put only two coils on the machine and measure the output when there is little core mass to impede the operation of the motor, the output of the coil pair is almost exactly the same PER COIL PAIR as when there are ten pair of coils on the machine and it has been adjusted to neutralize the attraction of the rotor magnets. Have you LOOKED at the design of this machine?

When the rotor magnet is being attracted to the core of the coil in ONE place, there are two magnets in OPPOSITION in another place, canceling out that attraction. Simple physics. But that cancellation in NO WAY affects the flux the magnet induces in the core of the coil, or the electricity that coil generates under load.

[bistander]

bi,
You spend your life interpreting things YOUR way rather than looking at the facts. Attraction of the rotor magnets to the iron core is cogging. I have never said any different. It can be "SMOOTHED OUT" at high speed or by the design sinergicus proposed. I know. I have built that design. But if you believe you can ELIMINATE the attraction of magnets to the mass of iron in the cores you are mistaken. At speed it is just a constant drag rather than a pulsing drag. The jerking, cogging MOTION is gone, but that's why they call it cogging. The attraction is STILL THERE. It is reflected in the decreased speed of the drive motor as well as an increase in amp draw. Get your rotor up to speed and record RPM and amp draw. Keep adding coils. I will bet you that if you add ENOUGH coils you can bring the motor to a halt. or burn it up, just because of the increased amp draw. Have you tried that? I have. I even SHOWED it in a video, but you continue to live in your own world. LOL

Quantum..well
The reduction in cogging in THIS design has NOTHING to do with the ability of the rotor magnets to generate flux in the cores of the coils. If you put only two coils on the machine and measure the output when there is little core mass to impede the operation of the motor, the output of the coil pair is almost exactly the same as when there are ten pair of coils on the machine and it has been adjusted to neutralize the attraction of the rotor magnets. Have you LOOKED at the design of this machine?

Turion,

You're wrong. There are two distinct phenomena occurring, cogging and core loss. Cogging is not a loss mechanism. Core loss (eddy current and hysteresis) is along with friction and windage (aerodynamic drag). These are facts. Look it up. Test it. I have.

You can post BS and tell people garbage. Others, me, for example, have every right to tell people fact and truth. Hopefully, those interested enough to be reading here, will use logic and reason to formulate what they believe.

bi

[bistander]

Turion,

You recently posted a video of black beauty's twin running at ~5100 RPM. Very nice and smooth. Meters showed ~100V and ~ 4A, IIRC. I assume these are figures for the input to the drive motor. About 400 watts. I did not see any evidence of electric output from the generator.

Were coils and cores installed? Were the anticogging magnets installed?

Your friend has done an excellent assembly. A relatively easy and simple test can shed light on cogging/core loss if he's up to it.

With cores in place and anticogging magnets adjusted, test and record input power to motor at a given speed, say 5000RPM. Next, repeat test with anticogging magnets adjusted all the way out from the rotor, so they have minimal effect. Record input power to the motor for the same speed.

How about it?

bi

[Turion]

Duh, Greyland DID that test and I posted the results a while back. You just choose to forget everything that doesn't support your point of view.

[bistander]

Duh, Greyland DID that test and I posted the results a while back. You just choose to forget everything that doesn't support your point of view.

Hi Turion,

I am just human. I've forgotten that if it was actually an equivalent or very similar test. I don't recall seeing real power input data from any test you or Mr. Greyland have conducted. Please provide a link to that.
Thanks,
bi

{edit}
Due to the difference in the anticogging magnet configuration, what I am requesting was/is not practical on the machine that Mr, Greyland has.

{edit#2}
It shouldn't take more that a few minutes to adjust those magnets and run the test I suggest.

{edit#3}
You'd probably be able to back those magnets away while it was running giving a realtime look at input effects.

[Turion]

We keep having the same arguments and conversations over and over. I'm not proving a thing to you. I've given you all I'm going to give. You had your chance and all you have done is ask for more and more and more, and the same stuff over and over. You want to know the truth? Build it and you will see. Several of us have and we know the truth.

[bistander]

We keep having the same arguments and conversations over and over. I'm not proving a thing to you. I've given you all I'm going to give. You had your chance and all you have done is ask for more and more and more, and the same stuff over and over. You want to know the truth? Build it and you will see. Several of us have and we know the truth.

Hi Turion,

You've never done the tests I've requested or provided real useful data. You're afraid it will demonstrate that I'm right.

I've conducted motor and generator loss testing in professional labs many times.

Regards,
bi

[Turion]

Bully for you. And you still don't know squat. LOL

[bistander]

Bully for you. And you still don't know squat. LOL

Run the test. 5 minutes. See who knows what they're talking about. We both know why you won't. You're afraid of the truth.
bi

[Turion]

I’ve already RUN that test dozens of times. It’s like the very FIRST test you run to see if your output is greater than your input. I just haven’t shown the videos to YOU. And since YOU are the all powerful (NOT) OZ, you believe the world revolves around YOUR assessment. It doesn’t and it never will. Sorry to give you the bad news. Put on your big boy pants and build it yourself.

[bistander]

I’ve already RUN that test dozens of times. It’s like the very FIRST test you run to see if your output is greater than your input. I just haven’t shown the videos to YOU. And since YOU are the all powerful (NOT) OZ, you believe the world revolves around YOUR assessment. It doesn’t and it never will. Sorry to give you the bad news. Put on your big boy pants and build it yourself.

You have never run the test which I outlined in all the posts I've ever seen from you. Such a test would invalidate your magnetic neutralization scheme. You know it. You're afraid to run it as I outlined. It would only take your friend with the twin machine a few minutes to run. A simple test could prove that I am mistaken about core losses and what you call magnetic drag. Here's your chance. Go for it.
bi