The bistander thread

[OrionLightShip]

There really is nothing to talk about anymore in relation to Dave's generator. He stated he isn't going to share any testing results with this forum, so nothing matters at all, NOTHING! There will be the conference and there will be a book sold whether this is real or not, and that's that, so why argue anything at all? I honestly don't understand why he even wastes a second of his time coming to this forum if this is real and he has the money deals in the works. You guys need to just chill, right?! Nothing to see here without simple tests done and results shown so move forward another direction. Just my opinion.

Orion

[OrionLightShip]

bi

Yeah I'm calling BS on the patent. However, Dave says it works. Remember the Newman motor...that actually worked and I know exactly how and why too. Problem was that Newman spouted a bunch of crap to go with it, for instance, that the extra energy came from copper atoms being converted. Just his ignorance on the actual reason.. Could be the same with this patent, who knows without testing it? It looks like it wouldn't work to me but I'm not going to build it or tell Dave it doesn't work. Not going to build a Newman motor either.

I think outrunning a core's admittance property is a bad idea; it is just less power generated.

However, remember Tesla's patent where he made a two phase motor by making one core longer than the other? If the core properties are suited and the core is long enough with the coil set back far enough, then you could conceivably drive the core to near saturation while creating enough phase delay to do exactly what Dave claims is happening. It is all about the core property and/or length. Another way to delay the phase is using a shorted section of conductor just like the way a shaded pole motor works...of course a shaded pole motor is very inefficient, but hey; maybe it works for generation?

I have my doubts but I hope the dang thing works as advertised.

Ok, I've brought all the light I know how to bring to this subject so I'm out. I would say Over and Out and use my Call Sign but then I would be Doxing myself.

Orion

[BroMikey]

Good work Dave, looks like movers and shakers working endless hours. Good deal seeing you guys put the pedal to the metal. Let's get it together right. You are the only one so far who gets it.

[Turion]

bi,
You claim I said the Werjefelt patent works. Where did I say that? I didn't.

I bought the Werjefelt patent to attention for ONE reason...the diagram I have shown here several posts ago. I NEVER said the patent worked. That particular DIAGRAM works, which is the magnetic neutralization or cancellation. That I brought it up AT ALL originally was in to a response to a statement by Bro Mikey that I was following the work of Thane Heins (with my coils) and Mad Max (with the magnetic neutralization or repulsion). I posted the Tesla patent because THAT is where I got the idea for the coils, which predates Thane by a year or two, but I couldn't remember the name of the individual that I got the idea for magnetic neutralization from and people had asked me to show the patent. When I ran across it, I did. The Werjefelt patent is where I got the idea for magnetic neutralization, and it predates Mad Max's contributions by a year or two also. I honestly haven't bothered to even READ the Wewrjefelt patent. The picture I saw of magnetic neutralization was all that interested me.

I never said I would NOT share data here from my tests. I fully intend to do that. What I refuse to do is show proof of that data. If you can't take my word for it, then that's YOUR problem. I will show Aaron the video of everything. I could care less what you people think about this machine. The information is going to get out there DESPITE bi's attempts to discredit everything I have tried to share, and that was my only reason for coming here. It will happen despite him.

There are FOUR ways to affect Lenz.
1. Speed of rotor
2. Composition of the core
3. Length of the core
4. Capacity of the coil.
Anyone who cannot see that number one is possible had better take high school physics all over again. If your rotor is fast enough, you can outrun Lenz because the iron core absorbs the magnetic flux at a FIXED rate, while the RPM of the rotor is a variable YOU control. If you cannot SEE that, there is absolutely NO hope for you. The other three are also effective. My generator is using a combination of THREE of them. I could also extend the core, but I don't really need to. I am seeing no drag under load now at 1140 RPM where my original coils required an RPM of 2800 to achieve the same effect. That's what it is...an EFFECT. As is Lenz.

[alexelectric]

Dave
My generator is using a combination of THREE of them. I could also extend the core, but I don't really need to. I am seeing no drag under load now at 1140 RPM where my original coils required an RPM of 2800 to achieve the same effect. That's what it is...an EFFECT. As is Lenz.


that is to take and combine what works, and you explain it well, now it can be demonstrated by yourself, you have fully explained the basic principles in which your generator operates, so that anyone who wants to replicate it can do so.
and so check it out for yourself.
and that is what I am doing and check for myself, and take advantage or profit from the results to apply them practically

[OrionLightShip]

bi
I saw the light last night. I'm a believer now.

Kudos to Matt and Dave






Orion

[bistander]

bi,
You claim I said the Werjefelt patent works. Where did I say that? I didn't.

I bought the Werjefelt patent to attention for ONE reason...the diagram I have shown here several posts ago. I NEVER said the patent worked. That particular DIAGRAM works, which is the magnetic neutralization or cancellation. That I brought it up AT ALL originally was in to a response to a statement by Bro Mikey that I was following the work of Thane Heins (with my coils) and Mad Max (with the magnetic neutralization or repulsion). I posted the Tesla patent because THAT is where I got the idea for the coils, which predates Thane by a year or two, but I couldn't remember the name of the individual that I got the idea for magnetic neutralization from and people had asked me to show the patent. When I ran across it, I did. The Werjefelt patent is where I got the idea for magnetic neutralization, and it predates Mad Max's contributions by a year or two also. I honestly haven't bothered to even READ the Wewrjefelt patent. The picture I saw of magnetic neutralization was all that interested me.

I never said I would NOT share data here from my tests. I fully intend to do that. What I refuse to do is show proof of that data. If you can't take my word for it, then that's YOUR problem. I will show Aaron the video of everything. I could care less what you people think about this machine. The information is going to get out there DESPITE bi's attempts to discredit everything I have tried to share, and that was my only reason for coming here. It will happen despite him.

There are FOUR ways to affect Lenz.
1. Speed of rotor
2. Composition of the core
3. Length of the core
4. Capacity of the coil.
Anyone who cannot see that number one is possible had better take high school physics all over again. If your rotor is fast enough, you can outrun Lenz because the iron core absorbs the magnetic flux at a FIXED rate, while the RPM of the rotor is a variable YOU control. If you cannot SEE that, there is absolutely NO hope for you. The other three are also effective. My generator is using a combination of THREE of them. I could also extend the core, but I don't really need to. I am seeing no drag under load now at 1140 RPM where my original coils required an RPM of 2800 to achieve the same effect. That's what it is...an EFFECT. As is Lenz.

bi,
You claim I said the Werjefelt patent works.

Where did I claim that? I didn't.

bi,
...
I bought the Werjefelt patent to attention ...

"bought"? Goof.

Other members post on this thread. Maybe you attribute their words to me. Or maybe it's just your imagination. I never said (wrote) you that you said the Werjefelt patent works.

bi ...
I never said I would NOT share data here from my tests. ...

There really is nothing to talk about anymore in relation to Dave's generator. He stated he isn't going to share any testing results with this forum,
...
Orion

Orion said(wrote) that, not me. Yet you imply it was me. You're really trying to pick a fight with me. It's obvious, or should be, that I disagree with your take on magnetics and physics. I have stated that I don't want to argue about it. I'm content to wait for the data.

You're welcome to continue to post your ideas here. Just because I don't argue each point doesn't infer that I agree with anything you say(write).

Regards,
bi

[Turion]

You are probably correct bi. At this point I attribute EVERYTHING negative to you as you have been the major detractor to getting people interested in this project. The Devil! LOL. But when this gets presented at the conference all your hard work will be undone. I am so looking forward to that.

[OrionLightShip]

bistander,


Two things. YES, I understand there is no "hard evidence" here. There never will be. I will only share the videos with Aaron anyway, and you will have to take his word. Or not. I don't care..

Dave

bi, I was paraphrasing what I remembered Dave saying. NOT quoting him. My entire post was merely an attempt to stop the arguing because it won't change anything. He just won't share the videos and I misstated his intent.

I apologize for that but.....
He is correct about what his generator is doing
He is correct about the way the magnetic neutralization fits in to what his generator is doing.

I was also wrong to think that there was a Power Factor problem with the output. There is no PF on the generator side.... it is simply generated EMF and the current that the EMF produces. PF come into play on the "end user" side of things. I was wrong again.

At any rate.... the truth always comes with time so arguing is a complete and total waste of that time.

Orion

[bistander]

bi, I was paraphrasing what I remembered Dave saying. NOT quoting him. My entire post was merely an attempt to stop the arguing because it won't change anything. He just won't share the videos and I misstated his intent.

I apologize for that but.....
He is correct about what his generator is doing
He is correct about the way the magnetic neutralization fits in to what his generator is doing.

I was also wrong to think that there was a Power Factor problem with the output. There is no PF on the generator side.... it is simply generated EMF and the current that the EMF produces. PF come into play on the "end user" side of things. I was wrong again.

At any rate.... the truth always comes with time so arguing is a complete and total waste of that time.

Orion

Orion, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Power Factor is with any Alternating Current. It (PF) may be unity, but always plays into real power in AC circuits.

Regards,
bi

[bistander]

Bro,
Despite what some of the people who come here believe, free energy is possible. Once you have seen it on the bench, no one can convince you otherwise. We have had stuff verified by experts and replicated, so telling us we are “wrong” is not going to stop us. It just makes us laugh at the stupidity of some people. YES, I get frustrated when people insist they “know” (because of their book learnin’ ) that something isn’t possible when I have working prototypes, but that is to be expected. Change won’t come easy.

But the revolution is here. A major innovative motor design and manufacturing company is taking a close look at my generator with the idea that one of their super efficient motors could be used to run it. Since the generator is based on my combination of two patents in the public domain, and I have disclosed everything about it here, I have shared all that with them. I have a meeting with them later this month and we will see what happens. So far it is going well, but it ain’t over til it’s over. Right now they are looking at the speed up under load and the magnetic neutralization. Testing and evaluating takes time and THEN you move to design phase. I have no idea if the finished product will look anything like my current machine but I sincerely DOUBT it. I am getting NOTHING out of this. All profits will be THEIRS. I just want the tech OUT THERE. Those who believe this generator doesn’t work are just wrong.

Yes, I am dedicated to this. I’m still a couple months away from finishing my house as the contractor I am working with can only give me about one day a week, but he’s good and CHEAP, By the time it’s finished I will probably be either rich or dead. Life is funny like that.

So stay tuned. I’ll update on what I can when I can. Just know the lid is about to come off. It is going to be an incredible year.

The generator is the LEAST of it

A major innovative motor design and manufacturing company is taking a close look at my generator ...

Perhaps they can help you get it running and test it.

[alexelectric]

Greetings bi
Could you put the date when it was published when you take the comments
have a good day

[bistander]

Greetings bi
Could you put the date when it was published when you take the comments
have a good day

Hello Alex,
I try to always include the link to the original post. All you do is click on the >> in tiny blue box shown after the member's username.

...

That provides the information you seek, doesn't it?
Regards,
bi

[Turion]

bi,
Getting anything seriously worked out with that company is months away, but it WILL be interesting to see what happens.

The generator is running right now on 16 amps at 36 volts. I don't know what will happen to the amp draw if we drop it to 24 volt input because we haven't tried yet, but it will probably go up a bit. Maybe not. I claimed 12 amps, so my goal was to get it down to that before doing any measurement of power output, but I will do power output measurements next time I go down REGARDLESS of amp input. We also were not running it on 36 volts, so the RPM MAY be higher, and the output higher than what I claimed. Anyway, regardless, it will be an accurate measurement of the input and output of the machine AS IT SITS.

All my claims were based on this machine with 6 of the 2" Neo magnets on the rotor. That's what I did ALL my original tests with. We replaced that rotor more than a year ago with one that has 12 of the 1" neos because I believe they will put out more power, so we may NOT be able to get it down to 12 amps draw, but hopefully the power output is greater with more magnets, just as the amp draw appears to be more with the additional magnets. If not, we may have to go back to the old rotor. I still have it. But I will trade a little additional amp draw for an increase in power output, as long as it doesn't draw too many amps for this motor. 16 amps is not too much for a motor rated at 27, so while I would RATHER it was 12, I will live with 16 just to complete this testing, and then we will work or fine tuning to reduce the amp draw. We already know there is A problem, but to fix it we have to tear the machine apart and replace some of the pieces holding the opposition magnets that have play in them. I don't want to do that. It is a time consuming process, and I just don't have the TIME for all this. PLUS, I have no idea if it will solve the problem and reduce the amp draw. The amp draw may well be a result of the additional magnets.

One of the interesting things about this machine is that some of the coils have 3 wires each 1000 feet long. Some of the coils are 6 wires each 500 feet long with two wired in series. Some of the coils are 12 strands each 250 feet long with four wired in series. You can see the different effect each set of coils has on the RPM of the motor and the amp draw of the motor when you connect the load across that pair of coils. And if you connect the loads before the machine gets up to the proper speed, it will NEVER get up to speed and will just burn up the motor. The coils that cause the motor to speed up under load generate LESS power than those that have NO effect. The ones that neither speed up the motor nor slow it down put out the MOST power. So what you will see is that the coils with the MOST power output have NO effect on the motor whatsoever when they are loaded. This ALSO means that the output of the coil pairs are NOT all the same. But anyone who really understands this machine will understand EXACTLY why that is true. And when you look at the output of those coils that have NO EFFECT when loaded, you see what is possible.

[bistander]

bi,
Getting anything seriously worked out with that company is months away, but it WILL be interesting to see what happens.

The generator is running right now on 16 amps at 36 volts. I don't know what will happen to the amp draw if we drop it to 24 volt input because we haven't tried yet, but it will probably go up a bit. Maybe not. I claimed 12 amps, so my goal was to get it down to that before doing any measurement of power output, but I will do power output measurements next time I go down REGARDLESS of amp input. We also were not running it on 36 volts, so the RPM MAY be higher, and the output higher than what I claimed. Anyway, regardless, it will be an accurate measurement of the input and output of the machine AS IT SITS.

All my claims were based on this machine with 6 of the 2" Neo magnets on the rotor. That's what I did ALL my original tests with. We replaced that rotor more than a year ago with one that has 12 of the 1" neos because I believe they will put out more power, so we may NOT be able to get it down to 12 amps draw, but hopefully the power output is greater with more magnets, just as the amp draw appears to be more with the additional magnets. If not, we may have to go back to the old rotor. I still have it. But I will trade a little additional amp draw for an increase in power output, as long as it doesn't draw too many amps for this motor. 16 amps is not too much for a motor rated at 27, so while I would RATHER it was 12, I will live with 16 just to complete this testing, and then we will work or fine tuning to reduce the amp draw. We already know there is A problem, but to fix it we have to tear the machine apart and replace some of the pieces holding the opposition magnets that have play in them. I don't want to do that. It is a time consuming process, and I just don't have the TIME for all this. PLUS, I have no idea if it will solve the problem and reduce the amp draw. The amp draw may well be a result of the additional magnets.

One of the interesting things about this machine is that some of the coils have 3 wires each 1000 feet long. Some of the coils are 6 wires each 500 feet long with two wired in series. Some of the coils are 12 strands each 250 feet long with four wired in series. You can see the different effect each set of coils has on the RPM of the motor and the amp draw of the motor when you connect the load across that pair of coils. And if you connect the loads before the machine gets up to the proper speed, it will NEVER get up to speed and will just burn up the motor. The coils that cause the motor to speed up under load generate LESS power than those that have NO effect. The ones that neither speed up the motor nor slow it down put out the MOST power. So what you will see is that the coils with the MOST power output have NO effect on the motor whatsoever when they are loaded. This ALSO means that the output of the coil pairs are NOT all the same. But anyone who really understands this machine will understand EXACTLY why that is true. And when you look at the output of those coils that have NO EFFECT when loaded, you see what is possible.

Hello Turion,
Your drive motor is a brushed PMDC motor and will behave in the classical manner. The no-load and light-load RPM is very nearly directly proportional to the applied voltage. So, for instance, if you get 2000 RPM at 24V, then expect 3000 RPM at 36V. If you need 2800 RPM, then just dial the power supply to 33.6V. I'm not so concerned with actual voltage except to use the measurement for accurate input power.

Current vs load torque is also linear for the PMDC motor. Your load, at steady state (constant RPM, not accelerating), is something similar to a fan characteristic. The important fact is it is always increasing current with increasing RPM. So if you lower voltage, decrease RPM, the current will decrease.

You post so much about different coils, it would be nice to provide a chart of what is actually on the machine. Wire gauge, parallel paths, resistance and number of turns are the important factors. Everybody uses T/c or Turns per coil except you and a few guys here. So I can deal with wire length. I noticed in a photo that a coil had 55 ohms written on it. I assume that was a measured value? That is nearly consistent with 3000 feet of #23AWG copper wire.

You might want to look at recommend current for #23. Also the Maximum Power Transfer Theorem or Jocobi's Law.

Hopefully you'll be able to continue testing and provide more data.

Regards,
bi