The bistander thread

[bistander]

Drag?

You can build the machine I described above with 12 coils on it and ATTEMPT to get 2000 watts out of it. You WILL, but only for a minute or two until your motor BURNS up. I should know. I built it and I burnt up SEVERAL motors. My coils were neutral, meaning they caused the motor to neither speed up nor slow down. With only a couple coils on the machine it output as expected and input does not seem affected. But with 12 coils on the machine there is a drag that causes thr motor to draw high amps. I TRIED to explain this to bistander, that there was magnetic drag because of the attraction of the magnets to the iron cores of the coils. And that I had used magnets to offset or neutralize this attraction. His response was to babble on about how there is no clogging at speed so my magnetic neutralization was an unnecessary waste. What he HASN’T gotten through his head is that clogging has NOTHING to do with what I am talking about. Magnetic drag is REAL, and you have to compensate for it or pay the price in high amp draw and burnt up motors.

And the FINAL step is to learn to run the motor on the 3 battery system where you can recover at LEAST 70% of the input energy and recycle it. Or don’t I have shared as much as we are willing to share. We are now working behind the scenes with folks like NROC who, because of his Physics background, can look at some things most Electrical Engineers simply dismiss and say “maybe” there is something to that. I know has built some things that work based on what we have told him. We shared it all here. People just don’t listen. They aren’t willing to spend the time to build something and learn for themselves. We spent thousands of hours and thousands of dollars on this stuff. Nobody handed us anything. We owe nobody anything. Build it or don’t. Learn, or keep feeling your way in the dark. It’s all up to you. We left a path to follow. What you do is your choice.

Hi Turion,

Drag is a term seldom used in the field of electric machinery. Even when prefixed as magnetic drag, it can be vague. Isn't what you describe as drag what I refer to as torque opposing rotation in a generator?

Regards,

bi

[Turion]

over

bi,
You can do what you want. I brought this info to the forum to help people. That you choose to ignore the statements of support for my conclusions and position by NROC, who is both a Physicist and an Electrical Engineer who has actually INVESTIGATED many of the claims that Matt and I have made as well as the claims of others, speaks volumes about your true purpose here.

[bistander]

Saved

This is spot on. The fact is that the Lenz force does not appear instantaneously, it takes time for the currents to form in the materials, and therefore if your talented enough you can build a motor that has only frictional losses. NO LOSS DUE TO LENZ. Whether you do it by setting your impedance of the coil to avoid it like dave has, or whether you make your rotating element non circular like jim murray did in his dynaflux machine (which was patented by the way and authorised by the patent office as doing what it said it would do) is up to you. THESE DEVICES EXIST. Although they have received little attention by the main engineering body, which is an absolute afront to science in my opinion, they work.

With these motors it doesnt cost you anywhere near as much to turn you motor or generator as a conventional motor or generator. If you take it a step further like dave has then you can keep adding more coils to get more power out, you couple that with a 3bgs and your laughing. There really is no refuting these lenz free motors because they have to be demonstrated to a patent officer before approval. In the dynaflux machine even the non linear dynamics are shown in the patent just for engineers to see how it works because otherwise ot wouldnt have been accepted.

This is why i find bistanders opinion so dumb. 1) because he just quotes wikipedia and 2) because published info is already available.

I guess quantum well is the new bistander lol.

Anyway i wont waste anymore time driving traffic to biproducts thread. Dave only responds to you because he feels like it. We are doing the work behind the scenes to take these things much further than has been done already. I hope in the future people will thank Matt and Dave for how much they gave freely to people.

Quoted for later use.
bi

First edit:

This is why i find bistanders opinion so dumb. 1) because he just quotes wikipedia and 2) because published info is already available.

I have over 1600 posts. I recall only a few times that I quoted Wikipedia. I do quote other references. And always indicate such when I do. I don't understand point 2. I regularly search and read already published info. But because it is published doesn't make it true. Just because I post something doesn't make it true. I strive to only post truth and fact, but being human, I can be fooled or make errors. And unlike some here, I appreciate being corrected (preferably politely) as that is a good method of learning. But the reader needs to beware and check everything they see on the interwebs.

[BroMikey]

Hi Turion,

Drag is a term seldom used in the field of electric machinery. Even when prefixed as magnetic drag, it can be vague. Isn't what you describe as drag what I refer to as torque opposing rotation in a generator?

Regards,

bi

Bi writes " Hi Turion" /with a sigh/ his left wrist limp and
flopping over.

Here is the bi answer

bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,667
Electromagnetic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Excuse me, which of the four forces is Lorentz Force? Repeating what you previously posted does not answer the question. That explanation did not include any of the FOUR specific forces which are part of our current physics model and you know it. There are only FOUR forces. Which one is it? What’s wrong bi, are you afraid to say the words? Come on, you can do it. We all know that as soon as you DO you will have proven me right which is why you are going to such incredible lengths to avoid it when you obviously know the answer. You’re doing everything you can to keep from saying the words, but we’re all still waiting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Lorentz force, as it is commonly called, is that force between an electric charge and a magnetic field as described by Lorentz's force law. ...
What part of electric and magnetic do you not understand?

[bistander]

But no proof

bi,
You can do what you want. I brought this info to the forum to help people. That you choose to ignore the statements of support for my conclusions and position by NROC, who is both a Physicist and an Electrical Engineer who has actually INVESTIGATED many of the claims that Matt and I have made as well as the claims of others, speaks volumes about your true purpose here.

All this wonderful energy apparatus. Where is it? Still have it packed away Turion? Is NROC powering his University with it? Got proof of claims? No, just the same old BS. You've never have shown a valid demonstration to support claims and your arguments are weak and unconvincing.

I don't ignore NROC. I just disagree with him (or her, as the case may be). NROC is anonymous. Like me. I just deal with what he/she has written. I have no idea if credentials are true and don't much care. For all I know, NROC could be you under a different account. I'm not saying that is the case, and again I don't care.

Keep on trying. When you figure out it doesn't really work and wonder why, go back and read my posts. At least you try. Too bad you don't listen to reason. But I guess your fantasy is better than truth.

Regards,

bi

[BroMikey]

Back to School

Too bad you don't listen to reason.
But I guess your fantasy is better than truth.

Bi yer such a cripple when it comes to basic book smarts

Gravity

Of the fundamental forces, gravity has the farthest reach, but it's the weakest in actual magnitude.

It is a purely attractive force which reaches through even the "empty" void of space to draw two masses toward each other. It keeps the planets in orbit around the sun and the moon in orbit around the Earth.

Gravitation is described under the theory of general relativity, which defines it as the curvature of spacetime around an object of mass. This curvature, in turn, creates a situation where the path of least energy is toward the other object of mass.

Electromagnetism

Electromagnetism is the interaction of particles with an electrical charge. Charged particles at rest interact through electrostatic forces, while in motion they interact through both electrical and magnetic forces.

For a long time, the electric and magnetic forces were considered to be different forces, but they were finally unified by James Clerk Maxwell in 1864, under Maxwell's equations. In the 1940s, quantum electrodynamics consolidated electromagnetism with quantum physics.

Electromagnetism is perhaps the most prevalent force in our world, as it can affect things at a reasonable distance and with a fair amount of force.

Weak Interaction

The weak interaction is a very powerful force that acts on the scale of the atomic nucleus. It causes phenomena such as beta decay. It has been consolidated with electromagnetism as a single interaction called the "electroweak interaction." The weak interaction is mediated by the W boson (there are two types, the W+ and W- bosons) and also the Z boson.

Strong Interaction

The strongest of the forces is the aptly-named strong interaction, which is the force that, among other things, keeps nucleons (protons and neutrons) bound together. In the helium atom, for example, it is strong enough to bind two protons together even though their positive electrical charges cause them to repulse each other.

In essence, the strong interaction allows particles called gluons to bind together quarks to create the nucleons in the first place. Gluons can also interact with other gluons, which gives the strong interaction a theoretically infinite distance, although it's major manifestations are all at the subatomic level.

Unifying the Fundamental Forces

Many physicists believe that all four of the fundamental forces are, in fact, the manifestations of a single underlying (or unified) force which has yet to be discovered. Just as electricity, magnetism, and the weak force were unified into the electroweak interaction, they work to unify all of the fundamental forces.

The current quantum mechanical interpretation of these forces is that the particles do not interact directly, but rather manifest virtual particles that mediate the actual interactions. All of the forces except for gravity have been consolidated into this "Standard Model" of interaction.

The effort to unify gravity with the other three fundamental forces is called quantum gravity. It postulates the existence of a virtual particle called the graviton, which would be the mediating element in gravity interactions. To date, gravitons have not been detected, and no theories of quantum gravity have been successful or universally adopted.

[Turion]

Sorry

sorry bi, but it works exactly as I stated. I’ve had different versions of the generator up and running many, many, MANY times over the years. Each version I built was an improvement over the prior version in both mechanical operation and electrical output. Each version, and there have been several, as I have documented in pictures and video on the forum, cost well over $1,000.00. I’m quite happy with the performance I’ve seen.

And no, it is not packed away. My big generator with 12 coils and 12 magnets on the rotor is down in Santa Clara at my machinists place. That’s a 7 hour minimum round trip.

I have two other versions here. Both are in pieces. One has places for 12 coils and a rotor with six magnets. That machine I only use for testing a couple coils at a time since it was built before I figured out magnetic neutralization and can’t run with all the coils in place. The other has places for 10 coils and has a rotor with 12 magnets. Unfortunately all the coils for both machines are SLAG, as overheating has been a problem from day one and the insulation melts off the coils destroying their output performance, as will as their ability to run “neutral.” It overheated the last time I ran the 10 coil machine so I cannibalizes coils from the 12 coil machine and it happened AGAIN. That’s several hundred dollars down the toilet in wire each time it happens. It is only recently that I figured out a solution, which I have tried with ONE coil and my coil tester and it seems to work. Extend the core out the back of the coil and into a piece of pvc filled with water. The water is heated and so is the pvc, but it dissipates the heat into the air enough to keep the core for overheating and melting the wire.

I have since wound eight more coils to put into the 10 coil machine, and as soon as I have time to wind a couple more coils, I will have enough to put the 10 coil machine back together. It may or may not put out 2000 watts, but will be enough to prove the machine works and those with a brain will understand that the 12 coil machine puts out MORE. Somehow the base plate for the whole machine went missing in the move and I had to get a new one, so putting it back together will be a process. But I’ll get there eventually.

[BroMikey]

..........It is only recently that I figured out a solution, which I have tried with ONE coil and my coil tester and it seems to work.
Extend the core out the back of the coil and into a piece of pvc filled with water. The water is heated and so is the pvc, but it dissipates the heat into the air enough to keep the core for overheating and melting the wire.

I have since wound eight more coils to put into the 10 coil machine, and as soon as I have time to wind a couple more coils, I will have enough to put the 10 coil machine back together. It may or may not put out 2000 watts, but will be enough to prove the machine works ..........so putting it back together will be a process. But I’ll get there eventually.

That's so awesome Dave. Glad so glad to hear you are moving along
really fast. You don't let any moss grow under your feet. You have got
me thinking about cooling again so when the time comes I won't burn
any coils. That's a lot of payola.

I would be interested to hear what you were going to say if only bi
would have answered the questions in chronological order. Maybe we
could all have learned something one more time. I guess bi doesn't
want to learn about how science connects to the process.

[Turion]

Coil cores

A different core material, like ferrite, may ALSO solve the heating problem. Haven’t had TIME to test it yet.

[BroMikey]

A different core material, like ferrite, may
ALSO solve the heating problem. Haven’t had TIME to test it yet.

I noticed that your current setup mechanically requires that your coils
be closed in from all sides. This means no air vents on either side while
plastic can be a pretty good insulator. So heat builds up normally and
has nowhere to go. I will assume you removed a couple of panels and
tried to blow heat off and it didn't work.

Your idea to use water cooling is compact allowing you to keep the present
format or layout for your generator head. With water cooling you can
drill one small hole to introduce a pipe so in this way no changes to your
setup are needed.


The make your system into an OPEN CAGE

Making your system into an open cage style generator might use air to
be pumped in and out of the box. A fan installed right on the drive shaft
wilth paddle blades 1/2" wide should be plenty to move some air without
much loss. Composite materials that are non magnetic can be used to
heatsink to the 1" extension of core material.

You can try them both and not change much which is good.

Normally if one of my motors gets a broke cage air paddle the motor
will begin to heat up within minutes or even seconds it will build up enough
to hurt my fingers when it is touched. The amount of air pumped seems
so small you wouldn't think that small paddle was doing much of anything.

You can barely feel the air moving yet it consistently removes tiny amounts
of heat which is keeping it warm only to the touch.

[Quantum_well]

Honesty.

Throughout this debate there's one thing I don't doubt and that's Turion's sincerity.
Turion believes in his findings and I think his dedication is admirable.

[aljhoa]

One Day

Al

[BroMikey]

Throughout this debate there's one thing I don't doubt and that's Turion's sincerity.
Turion believes in his findings and I think his dedication is admirable.

The guy has 3 friggin masters degrees, he not as stupid as so many
insist. School teaches us that we were twisted, perverted from a young
age when we are most susceptible. Even thru all of that Dave got past
all the programming and found the truth.

He is not a fool. He is catching up to me.

[bistander]

Conflow Power

Hi all,

I'm not sure if this deserves a thread unto itself, so figured I'd throw it up here. I just stumbled across it today and in no way endorse it, nor do I have any connection to anybody connected to this. This is posted here as information only, and a place to start discussion. I am interested if anybody can supply additional information, and all opinions welcome.

ConFlow

From that link:

ConFlow Power has developed a renewable generator using a combination of Nano technology and Nano film, coupled with natural gases in the atmosphere, to create a totally self-renewing power source, hence the name ConFlow for a ‘Continuous Flow’. ConFlow Power looks like a battery and acts like a battery, but is in fact a combination of an on-board generator and a capacitor, performing similarly to a battery or electric power source. The ConFlow Device can be used in a multitude of sectors, including electronics, automobiles, computing and mobile communications. It also has heavy industrial capabilities and applications that stretch into many, if not all, landscapes.

Who knows? Maybe this is Turion's new device.

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

ConFlow

Looks like someone thinks it deserves a separate thread. So let's use:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post321229