Energy Propagation

[vidbid]

Thanks

Cool to see a new topic on an old video! Vidbid try this circuit in ltspice, works much better. (While less interactive than Falstad simulator it is a great deal more accurate).


Pink wave form is current through the R2 (output), green is current through R1 (input). As you can see the green is negligable and is only topping up what is lost in the LC. Pink on the other hand is alive and well.


The circuit parameters (L/C) are quite different from what Armagdn03 used in his video but the concept he has shown in that video holds for all resonant circuits.

I encourage you to play with the spice directive for the coupling of the coils (change the 1 in "K1 L1 L2 1" to any number between 1 and 0) then re-tune with the AC Analysis tool, as well as changing the inductance and capacitance of the primary and secondary sides while maintaining the same resonant frequency (an easy was to do this is doubling inductance and halving capacitance or visa versa) and observe the changes in amplitude between the primary and secondary. Some interesting observations can be made there.

I've attached the spice model to help speed up the process of playing.

On a slightly different note, I sent you a skype message the other day Armagdn, not sure if you got it but letting you know just in case you didn't.

Thanks, Raui! I'll give it a try.

[Raui]

Raui my old friend!!! Good to see you still around. I have not signed into that skype handle in years, not sure I still remember it. My personal email is manriquea@my.uwstout.edu, Ill work on getting skype back up. Thanks for the assist on the simulator.

Likewise! When I saw you post I thought I would get in touch! No problems, I see too many people using the Falstad simulator which is good for some things but really diverges from reality sometimes. I've sent you some mail

@Bogluslaw
Yes you can alter the resistance of the simulated inductor by right clicking it, you'll see the options for the resistance in there. You can also just add a series resistor, I tend to do the latter when I want to play with an inductor's resistance as it's more explicit. I would never want to discourage experimentation (except for the chance someone would blow themselves up but alas, who I I to stop them! ) but I can see some obstacles getting it to work how you've described. I am open to being wrong and have been on many an occasion. I look forward to hearing how your experiment goes! The one question I will ask is this, is a resistor the best load for this type of circuit?

I recently met someone who is trying to assist another group they know of who apparently have a working prototype of a water heater similar but not exactly the same (from the limited idea I have of it) as your idea, idk how much was said in confidence but I do feel comfortable in pointing out that water is an excellent dielectric

[lotec]

Top and tail leds, what happens?

[boguslaw]

Can L1 have resistance too in LTSpice or need to add additional resistor ?
I wonder if such simple design without secondary can allow the same power flowing throught the inductor L1 but with limited input due to reactance.
In other words : can we provide a simple resistive heater with coiled resistance wire with matched capacitor and obtain the same amount of heat produced as in DC operation while maintaining low current input ?

I hope you find it adequately interesting to test in reality

[Armagdn03]

Raui my old friend!!! Good to see you still around. I have not signed into that skype handle in years, not sure I still remember it. My personal email is manriquea@my.uwstout.edu, Ill work on getting skype back up. Thanks for the assist on the simulator.

[Raui]

Cool to see a new topic on an old video! Vidbid try this circuit in ltspice, works much better. (While less interactive than Falstad simulator it is a great deal more accurate).


Pink wave form is current through the R2 (output), green is current through R1 (input). As you can see the green is negligable and is only topping up what is lost in the LC. Pink on the other hand is alive and well.


The circuit parameters (L/C) are quite different from what Armagdn03 used in his video but the concept he has shown in that video holds for all resonant circuits.

I encourage you to play with the spice directive for the coupling of the coils (change the 1 in "K1 L1 L2 1" to any number between 1 and 0) then re-tune with the AC Analysis tool, as well as changing the inductance and capacitance of the primary and secondary sides while maintaining the same resonant frequency (an easy was to do this is doubling inductance and halving capacitance or visa versa) and observe the changes in amplitude between the primary and secondary. Some interesting observations can be made there.

I've attached the spice model to help speed up the process of playing.

On a slightly different note, I sent you a skype message the other day Armagdn, not sure if you got it but letting you know just in case you didn't.

[vidbid]

Why did you throw full wave bridges in there? Diodes can cause clipping. I doubt that that simulation is accurate enough to demonstrate that, but still, my original circuit did not have those. Not to say you couldn't, but that's why I used a resistive load like incandescent bulbs.

I just put in the FWBR because I was using LEDs.

I'm having a problem modeling the circuit with the simulator.

I don't doubt for even a moment that the circuit works.

[Armagdn03]

Why did you throw full wave bridges in there? Diodes can cause clipping. I doubt that that simulation is accurate enough to demonstrate that, but still, my original circuit did not have those. Not to say you couldn't, but that's why I used a resistive load like incandescent bulbs.

[vidbid]

Simulator

For some reason, the circuit in the video doesn't work in the simulator, as illustrated by the third schematic.



https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?cct=$+1+0.000005+0.625470095193633+ 33+5+43%0Aw+240+176+192+176+0%0Aw+240+256+192+256+ 0%0Ac+192+176+192+256+0+0.000009999999999999999+-5.775940672112673%0Av+80+176+80+256+0+1+159.155+10 +0+0+0.5%0Aw+240+176+240+128+0%0Aw+240+256+240+304 +0%0Aw+240+304+80+304+0%0Aw+80+304+80+256+0%0Aw+80 +176+80+128+0%0Al+240+176+240+256+0+0.1+-0.0670542779041831%0Ad+240+128+288+80+2+default%0A d+192+80+240+128+2+default%0Ad+240+32+288+80+2+def ault%0Ad+192+80+240+32+2+default%0Aw+240+32+240+0+ 0%0Aw+240+0+80+0+0%0Aw+80+0+80+128+0%0Aw+192+80+16 0+80+0%0Aw+160+80+160+144+0%0Aw+160+144+320+144+0% 0Aw+288+80+320+80+0%0A162+352+80+352+144+2+default-led+1+0+0+0.01%0Aw+320+80+352+80+0%0Aw+320+144+352 +144+0%0Av+416+176+416+288+0+1+159.155+10+0+0+0.5% 0Aw+576+176+576+144+0%0Ad+576+144+624+96+2+default %0Ad+528+96+576+144+2+default%0Ad+528+96+576+48+2+ default%0Ad+576+48+624+96+2+default%0Aw+576+48+576 +16+0%0Aw+576+16+416+16+0%0Aw+416+16+416+176+0%0Al +576+176+576+256+0+0.1+7.606334670731876%0Aw+528+9 6+496+96+0%0Aw+496+96+496+160+0%0Aw+496+160+672+16 0+0%0Aw+624+96+672+96+0%0A162+672+96+672+160+2+def ault-led+1+0+0+0.01%0Ac+576+256+576+336+0+0.00001+-938.9000653929287%0Aw+576+336+416+336+0%0Aw+416+33 6+416+288+0%0Av+768+208+768+272+0+1+159.155+10+0+0 +0.5%0Aw+768+272+880+272+0%0Aw+880+272+880+256+0%0 Aw+880+256+832+256+0%0Aw+832+208+880+208+0%0Ac+832 +208+832+256+0+0.00001+4.234457622416979%0AT+880+2 08+960+256+2+0.1+1+0.01014735322846631+-0.06992442300395967+0.999%0Ac+960+256+1040+256+0+0 .00001+-0.9329180901231808%0Aw+960+208+960+176+0%0Aw+960+1 76+928+176+0%0Aw+1040+256+1040+208+0%0Aw+992+208+9 92+144+0%0Ad+992+144+1024+112+2+default%0Ad+960+11 2+992+144+2+default%0Ad+960+112+992+80+2+default%0 Ad+992+80+1024+112+2+default%0Aw+960+112+944+112+0 %0Aw+944+112+944+160+0%0Aw+944+160+1072+160+0%0Aw+ 1024+112+1040+112+0%0Aw+1040+112+1040+80+0%0Aw+104 0+80+1072+80+0%0A162+1072+80+1072+160+2+default-led+1+0+0+0.01%0Aw+928+176+928+48+0%0Aw+928+48+992 +48+0%0Aw+992+48+992+80+0%0Aw+992+208+1040+208+0%0 Aw+880+208+880+176+0%0Aw+880+176+816+176+0%0Aw+816 +176+816+144+0%0Ad+816+144+848+112+2+default%0Ad+7 84+112+816+144+2+default%0Ad+784+112+816+80+2+defa ult%0Ad+816+80+848+112+2+default%0A162+896+64+896+ 160+2+default-led+1+0+0+0.01%0Aw+848+112+864+112+0%0Aw+864+112+8 64+64+0%0Aw+864+64+896+64+0%0Aw+896+160+768+160+0% 0Aw+768+160+768+112+0%0Aw+768+112+784+112+0%0Aw+81 6+80+816+64+0%0Aw+816+64+752+64+0%0Aw+752+64+752+1 76+0%0Aw+752+176+768+176+0%0Aw+768+176+768+208+0%0 A

or

http://tinyurl.com/yyelcglc


Image Source: https://postimg.cc/WD4TTR2K/54127a3e

[vidbid]

online circuit simulator



Based on values found in https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tex...uit-resonance/

To see online circuit simulator

https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?cct=$+1+0.000005+0.8372897488127266 +50+5+43%0AT+240+176+416+256+0+0.1+1+0.00005687677 4040653705+0.09948247117298062+0.999%0A181+416+176 +480+176+0+300.6741295351522+10+10+0.4+0.4%0Ac+480 +176+480+256+0+0.000009999999999999999+1.105547423 7398257%0Aw+416+256+480+256+0%0Aw+240+176+192+176+ 0%0Aw+240+256+192+256+0%0Ac+192+176+192+256+0+0.00 0009999999999999999+1.052886168659392%0Av+80+176+8 0+256+0+1+159.155+10+0+0+0.5%0Aw+240+176+240+128+0 %0Aw+240+256+240+304+0%0Aw+240+304+80+304+0%0Aw+80 +304+80+256+0%0A181+80+128+240+128+0+300.672741212 7089+10+10+0.4+0.4%0Aw+80+176+80+128+0%0A

or

http://tinyurl.com/y2anfemb

Maybe somebody can tweek it.


image source: https://postimg.cc/Z075YyTw/b1c99d35

[lotec]

Cool video and thread. In the past I had wondered if someday in the future, when they have non-polarized caps, with a high enough Farad value that can handle the voltage, they might be able to run AC induction motors that way.

edit,,,
Maybe induction motor wasn't the best choice, maybe some other kind of motor

[vidbid]

It was mostly an iterative process. I picked a rather large coil (few hundred turns) and a smallish cap, say around 01µf. I placed them in parallel and used a frequency generator and oscilloscope to find their resonant frequency. Then I simply matched it on the second coil and cap. This way I essentially had two resonant systems matched to the same frequency. Simple as that.

you could also figure out the whole process on paper first with some minor adjustments. This would be helpful for example if you wanted the system to work at a specific frequency.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tex...uit-resonance/

Thanks.

So, basically, I need two identical coils and caps. I can find the inductance of the coils with an inductance meter.

Then just plug in the values in the formula to find the resonant frequency.

Then dial in the frequency generator to above frequency, fine tune, and then I should hit resonance.

That would make an awesome kit to sell on ebay.

Added content: I found a way to calculate the inductance of the coil.

Go here: https://www.eeweb.com/tools/coil-ind...CS%20TUTORIALS

Another L calculator: Coil32 - the coil inductance calculator

Coil on a ferrite core: Coil32 - Ferrite Rod Coil Calculator


Wire size conversion to mm: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/a...uge-d_731.html

[Armagdn03]

Please explain your method of finding resonant frequency

Two methods. One is to place the oscilloscope probe hear the coil and note when you have maximum peak to peak voltage. Two, place some sort of visual indicator in line with the resonant circuit....In this case a incandescent lamp. When the lamp is brightest you have minimum impedance within the circuit indicating resonant frequency.

[wyndbag]

Thank you

That was a very helpful demonstration of some basics for me. Somehow in a crude way it gave me a handle on how radio seems to work.

[wyndbag]

Thank you

That was a very helpful demonstration of some basics for me. So mehow in a crude way it gave me a handle on how radio seems to work.