Continued Tests of the 3 Battery System

[BroMikey]

Bro Mikey,
I would ask that you go back and look at the beginning and end times of every "Run" Luc did. The first run begins at 3:00 in the afternoon (post #7) and ends at about 8:56 AM the NEXT DAY (post #11, which is the FIRST battery rotation.) You have to look at the FIRST video to get the beginning time and the SECOND video to get the end time. This is 17 hours and 56 minutes of run time on the "First" run which I don't believe you accurately account for. The total number of hours I have, based on my spread sheet, is over 82 hours. Now I wouldn't stake my life on those numbers, and if I get some time today I will go back through them. Since they are all taken straight out of the videos, that is fairly easy to do. But you are only showing 57.5 hours and 68 as break even according to YOUR calculations. You also indicate the first day's test was 9 hours long. Something is out of whack. It may be me, and I will check my numbers, but here is what I have

3:00 PM to 8:56 AM 17.56
8:56 AM to 12:28 PM 15.32
8:37 AM to 12:17 AM 15:40
9:15 AM to 1:15 AM 16:00
9:00 AM to 2:06 AM 17:06
The last morning I do not have here. I think was about an hour. Haven't gone back and looked to make sure. I was looking at watt hours and didn't write down how long the test ran.

Dave

First of all Dave I want to thank you, Matt and Carrol for all of your hard
work over the years. I don't want to leave the impression of ingratitude
by these some what rather abrasive sounding remarks I let loose
of on the thread here.

You guys should know by now I am all about the drama. I knew already
that the earlier pdf was not the end but we need to remember the many
thousands who only see that PDF, they build it and they think it is the same
as the later versions where 3 strands of #23 are used which dramatically
lowers the resistance.

Next Dave i will say this to you personally, no one has cared for my desire
to learn extra energy circuits than you. This makes you our captain and
we already know who the general is as stated by you.

Don't misunderstand some of my posts where I let on like some toddler/
beginner who doesn't know how to operate an ohm meter, I am doing
that to air out my earlier frustrations that 1000's have right now.

Grandpa was an electronics wiz a left over warrior who was from Finland.
These people are smart. I started at age 8 years watching him build and
never lost interest to date. I have spent years in the library's around the
USA during my travels where i lived in SC,NV,CA,TX,MI,FL I copied circuit
diagrams. This was well before the internet.

I have been submersed in looking at circuits so simple tasks like winding
a motor is easy to understand those.

When I went back to the beginning of the thread I saw blank pages and
still those blank pages are making me wonder what they are. I will go back
again and try to see how many hours I can count up for the first day.

All of you guys are great people so this is a good thing to me. Luc wants
to see the extra and I can't blame him, it is time to build something we
can make a little money with so the wheels of progress can get this
entry. It will be like an arrow stuck where it can't be pulled out and the
people will have to deal with it.

It is high time to get to the bottom of this stuff. I will always be as
nice of a guy as you have all witnessed but we can all be pushed over
the brink.

Luc has shown us that he is desperate to find a real operating, practical
circuit. We are having our day in court so to speak. If I knew just what
to offer in video form I would but my generator section has not been
fully populated with 24 strand coils yet.

Luc is our Drill Sargent who is expecting those who have some spit and
polish to come foreword and show what their abilities have to offer.

It's put up time. I think of it as a small test.and I have nothing.

[THEminoly]

Anyone that wants to claim OU or a gain using a Bedini SSG please present your test data (in another topic) for evaluation as I'm doing here.
I've never seen any proof of gain in my tests in the past or any reliable documented proof by any others to this date.
I'm aware of all the claims that keep coming back up in free energy forum like a king of perpetual folklore by many who don't even build and or know how to do correct power tests.
Prove the talk and start your own topic to present test results. Let us know once that's done or don't bring up non factual information again. We have enough of that to deal with at this time.

Kind regards

Luc

Thought you had an open mind, I mentioned this only to support you and your method of pulsing the coil/motor, but the mere mention of Bedini sent your mind someplace else just as it did on the other forum



Now we're up to 85.23 hours, all the more reason to run the direct load on those batteries, just for the sake of curiosity you took it that far, why not. I think the next runs will be better though so it may not matter anyway.

Dave, am I wrong, do you see the missing component. Perhaps it's something that I alone add to my system...

[citfta]

Luc,

If you get the motor back together and it still overheats and draws too much current I would strongly then suspect a shorted winding. Of course a turn or two shorted out will not show up with an ohmmeter. As far as I know the only way to test for a shorted turn on an armature is to use a growler. It has been so long since I used one I don't remember the exact procedure for doing that but most likely if you can get access to one there should be some instructions or perhaps someone who will know how to do that. Or maybe you already know how. I am also not too sure if a growler would even properly test a rewound motor like that but I think it will.

I thought I had ground off the tab so that the end bell could be rotated on that motor but it may have been on another one I was experimenting with. Hopefully Matt's video will be some help to you. I am quite sure that I have run that motor in the past for several hours at a time with no problems and no overheating so something has changed. Maybe it was only the carbon build up you found. I hope so. Looking forward to seeing it run properly again.

Sorry for the slow response. It has been a very busy day.

Carroll

[gotoluc]

Thought you had an open mind, I mentioned this only to support you and your method of pulsing the coil/motor, but the mere mention of Bedini sent your mind someplace else just as it did on the other forum

Sorry about coming down on you over the Bedini stuff.
I've been in this for 10 years and at first wanted to believe all the stuff he was teaching. However, never once have I seen a gain and never have I seen proof of gain provided by someone else to date, let alone the claim of batteries charging with less power if you use pulses compared to DC.
So when someone starts talking the Bedini stuff I clamp down right away and ask for proof.
There's a lot more to it then I can publicly share but I can't do it at this forum.

Now we're up to 85.23 hours, all the more reason to run the direct load on those batteries, just for the sake of curiosity you took it that far, why not. I think the next runs will be better though so it may not matter anyway.

I agree and the test is running at this time. Followups to come

Kind regards

Luc

[gotoluc]

That is what I am going by Bro. The test begins at 3:00 Oct. 30. This is shown on post 7.LOOK at the first line of the post from Luc. YESTERDAY OCT 30th he started the test at 3:00
On post 11 it is 8:45 and it is either PM on the 30th or AM on the 31st. That is the 1st rotation of the battery and the system is still running when the video starts. If t hasn't been running all night, WHY is it running? Plus look at how many watt hours are already on the meter. I assumed it was 8:45 AM, since then there are postings every couple hours after that for that ENTIRE DAY. I can't see the pictures either, so maybe I missed something. I'm just going by the info in the videos.

Anyone is welcome my spreadsheet. You can check it against the videos. I may be off by a minute or two here and there, but I'm pretty sure the number of hours is correct.
3:00 PM to 8:56 AM 17.56
8:56 AM to 12:28 PM 15.32
8:37 AM to 12:17 AM 15:40
9:15 AM to 1:15 AM 16:00
9:00 AM to 2:06 AM 17:06
9:00 AM to 10:20 AM 1:20 = 83.5 Total hours.

Dear Dave and everyone
The numbers look good to me

Thanks for providing this data.

Kind regards

Luc

[BroMikey]

Yes and do we still agree that the theoretical runtime straight
off two 5ah batteries in parallel would be approx. 60hrs?

[Satyam108]

DDS Function Generator

Hey Dave,
Thanks for the clarification of the total run time, and Luc, thanks for running the comparison test of just A1+B2.

Luc,
Is this the DDS FG you have:
https://www.tequipment.net/UnisourceDFG-1010.html

Thanks
Jim

[gotoluc]

Luc,

If you get the motor back together and it still overheats and draws too much current I would strongly then suspect a shorted winding. Of course a turn or two shorted out will not show up with an ohmmeter. As far as I know the only way to test for a shorted turn on an armature is to use a growler. It has been so long since I used one I don't remember the exact procedure for doing that but most likely if you can get access to one there should be some instructions or perhaps someone who will know how to do that. Or maybe you already know how. I am also not too sure if a growler would even properly test a rewound motor like that but I think it will.

I thought I had ground off the tab so that the end bell could be rotated on that motor but it may have been on another one I was experimenting with. Hopefully Matt's video will be some help to you. I am quite sure that I have run that motor in the past for several hours at a time with no problems and no overheating so something has changed. Maybe it was only the carbon build up you found. I hope so. Looking forward to seeing it run properly again.

Sorry for the slow response. It has been a very busy day.

Carroll

Thanks Carroll for all you help and advice.

The cleaning of gaps between commutator segments and polishing of the commutator surface seems to have help. The motor is more stable and current is down to 1.2 amps at 12vdc.
As for the tabs you had already grounded them off. So I adjusted the timing to get highest rpm and would like to keep rotating the magnet position even more but the screws rest on the magnets. Perhaps I'll drill new hole and use new screw to further adjust for maximum RPM with minimum current.

Kind regards

Luc

[gotoluc]

Luc's Solid State Relay looks to be earlier model of this one, which has a DC-DC converter in it
http://resonancegroupusa.com/equipment/003.jpg

Jim

No, I think the difference is there's 2 models of these SSR boards. The link you show is the one for less current but higher frequencies. The model I have is the SSR 30A that handles more current but limited to 500kHz. It also has an on board DC to DC converter so you have a regulated 5vdc and 15vdc output to power other components like an optical sensor for motor timing switching and so on.

Luc,
Is this the DDS FG you have:
https://www.tequipment.net/UnisourceDFG-1010.html

Thanks
Jim

Looks exactly like it but seems to be a different name. The one I use is named ATTEN.
Here is one for $200. on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/172949922411

Regards

Luc

[gotoluc]

11/05/17 midnight 1st update of part 2 Testing the single battery Motor Run Time

Link to video: https://youtu.be/WGAoPzL_rkU

So 8 hours of run time and it consumed 16 Wh so that's 2 Wh per hour divided by maximum battery capacity of 70 Wh (at low current draw) = about 35 hours of run time per battery at best, so maybe we'll only get 70 hours of motor run time or less with the two batteries which means the 3 battery system may have an extended motor run time of 13 hours or more. Time will tell.

Starting to look interesting again!

[Satyam108]

SSR, DDS FG, and Pulses, Pulses, Pulses!

No, I think the difference is there's 2 models of these SSR boards. The link you show is the one for less current but higher frequencies. The model I have is the SSR 30A that handles more current but limited to 500kHz. It also has an on board DC to DC converter so you have a regulated 5vdc and 15vdc output to power other components like an optical sensor for motor timing switching and so on.



Looks exactly like it but seems to be a different name. The one I use is named ATTEN.
Here is one for $200. on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/172949922411

Regards

Luc

Thanks Luc - yes the model ATF-40D you have has more bandwidth. Good deal there on ebay. I like that you can set the duty cycle down to 1%. My homebrew FG gets squirrely if I try to run it down that far - but IMO the sharp unidirectional pulses are the key to disturb the Aether - rattle the key in the lock to get it to turn.

I didn't find anywhere on their webpages to purchase any of their products nor any mention of the SSR-30A. Know another source?

Thanks for running the A1 battery runtime test and posting video - and for the HD quality on all the videos in this series. And for turning on auto captions. VERY helpful.

YES! It IS interesting - especially when you consider that with the 3BSTP, not only was the motor run for a total of 83.5 hours, ALL 3 batteries were CHARGED several times.

[Satyam108]

Testing the Bedini Hypothesis

Sorry about coming down on you over the Bedini stuff.
I've been in this for 10 years and at first wanted to believe all the stuff he was teaching. However, never once have I seen a gain and never have I seen proof of gain provided by someone else to date, let alone the claim of batteries charging with less power if you use pulses compared to DC.
So when someone starts talking the Bedini stuff I clamp down right away and ask for proof.
There's a lot more to it then I can publicly share but I can't do it at this forum.

Kind regards

Luc

Love him, hate him or just be indifferent, this forum would not exist - especially these 3B threads, if not for John Bedini. If I had the time and the cool lab you have access to, I would post a thread "The Bedini Hypothesis." Or "Testing the Bedini Hypothesis." It would begin with this diagram that he allegedly handed out at the 1984 Tesla Centennial Celebration in Colorado Springs:


I have wondered what would have happened to battery C3 in your test if it had been rotated as in the above diagram? Would whatever ailed it (sulfation?) have been cured with one trip around the horn?

I would have all the testing and battery swapping automated, and incorporate what has been learned about battery chemistry, i.e., have FIVE matched batteries and set up rotation to follow the hypothesis, but allowing the just charged battery and the just discharged (most discharged?) battery to "sit this one out" - let them sit out one swap round for their chemistry to settle. (Or whatever it does.) This as suggested by Matt in this post:
http://www.energeticforum.com/289193-post967.html
and have all the data uploaded from the Arduino UNO into a data base or at minimum a spreadsheet

Begin with a maximally safely discharged battery in the low side - charging - position as Battery 3 is in Round 1 of the above diagram.

Yeah, I know, if wishes were horses, beggars would ride!
Regards
Jim

[Satyam108]

Thanks For the 3OT Crystals & Harmonic Current Links

I formed the opinion like you Satyam that the impulse wave is critical EPD goes into depth on this very different electricity here for anybody interested in revision
https://www.google.hu/url?sa=t&rct=j...2VSWjIbjNHJptQ
For anyone in doubt that is an impulse wave that Luc is producing although its all relative of course
one man's square wave could be another's impulse the time axis is arbitrary and relative.
As EPD points out this form and type of electricity officially doesn't exist. It isn't taught, there's no text books on the library shelves to go and read. No formula and no ohms law. I also want to make it clear that there are forces that still seek to keep that information hidden. All you see are secondary effects which we try to interpret. quick tempting glimpses of what could be.
There are some huge clues however , one enormous clue is provided by Luc almost as an aside in his resonance video – Mathematically its possible to create any symmetrical waveform from a sine wave. The sine wave being harmonic in composure and the square wave overtones. Luc points out that the square wave can be made resonant. Resonant into a crystal structure with the right Q factor and impedance matching and – Bingo. This is why the 'bad battery' played such a part. Extremely high resistance ensured a very high Q factor. As this has previously been accomplished with only two batteries you can take it to the bank that your watching – series resonance as opposed to parallel
To hazard a guess at what's actually happening though that crystal lattice you need to look at radio theory. I say Guess because as I pointed out the wave and its electricity doesn't exists officially so whatever your assuming in standard dogma is wrong.- your poking a secret with a sharp stick certain folks involved in the free energy circus don't want don't want revealed. IMHO
The clues are here a/ in crystal theory
https://www.electronicproducts.com/P..._crystals.aspx

The crystal (or in our case millions of crystals) follow a overtone progression ( overtone because its series resonance with an impulse wave) at resonance they all vibrate sympathetically and generate much in the fashion of piezo Quartz.
and b/ in heavy power -This same progression can be found in armature reaction and PF correction non linear loads , (like switching armatures) or bedini energisers here it is
Effects of Harmonic Currents
do you see the progression ? 3 ,5,7,9 The 3rd and 9th overtone are a clockwise progression if I remember correctly. The mean of this seqence is of course 6 - If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, - perhaps Luc may have a bit of luck and also then be kind enough to show us ? lets hope so

Have been EPD fan for years but he lost me with Steinmetz et al. And Ed Leedskalnin pretty much accused JJ Thompson of being drunk when he created the "electron." Videos w/o captions are frustrating to me because my hearing is so poor. Just ONE reason why I appreciate Luc's excellent video documentation.

And yes, I'm pretty much OCD on 3,6,9 now. LOL!

[BroMikey]

Battery spec's

Each manufacturer has a rating for amp hour capacity and we all
know that the C/20 rating is going to give the very most. If we load
a 5ah battery at 1 amp hoping to get 5 hrs out of it we will be
disappointed as we are not within the C/20 operation, instead there
are friction losses on the lead plates due to heating by way of
excessive amp handling.

A 1 amp load may only last 2 hrs at best if it is a brand new battery
and each time you discharge that battery at the C/5 rate it becomes
internally damaged.

If we load that battery at 500ma we are running a C/10 rate and again
the battery can never give it's full capacity due to plate heating losses.

Probably a C/10 delivery rate using this half amp figure might not go much
over 3.5hrs with the brand new battery.

However if we use the C/20 rate to get the maximum our amp draw will
fall to 1/4 amp or 250ma. In this range plate heating losses are nearly
non existent and we get the full rated capacity of the battery at 20 hrs
of runtime for a 1/4 amp.

This means the 5ah battery can hold 60 watt hours at the C/20 rates
which is 5amps X 12vdc = 60WH

What I find very interesting is that each time one of these small batteries
is rotated into the 3rd position for charging every hour it can only
collect 80 percent of the charge offered to it.

So the 135Wh going thru the motor is one thing but the 130wh that
went thru the 3rd battery position during the entire test only represents
80 percent of what was offered to it. This means that somewhere
around or over 160wh was offered to the 3rd battery position and it
could only absorb 130wh of it.

Yet with all of these losses the number of hours of runtime still
far exceeds a 100 percent return which is impossible by engineering
standards.

Where are these invisible 30wh recorded at in the experiment?
Where did they come from? How do we account for these units wasted
on lead plates that are inefficient. We are burning up power on all of
our recharging.
And still we are way ahead.


@Luc when i looked on the web here is what I found.

12.6v - 100%

12.4v - 75%

12.2v - 50%

12.0v - 25%

11.8v - 0%

So this means that your 12.2v reading is showing a half of a battery
charge and the AH or oops I mean WATT HOURS are showing just about
half of the calculation of 60wh you came up with,

Great work Luc and next time I run the numbers I'll be more careful,
you know it was an honest mistake on my part.

Thanks Carroll for defending Luc, he is a great guy, smart and Matt's
video really showed me things i never knew.

Thanks Guys.

Think of how Dave must feel. He has to be the one to come foreword
with basic math to defend himself. He has been challenged on this stuff
for decades, embarrassing.

Maybe we can be more attentive as a collective next time and not
lean so much on Luc for everything.

[citfta]

C20 means to discharge a battery at 20 times it's ah capacity. C/20 means to discharge the battery at 1/20th of it's ah capacity. There is a huge difference! Luc is doing it right. BroMikey I am again asking you to please let Luc do his tests and quit butting in with information that is usually wrong. You are only creating more confusion for those that may not be advanced enough to know the difference.

Respectfully,
Carroll