No announcement yet.

"Plasma Vortex Motor".

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "Plasma Vortex Motor".

    I'm starting this new thread because the "Plasma Vortex Motor" concept folded out of the "Oscillating Reed switch motor" thread, but no longer involves a "Reed switch".

    Proto G has 50amps going into his electrode with an output in excess of 12,000 volts:

    "The magnetic field from this neodymium ring magnet is massive compared to the ceramic ring magnet. 13,200 Gauss of the neodymium compared to about 2,000 Gauss of the ceramic ring magnet. You might notice that the arc is bulging out the front quite a bit. Not only do we have the Lorentz force acting on the moving charges particles, but the magnetic field is strong enough to interact with the magnetic field created by the current flowing through the arc. The magnetic field of the ceramic ring magnet does exert a force on the arc but it isn't strong enough to make it bulge. Of you watch the end of the first vortex video where I used the neon sign transformer, you'll see that the arc is also bulging but it's bulging because there is such a stronger magnetic field being created from the higher current that it starts interacting with the weaker magnetic field of the ceramic magnet".

    The spinning magnetic flux in Teslas, generated in this video, should be dense enough to generate close to one horse power with over 600 watts of input. Proto G is using his "Dynamo" as an audio speaker, apparently oblivious to it's awesome magnetic field power, which is invisible an undetectable. The intention of this thread is to modify and adapt Proto G's "Lorentz Force Plasma Vortex Generator" into an electric motor. This motor should run at 100% efficiency with no BEMF.

    My youtube comment to Proto G:

    "I initiated a thread on "Energetic Forum" entitled (Plasma Vortex Motor) as Allen Burgess. I plan to modify and adapt your design to power an electric motor. Awesome work! You're invited to participate in the discussion".
    Last edited by Allen Burgess; 04-15-2016, 12:47 AM.

  • #2
    Response from "Proto G".


    "Very cool, I'll keep an eye on the thread. One correction though, I'm only operating at 12.5V 18A for a total of 225 Watts. For this video, the arc is at 20kV measured with a high voltage probe. My power supply is capable of 50A and I went with that power supply in case I wanted to run two plasma speakers for stereo sound".

    O.K., correction: 225 watts input and 20,000 volts output! So, there should be nearly 1/3 hp available for work.

    The rotor will not slow down like an ordinary electric motor generating BEMF. "Lenz Drag" from an overhead, enclosing output coil would be necessary to slow the constantly accelerating neo sphere.
    Last edited by Allen Burgess; 04-15-2016, 01:33 AM.


    • #3
      Rotor acceleration.

      The bearingless neo sphere rotor acceleration from the magnetic plasma vortex would be the same as the acceleration of a rocket of continuous thrust in outer space. 1/3 of a hp per second squared to the speed of light, not a constant. The BEMF electric motor begins to fight itself, and self limits it's R.P.M. The magnet spinner will accelerate rapidly right up to super sonic and ultimately shattering speed. That's why once again I need to reinforce the caution of a protective PVC coupling, for anyone attempting this.
      Last edited by Allen Burgess; 04-15-2016, 03:38 PM.


      • #4
        Plasma vortex.

        I spent a good part of the "Oscillating Reed switch motor" thread establishing that passing a high voltage current through a magnetic electrode created a "Plasma Vortex" and that the electrical vortex generated a very powerful magnetic field. My "Reed switch oscillator" input was around 200 milliamps at 12 volts, or 1/4 of a watt. "Proto G's" input is 225 watts, nearly a thousand times greater. I spun a 3/4 inch diametric tube magnet up to sub sonic speeds with the 1/4 th of a watt; The proportion of power Proto G uses would (theoretically) allow us to spin a rotor of 75 feet in diameter, around the size of John Bedini's "Ferris Wheel" with the "Lorentz Force".

        Powering motor rotors with the "Lorentz Force" compared to induction coils would allow for an efficiency of at least 100%, perhaps even more due to the electron avalanche in plasma ionization. Eliminating electric motor losses from BEMF would shrink the need for electric power production on the Planet substantially with a subsequent cooling effect on the climate.

        "Nearly half of the electricity consumed in the manufacturing sector is used for powering motors, such as for fans, pumps, conveyors, and compressors. About two thirds of this machine-drive consumption occurs in the bulk chemicals, food, petroleum and coal products, primary metals, and paper industries".

        Proto G uses a "Magnet Electrode" for his high voltage input, just like the Reed switch. He photographed the spiraling plasma arc at 500 frames per second. I couldn't accomplish that with the Reed switch due to the miniature scale of the event. Believe me when I tell you that there's at least 225 watts worth of easily accessed spiraling magnetic force generated by the spinning plasma that goes completely unharvested by Proto G's "Vortex Dynamo".

        Once again let me stress the tremendous importance this relationship has for the efficiency of electric motors and the level of power consumption on the Planet. Demonstrating the motor power of "Lorentz Force" has never been accomplished before; This success will set a milestone in history.
        Last edited by Allen Burgess; 04-15-2016, 04:30 PM.


        • #5
          Giron magnetic shielding.

          Here's a video demonstrating the comparative power of different magnetic shields:

          Here's the site for "Giron", the best alloy:

          Magnetic Field Shielding Materials

          This looks like a strong alternative to a "Potting Ring". The steel potting ring may cause it's own seperate drag on the magnet rotor. The "Giron" eliminates a strong magnetic field entirely with two layers. Coupled with a non-magnetic stainless steel electrode, magnetic rotor drag should vanish entirely.

          Any size axial polarized ring should work. A 12,000 volt "Bug Zapper" circuit with a 9 D.C. volt battery input, hooked up to the two electrodes, should generate a nice spiraling plasma vortex. The ring magnet needs to have it's up facing side covered with a two layer doughnut shaped "Giron" shield, leaving the vortex hole uncovered. The neo sphere can spin on a pyrex plate overhead. Place a protective PVC coupling over the sphere magnet rotor for safty.
          Last edited by Allen Burgess; 04-15-2016, 07:19 PM.


          • #6
            Potting magnet.

            This is a "Potted Axial Ring Magnet" for $17.39, with all the force on one side only:

            6pcs 62kg Pulling Pot Magnet Dia 50x12 mm M10 Countersunk Hole Mounting Magnetic Strong Magnet Neodymium Permanent Magnets-in Magnetic Materials from Home Improvement on | Alibaba Group

            Straight Pulling Force on One Face: about 62 KG.

            I think all it would take would be to drill through and widen the counter sunk hole, and insert a correctly sized (1/8") non-magnetic stainless steel electrode in the center. Then we could spin high over the "plasma vortex" through a pyrex window on the other side! This looks about right for the modified low amp 12 KV "Bug Zapper" circuit!

            I believe this casing material may is magnetic nickel: (Plating/Coating: Ni-Cu-Ni (nickel) triple plated). This looks like a problem for this magnet electrode for the "Plasma Vortex" motor. We need to elevate the spinner.

            The black ring is a ferrite material inside the casing that is really redirecting the south pole to the side, not shielding it! A PVC safty coupling can glue right to the top.
            Last edited by Allen Burgess; 08-15-2017, 12:45 PM.


            • #7
              Bismuth or Pyrolytic Graphite cover.

              It may be necessary to either remove the nickel cover of the pot and fill it with bismuth metal, or cover the top with a layer of bismuth metal to counter act the magnetic drag.

              A thin slice of pyrolytic graphite, which is an unusually strong diamagnetic material, may help cancel the magnetic drag caused by the nickel case if placed over the cover.

              The Giron may be less magnetic then the triple nickel coated case of the potted magnet. Several layers of Giron shielding with a slice of pyrolytic graphite on top to neutralize the magnetic drag would allow us to increase the diameter of the axial ring magnet electrode over the potted magnet size. The pyrolytic graphite can be cut in pizza slice fashion to cover only the ring portion of the magnet and leave the hole open. Maybe sufficient pyrolytic graphite thickness can actually levitate the spinner a tiny amount.

              It may even help to cover the tip of the stainless steel electrode with this material, along with the inside of the PVC safty coupling. A titanium ring placed inside the ring magnet may help prolong the lifespan of the magnet electrode too.
              Last edited by Allen Burgess; 04-16-2016, 04:23 PM.


              • #8
                Ceramic collar bearing.

                Here's a picture of a ceramic collar bearing below: Seated inside the PVC coupling, this bearing could house a powerful diametric tube magnet. An axle can protrude from the upper end of the tube, with a toothed gear wheel attached to it, to do any kind of mechanical work. The base of the diametric tube magnet would be positioned directly over the "Plasma Vortex" pyrex insulator window. There, it can add quenching to help cool the electrodes.

                The rotating magnetic field motor power of the "Plasma Vortex" is overwhelming! This motor would be able to run at top speed with 100% efficiency unlike current inductance coil electric motors which are limited to a peak efficiency range RPM, due to the generation of BEMF, that causes the motors to fight themselves. The two plasma electrodes (ring magnet and stainless steel rod) need to ultimatly be sealed inside a vacuum tube to complete the motor design.
                Last edited by Allen Burgess; 08-15-2017, 12:45 PM.


                • #9
                  Single face magnet.

                  Let's take another look starting at 1:40 in this video of the single face potted magnet poles:


                  The problem is that the stainless steel case is magnetic. I believe a thin film of pyrolytic graphite can neutralize this attraction.

                  "Standard Pyrolytic Graphite Sheets provide excellent thermal conductivity that can withstand temperatures up to 400 Centigrade"!
                  Last edited by Allen Burgess; 08-15-2017, 12:46 PM.


                  • #10
                    Magnetic shielding effect.

                    Here we see how connecting opposite poles cancels the attraction. Same effect in the potted ring:


                    I wonder if attaching a second ring magnet of half the thickness to one opposed pole side would suppress half the force with the opposed pole and neutralize the other half with the attracting pole? Has anyone ever tried this?

                    Below we see a 50 mm square, 3 mm thick piece of pyrolytic graphite $55. form K&J magnetics and a 50 mm diameter potted magnet for $17.95

                    Drilling through the counter sunk hole in the potted magnet and through the pyrolytic graphite with the same diameter drill bit would allow us to glue the graphite over the potted magnet for a perfect fit. The hole would be around 2/3". This would act as the magnet electrode for a 1/8 th inch non-magnetic stainless steel electrode.

                    The spark from this 10,000 volt "Bug Swatter" looks just about the right length for the 2/3" potted magnet hole:


                    The combination of these componants should powerfully spin a neo magnet sphere on a plate overhead with the rotating "Plasma Vortex".
                    Last edited by Allen Burgess; 08-15-2017, 12:46 PM.


                    • #11
                      "The first concept that plasma fluid motions can generate magnetic fields, which is called dynamo mechanisem in astrophysics, came from Hale's observation of vortex features surrounding sunspots".

                      The Homopolar device (axial magnetic field with radial electric field), which generates the rotating plasma, acts as a Dynamo Mechanism and generates magnetic fields just like the sunspots.

                      That makes the "Plasma Vortex" motor a "Homopolar Magnetic Induction" motor.
                      Last edited by Allen Burgess; 04-17-2016, 10:29 PM.


                      • #12
                        "All these observations give rise to one big question. How does the solar magnetic field get there, i.e. how is it generated? Since the Sun is entirely made up of plasma, it is immediately clear that it cannot contain a big humongous magnet. Moreover, we also need to explain why the magnetic field changes in time and why it moves around. All these questions have not yet been fully answered. One thing that scientists agree on is that the magnetic field is generated by a mechanism called the solar dynamo and that this dynamo is also responsible for all the changes in the magnetic field.

                        However before we explain how the solar dynamo works, let us first have a quick look at mechanical dynamos.

                        The Mechanical Dynamo.

                        What is a dynamo?

                        A dynamo, also called an electric generator, is simply a machine that converts mechanical energy into electricity. Dynamos are most often found inside power plants. They generate the electricity you need to heat your house, to watch TV, to listen to your radio etc. The mechanical energy that powers the dynamo may be obtained from various sources as for example, wind turbines, water turbines at dams, and steam turbines.

                        How does it work?

                        The simplest of all the dynamos is the disk dynamo developed by Michael Faraday (1791-1867). It consists of a copper disk mounted so that part of the disk, from the center to the edge, is between the poles of a horseshoe magnet .

                        Schematic diagram of disk dynamo below

                        When you start to rotate the disk electrons start to move from the center of the disk to the edge of the disk and you obtain an electrical current. The flow of electrons is possible because in metals (not unlike in a plasma) electrons are not bound to the atoms and can move around freely. This way of generating electric currents is based on a physical principal called electromagnetic induction. This principle states that if a conductor (here the rotating disc) moves through a magnetic field (here provided by the horseshoe magnet) a electric current is obtained. The law of electromagnetic induction is often referred to as Faraday's law.

                        However, there exists another physical principal, which says that moving electrons, i.e. electrical currents, generate magnetic fields. Physicists call this Ampere's law after the French physicist Andre Marie Ampere (1775-1836). Therefore, the disk dynamo pictured below, does not only generate electric currents but also some magnetic field. As we can see electric currents and magnetic fields are very closely related. Simply speaking we can say that electric currents generate magnetic fields and vice versa that magnetic fields generate electrical currents.

                        The dynamo described here is the simplest possible electric generator that can be constructed. In a real world such a dynamo might provide the electricity for the lights on your bike. The dynamos in power stations are much more complicated machines but they still work in exactly the same way as the one described above".
                        Last edited by Allen Burgess; 08-15-2017, 12:46 PM.


                        • #13
                          How does the solar dynamo work?

                          "Since there are no magnets or rotating wheels inside the Sun you probably wonder how the solar dynamo works. In order to understand how the Sun generates magnetic fields you have basically only need to remember two facts. Firstly, the convection zone consists of a plasma, i.e. a gas that contains electrically charged particles. Secondly, the plasma in the convection zone is continuously moving around. Since the plasma is moving, the charged particles are moving and we obtain electrical currents. However, electrical currents generate magnetic fields (Ampere's law), as we mentioned above. These magnetic fields in turn generate electric currents (Faraday's law) and therefore we obtain the following loop: electric current - magnetic field - electric current - magnetic field - electric current - magnetic field etc, etc. As long as this loop is not interrupted the Sun will always produce magnetic fields.

                          However, this is a very simplified picture of the solar dynamo. This picture does not tell you anything about the properties of the motions of the plasma. The flow of the plasma has to fulfill certain properties for the dynamo to work.

                          These properties are:

                          1. The flow has to be turbulent. A laminar flow does not work. Thus the motions of the plasma have to look more like the motions of water in a boiling kettle, than the water emerging from your kitchen tap.

                          2. The flow has to be fully three-dimensional. The stream of water that emerges from you kitchen tap is only 1-dimensional, i.e. it flows in only one direction. Can you think of a 2-dimensional flow?

                          3. The flow has to be helical. By this we mean that the flow has to follow the path of a helix".

                          We can see from (Proto G's) time lapse photography that all these criteria are met. We can actually make out visible "Birkeland Strands" in his plasma arc video, so there's tremendous magnetic flux present in the vortex.
                          Last edited by Allen Burgess; 04-18-2016, 04:43 PM.


                          • #14
                            Dual magnet face cancelation.

                            We can see from the "Hard Drive" video, that when opposite magnet poles are attached to the Mu metal stator, the fields cancel out and there is no attraction on the metal side.

                            Imagine two large diameter neo rings, attached to a "U" shaped piece of "Mu" metal by opposite poles, so they were facing each other from opposite sides of the "U" legs; Firstly, the magnetic poles attached to the metal would be neutralized. Secondly, the rotation direction of each "Plasma Vortex" would be reversed. This would permit one "Diametric Tube Magnet" to turn between them, opposite rotations from each axial side!

                            Now, imagine two "Bismuth Collars" one on each inside end of the "Mu" metal over the ring vortex holes and a radial ring magnet in the center between the two diametric tube magnets, instead of a solid tube.

                            The three piece rotor could then be levitated from overhead by an adjustable permanent magnet drawing up on the radial ring magnet from the center, while the twin diametric tube rotors balanced inside the "Bismuth Collars" on each side. Pyrolytic graphite bushings may help on the ends.

                            The two opposite facing ring magnet fields attached to the "Mu" metal would be neutralized while the opposing plasma vortices could power the levitated rotor along the same axis with their counter rotating magnetic plasma fields!

                            Mechanical power could be drawn off by a magnetically coupled tube with axle protrusion.
                            Last edited by Allen Burgess; 04-18-2016, 07:05 PM.


                            • #15
                              Bismuth collar.

                              The "Mu metal U" strip can be much larger then a magnet pot and would permit a much wider ring magnet I.D. The "Bismuth Collar" could slide neatly inside the larger magnetic metal hole, and shield the diametric spinner fom attraction to the deflector plate. A pyrex window plug in the end of the collar can protect the spinner from the plasma arc. The rapidly rotating spinner would have a powerful quenching effect on the arc.