Motor Generators

[Turion]

I think probably everybody here has built some kind of coil that produces output when a rotor with magnets is turned near it.

imagine your only input cost is what it takes to turn that motor.

Imagine your output is whatever you were able to get out of that coil times as many coils as you are able to find places around the rotor for. That is your output.

There is no drag on the motor from adding additional iron mass that the motor must force the magnet past.
Magnetic neutralization cancels that.

There is no drag on the motor from Lenz. Tesla style coils eliminate that issue.

if you have a coil and you have such a rotor you can do the math to see what is possible. Or you can wait until after the conference and I will show you.

I’m almost done with my board. Ordered a 60 amp DC meter for my motor because I wanted to be able to show the drag as I added coils and I usually maxed out or came close to it with a 30 amp meter. Gotta be accurate or bi will whine. Is he still hiding in the dark? Such a coward!

[BroMikey]

What about all that junk Thane Heins surrounds himself with? Its all part of a plot to confuse.
Noise and sparks are all watts down the drain, as for kinetic energy, your guess is as good as mine.

Look at a universal vacuum cleaner electric motor. If COP is not your goal then I would have to say keep 200 year old
tech and collect the money. It's okay, we understand your embarrassment. You don't have the stamina like the rest of the university giants. Money is the goal, I understand.Happy banking that gets you off.

[Quantum_well]

All I'm asking for is a bit of honesty. Claims are easy, it's the other bit that's difficult.

[BroMikey]

It would seem that most university students will have to hire all math done from that point on.

Rotor input idling 180watt

Efficiency = 180w + 70w = 250w
50 divided by 250 = .2 or 20% efficiency

Next we repeat by adding another 50w load.

Efficiency = 180w + 140w = 320w
100 divided by 320 = .31 or 31% efficiency

Efficiency = 180w + 210w = 390w
150 divided by 390 = .38 or 38% efficiency

Efficiency = 180w + 280w = 460w
200w divided by 460 = .43 or 43% efficiency

Now up by 1000w loads

Efficiency = 180w + 1600w = 1780w
1200w divided by 1780w = .67 or 67% efficiency

So as we can see with a mere 1780w our conventional generator efficiencies are going the right direction.

Now lets look at the new generator COP at 1780w


Efficiency = 180w + 0w = 180w
1200 divided by 180w = 67 or 6.7 X % COP efficiency

This is theoretical. In real world devices as Dave has pointed out the 180w figure may increase slightly at speed due to core drag. For instance in Dave's first design all magnets are set all together to line up with all of the cores, requiring a pipe wrench and a bar on the end to break the locked positions. Stepper motors overcome this by staggering.

This means only 1 magnet is locking at any one time so drag is greatly eliminated.

Now in this first case each additional core will add up. Lets say the lock/drag force equals 10lbs for each pole of dual coil pairs in a 6 pair machine, This is 60lbs required to break the lock and is also present at full speed. An lets say that the rotor with no cores needs 100watts to idle. With each added coil pairs the drive motor will increase by 100w. This is an additional 600w + 100w idling. This is unacceptable.

All of this is at full speed with no power coming from a single coil. 700w drive input. Now counter magnets bring this down to 400w. Each generator coil set can produce 200watt X 6 pairs= 1200watts out. This is COP 3

Still more theory. Staggering is another approach so only 100w = 1 coil or 100watts extra for the entire set of 6 pairs but additional drag come from imperfect alignments so add another 100watts or 1+1+1 = 300w not 700w. this is COP4 and a lot less costs.

This is meant as a theoretical thought exercise, not to prove who is the biggest peacock on the subject

Bench work not included.In your ear

[dragon]

COP is loosely thrown around on the overunity sites as if it were something really special. A coefficient of performance is based on the combination of energies adding together to achieve a larger output of a device. Primarily used in air conditioning and/or a heat pump systems where energy from the environment is used in combination with a given input to produce an output greater than that input. A COP of 10 billion isn't unity let alone overunity.

[Turion]

LOL
I've seen people carping about people using the term "Overtunity" and now you would rather we not refer to something as having a COP>1. I guess the best thing is just to show input vs output.

[dragon]

I suppose, firstly, if you could show input vs output and proved there was an output in excess of input then we could move to explaining where the excess energy is coming from. For instance I have a ground based energy system that has no outside input requirement, all the energy is extracted from the ground. Someone could say it was overunity which would be wrong because we know where the energy is coming from and what is causing the energy that is available - like a wind generator, if you didn't know you were extracting energy from the wind then it would seem like some kind of miraculous device. Again, simply extracting energy from the environment and reasonably easy to explain.

So, like bistander, I am very skeptical about your claim of 400/1800. However, if you had a reasonable explanation of where and how the excess energy enters the system I might be less skeptical.... since I don't believe in "magic" coils and unless their doped with radioactive materials or something your not talking about then I'll continue to be skeptical until you prove me wrong...

[BroMikey]

I suppose, firstly, if you could show input vs output and proved there was an output in excess of input

I am very skeptical

I hate to put it like this because it sounds so bad. 1+1 =2 not 3, 1+1 does not = 3 This is how I explain your ability to do any kind of math. Hard data requires math. Meters don't lie. Watts= watts. So your kind of thinking that so many agree with is irrational and is not based on math. Math is hard data. When you read the meters on the alternator of your car, this is hard data. Speculation is more theory.

You can not say that your car alternator is putting out 13.8v @ 60amps read on the meters because even that you are unsure. 13.8 X 60 = 828 watts You can not call this 1200watts, You can not call this 3000watts. This is 828w. Yet you say that you are not sure. This shows you can not trust any form of measuring tools.

You are lost and will always be lost until you can take true measurements using a meter and be sure the reading is correct. For now you are skeptical, as you put it. Skeptical means you do not TRUST the readings.

Math is hard data and is inescapable. Unless you can not use a meter.

Volts X amps = watts of power but a skeptic is unsure.

[BroMikey]

I suppose, firstly

extracting energy from the wind then it would seem like some kind of miraculous device.

l until you prove me wrong...

we are using the negative work and turning it positive. Do you understand this statement?

BEMF is negative work or - work. minus= - this is a minus sign for math equations. Minus = -
I know it sounds redundant. Negative work done at BTDC ( this =aka= before top dead center} Rotational timing of magnetic poles.
this makes you and the rest look as stupid as you are when it comes to math. Sorry this is how I feel.
BEMF is negative work done BTDC. It does seem like you are willing to be beaten up long enough
to where you get this thru your head. Do you understand my entry?

I'll say it again

We are taking the BEMF which is negative work and turning it positive @ ATDC (after top dead center}

Unless you submerse yourselves in this explanation that I have just given, you will never rise again.

I have just explained everything.

[BroMikey]

LOL
I've seen people carping about people using the term "Overtunity" and now you would rather we not refer to something as having a COP>1. I guess the best thing is just to show input vs output.

You see the debt of these people. I know you are correct about adding coils that produce more drag, but they can not even trust their own meters. The system has perverted them to the point that if the meter reads 500watts then it must be measured another way thru special means if it doesn't line up with their viewpoint. In essence there are no absolutes.

Meter measurements are hard data and absolute values. A skeptic is unsure I can't hold it.
These people are smart but have been crimpled by the system

[dragon]

Mikey, I was just pointing out that your calculating COP measurements to describe what you believe is overunity. They don't mix... You would use a COP calculation, for example, to calculate a known input and output to determine the amount of energy being extracted from the environment distinguishing the unknown value. Such as a 100 watt input and a 642 BTU output giving you a COP of 2 by extracting 341 BTU from the environment. ( equivalent of 100 watts ). This doesn't mean it has reached unity and certainly not overunity. If you used one watt of input to extract 100 watts from the environment you can't claim this is over unity because the 100 watts is coming from the environment... Your input is simply controlling the extraction not causing the excess energy to magically appear. Like putting a 1 volt battery in series with a solar panel that produces 200 watts then driving a 200 watt light bulb with the system... most of the energy is coming from the solar panel not from the battery...

400 watts input with an 1800 watt output would be beyond COP values, beyond unity and into the overunity realm of calculating efficiency. In this case it should be easy to utilize a portion of the excess output to drive the 400 watt input required and still have 1400 watts to spare for driving other loads... I personally think there are to many assumptions taking place. We test one coil to be 100 volts at 1.5 amp with a 400 watt input then assume all other coils added won't change the input value and we simply add all the outputs to achieve the total. It's obvious from one of the videos shown that each coil when activated draws the motor down more and more as they progress. The last few loads drawing the motor down beyond its limit leaving the crew scrambling to shut it down before the motor stalls and burns up.

Show 4 bulbs lit brightly while the other 2 outputs are converted to DC and used as the only energy driving the input motor... I may not be so skeptical at that point...

[Quantum_well]

Alex and Dragon, they'll never cop-on. Might as well butt our heads against a brick wall!

[Turion]

Dragon,
That is the entire point. When additional coils are added, they do NOT change the required input as would happen in a standard setup. And they do not change the input when put under load. Add one more coil, or add 20 more coils, the input is essentially the same.

I don’t know which video you saw where they were scrambling to shut the machine down before they burnt the motor up, but I know I have posted two or three where that happened. There is a window where a particular coil will neither speed up the motor nor slow it down when placed under load. This is true of every coil. If the RPM is too low, the motor will drag down. If the ROM is too high, the prime mover will speed up. If it is just right there is no effect at all on the prime mover and the coil puts out its maximum as a generator coil. O

[Turion]

Quantum,

I have watched this generator do exactly what I say it will do countless times over the last ten years. Why would I EVER accept that it CAN’T? Why would I listen? That’s like flying to Australia with someone and suddenly accepting his argument that man will never fly.

[BroMikey]

Dragon you went off the deep end again. How many apples are able to hold 300btu's each and if we had 10,000 btu's how many apple's do we need? Don't you hear yourselves, ever? Stick with the watts and run a rotor or go home. Unless you try this you will never know. Get a rotor and put magnets. Next add any conventional coil. Could be a ball of wire that looks like a ball of yarn, if that is the best you can do. Slap some wire around a 1/2" bolt or something. Watch the wheel slow down. Where did I lose you now? it's up to you to build a better coil. Good luck with that. You don't need Dave's hand me down black beauty to get the job done.