Motor Generators

[BroMikey]

A week from Thursday I am meeting Greyland and his team and we will be testing the generator. I will be able to record volts, amps, RPM and whatever. I hope to test the NEW machine before that, but haven’t been able to mate it to a motor yet. Still working on that.

That's great either way Dave. We have the answers already. Spun up rotor using 1 finger vs same machine takes a pipe wrench to unlock without opposition magnets that create a cancelled cogging condition 95%.

We know the coils produce power without dragging down the rotor again. 1+1
this is COP 3+ and from there I have seen the 3 battery systems reuse drive motor power to increase
efficiency. Even a 3+ COP leaves the operator 1000watts of usable power until the bearings wear out in a year or two. Minimum. Maximum could be double that. AND I KNOW THAT THE OLD ISSUES WITH HEATING WILL BE GONE< NO COOLING REQUIRED NO HEAT SINKS unless 60hz core materials are being used.

Go easy at the party and happy holidays.

[alexelectric]

Two generators to obtain data, and see its efficiency, very well, that it achieves its purposes

[Turion]

I have to go to the city tomorrow to get parts for my remodel, so hope to pick up some synchronized pulleys and belts that will fit this setup and work on a couple different motors. I am having a 1/4” thick steel plate that sits on top of my machine made. It will have four bolts that come up through it to a second plate I can use to mount motors to belt drive this generator.

I will shoot a video of it and how it works when I get it. It’s going to be pretty cool to be able to swap different motors both AC and DC. I have no idea what the output watts will be with 22 magnets instead of 12 and a different motor and only five coil pair instead of six. Every day is an adventure.

[BroMikey]

Sure is a hansom rig.

[alexelectric]

with more magnets, more induction, and if you operate it at the same 2800 rpm, you will have much more current, but you can operate the generator at a lower speed of 1800 rpm, and have good current.

It remains to be seen how fast the generator will accelerate, although as you say Mr Dave, it is best not to decelerate or accelerate.

speed, induction, amperage, it will depend on what you require

[Turion]

I was able to find some QD bushings that fit 5/8, 1/2, 9/16 and 3/4 shafts. So I got one of each for possible motor shafts and an extra 3/4 bushing for the generator shaft. They bolt to QD synchronous pulleys, so I only had to order two pulleys which can be switched to different bushings depending on which motor I am using. I also got belts of different lengths which will allow me to mate up to the different motors. So, now I just have to wait for everything to come in and I am in business. The MY1020 razor scooter has a metric shaft with left handed threads, which is a total PAIN IN THE BUTT to mate up to anything. I am in the process of running that motor at top speed and using a file to "turn down the shaft to accept a bushing with 5/8" OD that will be welded on both ends, so that I can fit a bearing to it. One of the problems with that particular motor's shaft is it changes diameter 3 times in ONE inch because it was made to accept a sprocket and chain setup. I don't want to run the generator with a chain. They are noisy, and I can just imagine one breaking and flopping all over the place. A busted belt will be bad enough, and I will be building a belt guard out of 1/4" thick plexiglass. The older I get, the more cautious I become. This is the LAST machine I will build, so I am going to do it right in every respect. I have three of the MY1020 motors, and the one I am experimenting on had a broken shaft where I put a pin through it once before to hold a fully, and the shaft broke from the torque exerted trying to turn the generator with all the coils in place before I figured out the magnetic neutralization.

Over the next couple days I am going to pull the neutralization magnets back out of the machine and attach them to the circular plate on the end of the threaded rod with JB weld. My friend who built his OWN version of this machine said he is seeing the virtual S between the N magnets pull the magnet off the end of the threaded rod and they stick to the rotor between the two N magnets.
I haven't seen that happen before, but there is a first time for everything and no use taking chances. I will shoot a new video of the assembly process to replace the one I already posted of putting the adjustment rods in place to reflect this change in the assembly process and delete that old video so it doesn't become TOO confusing.

I also need to put all the coils in the machine, but I wanted to shoot a video of the machine running and record the amp draw and RPM of the motor as I added the coils to a machine that was already running at speed, so no sense getting ahead of myself. I can however, get all the wires on those coils attached to wiring terminals to make the connections easy and quick once I'm ready to go. Stripping the ends of 240 wires and connecting them to wiring terminals takes a bit of time and I might as well get that out of the way while I wait. As much as I HATE tedious crap like that!

[BroMikey]

I was able to find some QD bushings...............

............Stripping the ends of 240 wires and connecting them to wiring terminals takes a bit of time and I might as well get that out of the way while I wait. As much as I HATE tedious crap like that!

I know the feeling, I just did 100 connections on one coil. Hope your buckshot cores don't overheat or 1/32nd rods is it? Same idea, same thing, a magnetic disaster.

[Turion]

I've said for a while now that EVERY coil is a speed up under load coil (neutral coil) when run at the correct frequency. FREQUENCY is incredibly important. How do you CHANGE the frequency? Number of magnets on the rotor, or RPM of the rotor.

Here's some data for you from the tests Greyland's team ran today. They FINALLY got all six sets of lights working, but one set of lights, when put under load, would cause the motor to slow down, and it would drag down the whole system.There are six pairs of coils connected to six 300 watt bulbs, and the switches are numbered 1-6. Logical, right. Number six was the culprit that was causing the entire system to drag. They tried replacing the switch They tried rewiring the coils and checking all the connections. It still drug the system down.

It shouldn't be slowing down AT ALL, but it is. SO I asked them to turn on coil pair # 6 FIRST. They did, and then turned on the others in order. 6,1,2,3,4,5. When they got to the 5th set of coils and turned it on, the whole system drug down.

I asked them to measure the RPM after each coil pair was turned on.

Starting RPM was 3460

Light #1 - 3440

Light #2 - 3410

Light #3 - 3359

Light #4 - 3297

Light #5 - 3120

Light #6 - kills it

So my original machine with 6 of the 2" magnets and three strands of #23 each 1,000 feet long was "neutral" at 2800 rpm. Below that, when a load was attached, the motor would bog down. At 2800 there was no reaction. At about 2900 there was speed up under load. When I went to a 12 magnet rotor the necessary RPM for "neutral" dropped. I never experimented with higher RPM than what I needed to get the "neutral" effect. I appears there was more to learn.

These coils worked PERFECTLY with the MY1020 as the run motor, but their RPM wasn't this high. Let me run something by those who have experimented with these kinds of coils. Here is my thought. The motor here is turning the rotor TOO fast for these coils to react properly. What if there is a speed at which the coil drags. You speed up the rotor and you are neutral. You speed up more and you get "speed up under load." WHAT IF, when you speed up AGAIN you get to the point where the coil is dragging again. Above that there may be another range where neutral occurs again and above that another range where speed up under load occurs again. Just a thought. Some experimenting on the bench will tell if I am right or wrong. But if there was a speed at which these coils had drag, and there was a speed above that at which they sped up under load (and there was, because with the MY1020 motor, that was the range we were operating in at 36 volts because I have SEEN it.) Then the fact that they are dragging again at a higher rpm is interesting data. I told them to slow the thing down and see what happens. They need a Variac so they can control the AC motor speed. They are getting one. If any of you are experimenting with these kinds of coils, I thought that might be useful information for you to have.

[BroMikey]

Good data, keep it coming. Having (you know what I am about to say) the rpm 3400 drop to 3100 rpm will cause drive motor amps to double. I will guess 800watt input at 1500 watt out.
Keep at it boys. You are going to get it just like you got the cancellation dialed in so 1 finger can spin the rotor. COP will rise.Heat will not rise (wild guess)Drive motor smoking gun.FFT (food for thought) 22mag/2=11 "odd" number, 5 pair of coil packs "odd" number. Rotor needs "odd" number of coil packs not "even". Closed loop field crushing the process. Leave the back door open.

Maybe that is why the other guy building had such a high amp draw with 48 poles.

[alexelectric]

I've said for a while now that EVERY coil is a speed up under load coil (neutral coil) when run at the correct frequency. FREQUENCY is incredibly important. How do you CHANGE the frequency? Number of magnets on the rotor, or RPM of the rotor.

Here's some data for you from the tests Greyland's team ran today. They FINALLY got all six sets of lights working, but one set of lights, when put under load, would cause the motor to slow down, and it would drag down the whole system.There are six pairs of coils connected to six 300 watt bulbs, and the switches are numbered 1-6. Logical, right. Number six was the culprit that was causing the entire system to drag. They tried replacing the switch They tried rewiring the coils and checking all the connections. It still drug the system down.

It shouldn't be slowing down AT ALL, but it is. SO I asked them to turn on coil pair # 6 FIRST. They did, and then turned on the others in order. 6,1,2,3,4,5. When they got to the 5th set of coils and turned it on, the whole system drug down.

I asked them to measure the RPM after each coil pair was turned on.

Starting RPM was 3460

Light #1 - 3440

Light #2 - 3410

Light #3 - 3359

Light #4 - 3297

Light #5 - 3120

Light #6 - kills it

So my original machine with 6 of the 2" magnets and three strands of #23 each 1,000 feet long was "neutral" at 2800 rpm. Below that, when a load was attached, the motor would bog down. At 2800 there was no reaction. At about 2900 there was speed up under load. When I went to a 12 magnet rotor the necessary RPM for "neutral" dropped. I never experimented with higher RPM than what I needed to get the "neutral" effect. I appears there was more to learn.

These coils worked PERFECTLY with the MY102) as the run motor, but their RPM wasn't this high. Let me run something by those who have experimented with these kinds of coils. Here is my thought. The motor here is turning the rotor TOO fast for these coils to react properly. What if there is a speed at which the coil drags. You speed up the rotor and you are neutral. You speed up more and you get "speed up under load." WHAT IF, when you speed up AGAIN you get to the point where the coil is dragging again. Above that there may be another range where neutral occurs again and above that another range where speed up under load occurs again. Just a thought. Some experimenting on the bench will tell if I am right or wrong. But if there was a speed at which these coils had drag, and there was a speed above that at which they sped up under load (and there was, because with the MY1020 motor, that was the range we were operating in at 36 volts because I have SEEN it.) Then the fact that they are dragging again at a higher rpm is interesting data. I told them to slow the thing down and see what happens. They need a Variac so they can control the AC motor speed. They are getting one. If any of you are experimenting with these kinds of coils, I thought that might be useful information for you to have.

All this data, and your information is very useful, for the construction of a replica of your generator, thanks for the information, Mr Dave.

Mr. Dave what voltage did he get from the three wire coil, and what connection did he use

[Turion]

They got all the coil pair fixed as far as output went, so here is the output data for the coil pairs yesterday. This is across the load. I failed to ask if this is individually (and I bet it was) or all at the same time. I bet they measured one coil pair output across load, shut off the load, then measured the next coil pair output. Since I KNOW the machine is slowing down a bit with every load added, something needs to be done to get it back where we want it to be. Add wire to the coils, increase or decrease rpm, or add more magnets to the rotor. The SIMPLEST fix is to decrease the rpm and see if that solves the problem.

Yesterday's readings:
Coil 1 - 293.8 volts
Coil 2 - 308.2 volts
Coil 3 - 317.4 volts
Coil 4 - 335 volts
Coil 5 - 313.4 volts
Coil 6 - 315.2 volts

That's an average output of about 313.8 at between 1.4-1.5 amps per coil pair. At 1.4-1.5 amps peer coil pair, that's between 2,636 and 2,824 watts. The only issues now is that this will NOT be the output when those coils are being operated at the correct frequency. And I have NO IDEA what the actual input to the system is.

The DC motor drew 9 amps at 36 volts to run the generator with the coils outputting correctly, but I NEVER got output numbers this high. That was a 324 watt input. My output was around 1800-2000 watts, not 2,636- 2,824 watts.
The AC motor is drawing 7 amps at 115 volts or 805 watts, their RPM is higher and they have NOT measured input amps with all the coils lit up, so I have NO accurate data to show real input for the output they are getting. I have no idea how much the motor slows down, if it reaches a point of equilibrium where its rpm decreases to the point where the coils are now speed up under load coils, so everything balances out or WHAT happens. Does the motor drag down until it burns up? I have no idea. Time will tell, and sooner or later this will all get worked out. I encouraged them to buy a 20 amp Variac, so they could reduce the voltage input to the motor and slow it down. They could also put a bridge across the output of the variac and turn it into an adjustable DC power supply and run the DC motor. Then put a killowatt meter on the wall to plug the Variac into and have continuous input data. The bizarre thing in my mind is that the motor kicks off when drawing too many amps. That was happening before, so we KNOW it does that. But when they flip on the last load the RPM goes down. In my mind, the amp draw should also go UP because there motor should be drawing more current to deal with an additional load, but the motor is rated for 7.2 amps and is NOT kicking off, so something is going on that I do not understand. Apparently the amp draw is remaining the same. Based on what I have seen on the bench in the past, that shouldn't be happening. Lots to figure out, that's for sure.

[bistander]

P3 P4400 Kill A Watt meter is ~$35 at Amazon. Reads V, A, Hz, W, VA, PF, & KWH. bi

[Turion]

That's the exact meter on Amazon I sent them a link to, as well as a link to a 20 amp Variac. I'm spending my money on MY build and another project right now. There are three or four guys working together to get that generator Greyland has up and running. I give them all the help I can by long distance.

[BroMikey]

Since I KNOW the machine is slowing down a bit with every load added,

That's an average output of about 313.8 at between 1.4-1.5 amps per coil pair.

The DC motor drew 9 amps at 36 volts to run the generator

peanuts, search term "36v motor speed control" pay $5 extra and get it inside the USA

BTW yes you learn fast that an induction motor squirrel cage rotor speed can not so easily be adjusted perfect and still get the torque for which it is designed. Variac control for an induction motor is poor unless it has brushes running 115v known as a UNIVERSAL INDUCTION MOTOR like some grinder motors have. At this point you could rectify.

PMM Dc motors are on the other hand made to adjust for all speeds by using a PWM module to keep the torque up high at many voltages. Go the advanced way and save energy. Buy a 20amp 36v switching power supply, plug that into the wall at 115v. Make sure you use a fuse to protect your investment. Let's say you need 10 amps then use a 15 amp fuse leaving a 5 amp ceiling left over. Send the power to a controller. The controller is a high efficiency pulse width modulating wave designed to optimize DC motor performance.

Or you can use 3 X 12v batteries in series giving you 36v. This way you may devise ways to loop by charging the batteries off of the generator coils. Now you will need a 400vdc step down convert but first rectify to DC. It is cheap but requires learning where to buy boxes to hang on your rig.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-10A-to-...MAAOSwMjVfYdxE

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-10-55V-M...UAAOSwQrpfqOKv

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-24V-36V...kAAOSwEjFXfHF1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1200W-Motor...wAAOSwUmxc~2tg

[alexelectric]

And as Mike says, put the speed control to the 36 volt motor, put the charger or power supply, test the generator at 2800 rpm, at these revolutions the coils proposed by Mr Dave work.

Maybe the coils can work at a lower speed, or more, but the tests that Mr. Dave always showed us was at 2800 rpm, and you have to have a speed control, otherwise you cannot find the optimal operating speed generator
After it works by accelerating the generator or not by accelerating, you can proceed to change the motor, AC but with speed control, when I did not have the speed control I could not control the generator.


The data that Mr. Dave is showing us, shows that the coils are not working properly, they do not accelerate or at least they should not slow down the motor, they are not at its optimal operating speed that Mr. Dave has repeated so many times. 2800 rpm.


I have a speed control like the one Mike showed in the link, it allows me to control the 36 volt motor.

From the 36 volt source and charger I am going to buy the 1000 watt one, so I can use it to charge the 36 volt batteries, while I work operating the generator.

When one does not have the correct accessories to work, one does not advance correctly.

for example, I was working with an AC motor, and it only gave me 1700 rpm, I did not have a speed regulator, in those conditions I did not advance.