Motor Generators

[BroMikey]

Here is another space age electrical grade reinforced composite, cheap, the guy cuts it for you

The search term is for plastic Canvas Phenolic (CE) it is not plastic it is a composite and because I typed in the word composite for 2 years nothing came up. Boing boing. Type in the wrong terms and you go hungry.

Here is my rotor material video


https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-Canvas-...E8AAOSwyZ5UrCN S

[BroMikey]

Garolite Micarta Canvas Phenolic is a space age material also only $20 a sq ft for strong as steel electrical grade COMPOSITE. The way to go. To give you an example of how pure plastic products act just left out in the sun a few days I have a cutting block board that was exposed to heat a few weeks. The board is trying to form itself into a sphere. Not to mention the god awful prices.

See the various grades. All very cheap.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Garolite-Mi...kAAOSwRNhbv9hL


https://www.alro.com/divplastics/Pla...licFamily.aspx

Reinforcing substrate and a thermoplastic resin binder, then cured with high temperature and pressure. The reinforcing substrate can be glass cloth, glass mat, filaments, canvas cotton fabric, linen cotton fabric, paper, graphite fabric, and others. While the thermoplastic binder resin which serves to adhere the layers together can be epoxies, melamine, phenolics, polyesters, silicones, and others.

Micarta (Phenolic) is a trademark of Norplex-Micarta industrial high-pressure laminates. Common uses of modern high-pressure laminates are electrical insulators, printed circuit board substrates, and knife handles.

[BroMikey]

This youtube channel deals with how he changed his commercial generator. It took years and the data is at his youtube. 2nd video is his generator producing at 4rpm. He beat Lenz with internal magnets. See his videos for changes.

[Turion]

A couple things are happening, and possibly worth an update. Greyland has been up and around for a bit now, and has been working on the generator as he has time. He has it down to less than 3 foot pounds of torque to (break magnetic lock and) turn the rotor with all 12 coils in place, so hopefully that will affect the amp draw of the motor used to turn the rotor. He had to get a special torque wrench because the one he had only goes down to five pounds, and he is aiming for one pound of torque. He has also found problems with the coils and is working to address that. Some of the coil issues stem from the fact that he as some 3 wire coils, some 6 wire coils, some 12 wire coils and some 24 wire coils on the machine, as I was experimenting to see which gave the best output and at what speeds. Since different winds produce speed up under load at different RPM's, it has hurt his brain to try and figure out at what RPM to run the machine, since coils only put out MAX power when they are neither speeding up the machine nor slowing it down. This machine was NEVER intended to be a "working generator". It was designed as a test bed for me to experiment with coil configurations, coil core materials, and different RPMs to see what is possible. So even when it is up and running PERFECTLY, it does not output "Perfectly". That is why all my statements on the performance of the machine go back to the time when I had 12 coils that all had 3 strands in them. That is the ONLY time the machine was working at peak performance. I know what the machine was doing with those coils and THAT rotor with 6 of the 2" by 1/4" thickness magnets. Since then I have doubled the number of magnets in the rotor and increased their thickness and changed the design of the coils three more times. I know how those changes affected the output of the different coil pairs on the machine, and I am capable of multiplying that number by the number of coil pair to see what the output of the machine would be if all the coil Paris were the same. Eventually all the coils will have to be replaced with the same winding configuration, and the machine run at the RPM for THOSE particular coils, but we will worry about that another day. And I STILL have a pair of ferrite core coils that need to be put in the machine and tested for both output and speed up under load RPM. Still lots to do. Luckily, Greyland isn't having to do any machining at the present time, just adjusting and tightening things up. He still isn't really up to that.

I also ran across someone ELSE who is a machinist in the Eastern part of the US, and is interested in replicating one version of the generator. So we are working together. It will probably take some time, but he has all the resources to do it, so I'm pretty sure we will both end up with one by the time the smoke clears. This will be a smaller machine with only 10 coils, but it will also be the version I think most people should build as proof of concept because it is smaller, much cheaper, much easier to tune, and still capable of producing quite a bit of power. Because it has an odd number of coils on each side of the rotor, all rotor magnets are North facing, you cannot run large AC devices off of it because the coils are not in phase with each other. There is a "Virtual South" between the north magnets, so the coil output is still AC, but it is a 5 phase output. The coil outputs are all rectified to DC to run a load or charge batteries.

I can't even work on my remodel for two weeks, as I have contractors in doing some stuff and I would be in the way. Getting very, very close to being done, so I am actually spending the time getting my shop at the new house in some kind of order so I have places to actually work on projects. If and when I start working on getting the generator back together, I will keep you posted on the update. I still do not have a rotor that doesn't have magnets sticking out a bit, and I am unwilling to run such a rotor anymore.

I have other projects I am working on, some of which are replications of the work of others. None of them should be discussed in a thread about motors and generators though.

[BroMikey]

A couple things are happening, and possibly worth an update.

There is a "Virtual South" between the north magnets, so the coil output is still AC, but it is a 5 phase output.

conversion.jpg

[BroMikey]

For those of you pushing forward with home power note that this is the present format of power conversion in the solar and wind industry. Many forms of wind turbine engines exist today. Multi phase machines have been around for a long long time. This type of power can not be directly connected to a wall plug. Rather all forms of generated energy are fed into a device known as an INVERTER. These inverters can be purchased to suit a specific need. For instance say you have a jet well pump motor for delivering water to the garden. To power this ac motor you will need a well tuned inverter such as are commonly available on the market today. All you need do is come up with any form of electricity then sending the energy to the INVERTER unit where a section of onboard capacitors receive the power and convert the energy to perform work at the wall outlet which supply 60hz or 60 cycles per second. All motors produced today such as a washing machine operate on 60 cycles.

3-Phase-Solar-Pump-Inverter-with-MPPT-and-VFD.jpg

[Turion]

The machine of mine you show in post 785 is a single phase machine. I can tell because it uses stacked blocks that hold the coils. That is one of the older versions that would burn the motor to a crisp if you ran it with 12 coils in place because the magnetic drag was so great that the motor pulled over its 27 rated amps JUST to turn the rotor when all the coils were in place. It was way before I figured out that magnetic neutralization was a necessary part of building a machine that would actually put out more power than it takes to run.

On another note...Greyland called about five minutes ago. He is attempting to run an AC motor on the output of a pair of coils on the generator to see what kind of RPM he can get and at what frequency the coils are outputting. He is trying to figure out how many coils it will take him to loop the system. I'll let you know how it turns out. He has someone helping him, but I don't know what frequency the coils are outputting at. Got ANOTHER call from Greyland while I was writing this. He is running the machine turned by a DC motor running on 36 volts. Two coils are outputting enough at 110 volts AC to run an AC motor (that is rated at 3,000 rpm) at 3049 RPM.

As I recall, Frequency = RPM x Number of poles divided by [2 x 60 (number of seconds in a minute)]. I'm sure if I'm wrong SOMEONE will take great pleasure in pointing that out to me. I'm getting old and my memory for formulas I didn't really know in the first place is not that great.

So the plan is to replace the DC motor with the AC motor, put in a selector switch that will flip it from running on wall power to running on Generator Power and see what happens. This will be done by the end of the day today, so you don't have to wait too long for results. Right now the DC motor is turning a rotor, and the AC motor that is running on two generator coils is NOT. But it is running at higher RPM than the DC motor, and the whole concept of this machine was that it should only COST you to turn the rotor. No magnetic drag (or at least not much) to overcome, and no increased amp draw of the drive motor or slowing of the drive motor because of Lenz. So we will see. Greyland said that the electrical engineer from the independent testing lab that he does work for will probably be coming over sometime this afternoon, and for sure after work today at the latest.So it won't just be us spouting this stuff. We will have a qualified third party who has looked at this machine a few times in the past giving his two cents. I'm sure he will address the issue of the Hz PROBABLY being too HIGH for this particular motor. I don't know. I DO know he is willing to help because of what he has seen so far.

Update:
I called Greyland just now 9:48 PM my time, and he has gone home to eat dinner. He intends to go back to the shop and work tonight. He is one of those guys who sleeps during the day and works all night, so usually doesn't get out of bed until noon or later. I will have to wait until tomorrow to get his update because I am not staying up all night just to hear the news. I forgot to ask if the guy came by the shop to see the machine, but I'm sure if that did not happen, it will in the next day or so. The lab is less than a block form his shop.

[BroMikey]

As I recall, Frequency = RPM x Number of poles divided by [2 x 60 (number of seconds in a minute)]. I'm sure if I'm wrong SOMEONE will take great pleasure in pointing that out to me. I'm getting old and my memory for formulas I didn't really know in the first place is not that great.

The lab is less than a block form his shop.

Where have I heard chatter about an independent lab, before? Hummm? Let me think. It was Dave Bowling I remember now. Say about 5 years ago? Anyway Dave yer not gittin older yer gittin better.

Below are MY frequencies. Not Dave's, mine, cause I did all the bench work to all you lazy slobs and it's mine all mine. Just kidding. I was only foolin only Dave talks like that, I guess it's tryin to rub off. I am stealing Dave's lines now.

Okay on a more serious notation concerning motors and generator frequency measurements in HZ.

#1 A conventional 2 pole electric motor running off the grid at 60hz operates at 3600 RPM.

#2 A 4 pole electric motor operates also on 60 cycles per second but the running speed is cut in half coming in at 1800 RPM's.

Below is a 10 pole? or is this considered a 20 pole? Since each coil core uses both poles at once.

Come let's do some math. Mine operates at 1000 RPM's and produces (generators are operating as reverse motors) 180HZ . 1000 goes into 3600 =3.6 times slower than the grid motor. And produces 3 times the HZ.(see dia) 5 times as many poles operating from the grid as a 2 pole motor would take the RPM much lower than the conventional 4 pole motor. We maybe should cut this RPM in fifths.

3600 divided by 5 = 720 RPM as a motor using the 60hz, however as a generator at 40% of 3600 or 1500 RPM my generator (Motor working in reverse) produces close to 300hz at times. This is 5X the grid Freaks. Do you see it? 5X keeps popping up. These figures are horse shoe numbers, meaning close approximations. If you can get 2 fingers, yer good to go. Now go figure it out. If I don't hear back soon I'll assume you are all still sitting on yer hands, right Dave?

10polegen.jpg

[Turion]

You filled a page with useless babble, as usual, and still managed to fail to address the only important issue, which was whether or not the formula I showed is correct. If not I need to revise it. I guess you don’t KNOW the answer and think if you give enough examples I can figure it out. Or I could just look it up on the internet. If you don’t KNOW the formula you could just say so.

Yes, I have mentioned the independent lab before. I’ve had machines in there two different times for testing over the years. Which is one of the main reasons, despite what the “experts” on the forum have to say, both Greyland and I have continued to invest time and money in this project. I have the greatest respect for bench work and proof shown on the bench rather than the opinions of people who build nothing and quote Wikipedia.

I have no patience for your comment about me claiming something is “mine, all mine”. I have been very clear that the concept for speed up under load coils, more importantly NEUTRAL coils, came from Tesla’s patent and have shared that patent number on many occasions. I have also shared the patent I came across that put forth the idea of magnetic neutralization. I claimed neither of these concepts as mine. I just said the speed up under load coil did NOT originate with Thaine. So what is it I have claimed is “mine, all mine.”?

This machine IS mine. I built it. A lot of money and hard work went into it and the15 prior versions. And then rather than try to make money off it, I brought it here and gave away all the information and details on how to build it. My mistake. I should have just turned it over to investors and let the folks here figure crap out for themselves. The fact that I built this machine doesn’t mean others before me haven’t built machines with these kinds of coils or with magnetic neutralization in place. They probably HAVE. But I can’t order one anywhere so this one IS “mine, all mine.” I always assumed it would be possible to loop it, but I don’t have the time to work on it right now. Getting close though. Three rooms left to tile, three rooms left to paint and baseboards left to put up when the carpet guys are done and all the tile is in. Getting people out to do the work I need done is the problem. Nobody can come set my gas stove (For heating the place) until October, so unless I find a YouTube video on how to put the stove pipe between the new stove and the old fixed bracket on the ceiling, it’s just one more delay. If I can figure it out, I can probably be done in two weeks. If not, it may be a couple more months. Not putting down new carpet until that stove is set in place. Don’t want crap from the ceiling falling all over brand new carpet,or workers installing the stove walking all over it.

Gotta get this house finished so the fires can come along and burn it to the ground.

[BroMikey]

As I recall, Frequency = RPM x Number of poles divided by [2 x 60 (number of seconds in a minute)]. I'm sure if I'm wrong SOMEONE will take great pleasure in pointing that out to me. I'm getting old and my memory for formulas I didn't really know in the first place is not that great.

Okay let's see if that is true. My gen runs at 1500r's has 10 poles = 15000 divide by 120 = 125hz and my freq is 290hz

All I can tell you is what the bench reality is. My 10 pole also runs at 1000r's =10000 divide 120 = 83 hz using this formula and the bench tests show 180hz. The best way to find freq is by using a meter that measures hz I would say. Did i do the calculation you presented correctly? Maybe this rule of thumb is for standard motors?

Then I thought about it again and maybe mine is a 20 pole so X 1500 = 30000 divide 120 = 250hz is alot closer. On the other hand as I see your generator having 10 magnet poles x 3500rpm = 35000 divide 120 = 290hz. So I think you answered one of my questions. Mine must be a 20 pole due to the arrangement of the c core effecting the single coil twice where each of your coils are completely separate. It's only considered a non essential calculation if it does not pertain. If the learning curve I am experiencing thru numbers is making you angry, this is my best. being short is not a good sign. My representations of our exchanges over a 5 year point are completely accurate, however I must say you are doing better as of the last 1 year.
To be clear, I use playful interjections to characterize the early interaction and are only my person views which do not reflect what other people may see. I have no intention of apologizing for your past insolent behavior nor do I hold it against you. The facts are facts. Now that you have moved, we can get over it. To be honest lately our communications (by comparison) have been sickly sweet.Oh you eventually shared but not before you realized some things.

This is the true formula found on the web

The equation for synchronous speed - the speed of the magnetic field inside the motor stator is 120 x F / P where F is the applied frequency in Hz, and P is the number of poles (always a multiple of 2) in the motor winding. 120 is a constant that gives your answer in revolutions per minute.


According to this you are right but i am still thinking on it. This is something to go on.

BTW 1 pound of force to turn the rotor is great.

Happy remodeling Dave, hope the smoke does not completely engulf Cal.

The data I have needs some review for instance my rpm's might be off slightly because since I added the new more accurate probe I have not redone all of my calculations of which I think are lower for rpm (actual) Also with and without the opposing magnets playing a giant role can slow down or speed up the rotor. I hope to offer a more detailed data stream in the future, for those who do not KNOW everything. I hope you found our conversation as stimulating.

ac-induction-motor-poles.jpg
frequency.png

[Rakarskiy]

http://www.nce.energy/dmig/?fbclid=I...9FOmW52oR-uw5M

Noca Clean Energy focus is the deployment and distribution of theDMIG technology, a technology that will redefine the electrical energy generation sector. Digital Magnetic Inducer Generators (DMIG) provides access to an inexpensive, continuously available, and non-polluting method for generating electrical energy in a format that is applicable both small and large-scale. DMIG produces reliable electricity non-stop without requiring any fuel input; Noca Clean Energy generators are completely hassle free.

The DMIG is available starting at 5MW, and is easily scalable to larger power requirements.

Flexibility and functionality are two key elements of the DMIG technology that make it ideal for many energy generation scenarios. The DMIG can be affixed to existing energy grids as a method to improve energy efficiency in urban areas, or used to develop mini-grids in rural areas that lack access to energy. The DMIG can also function as a standalone energy source for mining companies, medical facilities, research centres, construction firms, as well as other industrial and commercial enterprises operating in remote locations.

http://www.nce.energy/wp-content/upl...-Datasheet.pdf

********
Andrey Slobodyan tragically died in Korea, his latest model, alas.

Video by link https://rakarskiy.io.ua/vf1224f01741...681c365d6587b5
2020-09-11_111934.jpg

[BroMikey]

http://www.nce.energy/dmig/?fbclid=I...9FOmW52oR-uw5M



http://www.nce.energy/wp-content/upl...-Datasheet.pdf

********
Andrey Slobodyan tragically died in Korea, his latest model, alas.

Video by link https://rakarskiy.io.ua/vf1224f01741...681c365d6587b5
2020-09-11_111934.jpg

Nice machine. Many designs coming.

[BroMikey]

Infinity generator efficiency

[BroMikey]

What I can't figure is how Dave could have multiple engineers coming and going for the past many years including multiple labs doing tests and Dave says he does not know what the frequency of his units are and is left to speculate. Something sounds fishy. He sure didn't get his money's worth, Dave got took. I remember so many time Dave pointing out how he had paid out many multiples of thousands and thousands of dollars which is completely understandable, hell I do that here.

I think these so called professionals were crackpots. Can't even provide a basic printout of associated data. Weak.Nice guys finish up last.

Hey Dave, all last week it looked like rain in Kansas (I was thinking) but instead, smoke. I hope everyone gets out of that area safe. It looked like doom and gloom all last week, scary. Kansas is far far away. North Cal is going to shut down the grid soon. Good luck with that.

[Turion]

I know what the frequency of the machine was at the time it was tested. If I had it on my bench, I could tell you what the frequency is right now. But I don't. Greyland has changed the magnetic neutralization, which affects the RPM, and therefore the frequency. (It runs faster now for the same input, despite what some people think.) He has changed the motor, which changes the RPM and therefore the frequency. He is running on batteries rather than a power supply, which changes the voltage, therefore the RPM, therefore the frequency. The machine is on HIS bench, not mine, and so I cannot do measurements that would give me the information I need.

I am not dependent on the "grid", so not worried about that. As long as the fires don't get me, I'm fine.