Motor Generators

[Turion]

Got it. I was confused by the phrase "rotor DO 40,000ths". How do yo "do" a gap. Now I understand what you meant. I thought maybe you meant 40,000rpm and the "ths" was some kind of typo. I have no idea what the current gap is. Haven't measured it.

I doubt you can EVER get the kind of precision you want out of plastic rotors. But again, this is only a PROTOTYPE to prove concept, NOT a production model. Possibly an aluminum or steel rotor ENCASED in plastic thick enough to eliminate the eddy currents or the attraction of the magnets to steel would be the optimal rotor for this type of machine. I'll leave that to the next generation of folks. I just want to prove it works.

I have had an extremely busy morning and have not gotten downstairs to file on the cores yet. Hopefully I can do that. Since I traveled to Sacramento 3 different times this week for different things, all related to breaking my hand, I am way behind on things at home and have been catching up. But tomorrow is Saturday and if I haven't gotten this done by the end of the day tomorrow, the guys will come on Sunday and help me out. So one way or another it will get done. So getting back to work now or it will NEVER get done.

[BroMikey]

I have no idea what 40,000ths means.

Gap? 60,000ths is what I thought your target gap is. Less gap drives up the power output but it would grind

20,000ths- 40,000ths is a standard minimum for motors and generators

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVIw8ERZsFw

[Turion]

I have no idea what 40,000ths means.

[BroMikey]

to bad that rotor won't do 40,000ths

[Turion]

It was clamped when they cut it off, but small burrs around the outside edge are enough to keep it from fitting. It will be fixed tomorrow..

[BroMikey]

Put a hose clamp on it and squeeze it back together. They should have sanded the cores off with it clamped
glad you found the problem. no need to go back to the old coils then. that's way to much gap. maybe now you'll get 150v under load

As soon as you clamp the cores back together it will be longer. Use a set of calipers to measure the swelled up portion, then grind it?

[Turion]

The core of the coil was well over 1/4” from the coil because the core was not fitting in its hole. Because the coils are inset, I didn’t realize this until I got those bad results and started checking EVERYTHING. Will see how it does tomorrow after I file the two coils to custom fit the holes they go in.

https://youtu.be/jmoP3mVy8gA

[Turion]

...At no point did I get a “high voltage” and then have it suddenly go down. It never got above the voltage output I am seeing at 2800 RPM.

The voltage never, at any time, got above 64 volts. Not at 0 RPM, not at 1400 and not at 2800.

Just spoke to one of my partners, who was supposed to call me back last night and just now called. He says open voltage on the machine was 230 volts and under load was 123 volts with these coils, so something is definitely haywire.

And yes, I have ten moire of the exact same coil to try.

But first I am going to try a pair of the old iron core coils. I know EXACTLY what those coils put out on the old machine. I watched them run for years. A pair would burn out a 100 watt lightbulb instantly, and also two 100 watt bulbs in series. So they output something between 200 and 300 watts. Very close to 300 watts, because on occasion they would burn out the 300 watt bulb if the RPM got much over 2800 while testing for speed up under load.

[BroMikey]

I tried this morning connecting the bulb .

The voltage climbed steadily as I VERY SLOWLY ......

... and then had it suddenly go down. .

That's what I mean right there, "it went down" do you have any other coils?

[Turion]

I tried this morning connecting the bulb immediately and putting the volt meter across the load. The voltage climbed steadily as I VERY SLOWLY increased the input voltage to the motor with the Variac and bridge rectifier combo. At no point did I get a “high voltage” and then had it suddenly go down. It never got above the voltage output I am seeing at 2800 RPM.

[BroMikey]

Amps come from strands wound in parallel and connected in parallel.

it rules out a problem with the connections.

Think of a graph that shows a peak at 500hz but at 1100hz the curve goes back down to the bottom. You may get your voltage at 700ft now not 1000ft. Or speed up comes at a lower rpm?

This is what happened to Thane, once he went to 24 magnets back to back the freq went up so his coil length could be shortened therefore with double the magnets half the length of coil strand and more parallel connections in your case.

Where is the new null point of this system? Can it be reached at 1400rpm?

[Turion]

Amps come from strands wound in parallel and connected in parallel. You get the same amps with four short strands connected in series as you do one long strand. And if both are the same total length. The voltage is the same.

These exact same coils on the other machine had much greater output. Same RPM. Same size rotor. Just it had half as many magnets.

Working on it. Just double checked, and rotor magnets ARE N/S. THAT'S A RELIEF!!!!!!
Guess next step is to check individual output of each wire on the coil. Even if I check them open voltage, if they are all the same, it rules out a problem with the connections.

[BroMikey]

Yes Joe was the nicest guy and would help everyone. He just built his new house and boom.

On the generator coils things I think about.

Critical freq, herz and XL (aka inductive reactance)

5-6 magnet version at 2800 R's 230-280hz

12 magnet at 2800 R's 560Hz

24 magnets 1120Hz

1" magnets, 3/4" magnets

How quickly does a noticeable speed up under load take place with the 300watt bulb switched on and off. If speed up come way sooner you may have to shorten. You have no options with these coils for testing what is best. 12 strands is better and way more amps if I am right.

You might be getting a bottle neck at high freq's. A restriction has occurred.

Put an old iron core in there the same 3 strands and same thing?

switch rotors?

Pull out 12 magnets?

[Turion]

Sorry to hear about Joe. That really sucks. We are certainly losing g a lot of people to this thing. GOOD people.

Here's what's going on TODAY. I started up the machine with two coils in place on the generator to see what the output of one coil pair would be, and just like yesterday, the 300 watt light did not come on when I flipped the switch. So I tested the bulb and it is OK. Then I connected the coil output directly to the bulb, bypassing the in-line panel amp meter and volt meter, but got it up to speed before I screwed the bulb all the way in. It wouldn't light up. So I replaced the 300 watt bulb with a 100 watt bulb connected directly to the coil. But only ONE coil because I didn't want to risk blowing the bulb. The bulb lit up and it measured 34 volts across the bulb, and 75 volts across the unloaded coil. I expected it to measure 150 across the unloaded coil since that is what I got across the TWO coils in parallel yesterday, unloaded. So I connected the second coil to the load, screwed the bulb in, and it lit up. I measured 64 volts across the load. This is FAR less than we got using the SAME coil on the old clunker with only 12 magnets instead of the 24 the new rotor has, so I am at a loss. I called my guys who did the testing on all the coils and they confirmed that they were getting over 300 volts open voltage from these coils on the old machine at 2800 RPM and over 120 volts across the load. He was at work, so is going to check his notes when he gets home at 5:00 and call me back. Output IS what it IS unless something is wrong with BOTH the coils. But I wound them, and I can's see the wire as a problem, unless the connections aren't any good. But bad connections on BOTH of the coils I chose out of a possible 12? Not likely. I have never heard of TOO MANY magnets on the rotor being a problem, so I don't know WHAT to think. I'm going to double check that the magnets on the rotor are N/S is all I can think of that I can do right now.

[BroMikey]

We found out Joe 69 was taken to a location 45 miles away after being rejected by 2 other local hospitals died with his wife by his side and nobody at that hospital could help him. He had a clot (we think from the vax) Can't fix that in time. You only got minutes and it takes hours to see a doctor around here if not days.

Joe was a good boy helper at church and got all his shots, took vitamins and did everything right by community standards. The boomers are a targets. How about a booster? How about it superman? Johnson & Johnson loves you. You know that.