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  • Turion
    replied
    Netica,
    From what I have read in the past I don’t think you can. I think at high voltage you need to use a resistor and then measure voltage drop across the resistor. I would Google “measuring amperage at high voltage”.
    There are folks here who know way more than me so maybe one of them will speak up.

    bro,
    I’ve said many times that the coil on each side of the rotor forms a coil pair. So on my big machine I have six coil pair. On my new machine I have five pair. The end of one coil is connected to the beginning of the other.

    Leave a comment:


  • Netica
    replied
    Hello people,
    Sorry for butting in on this thread, this is off topic but not sure where to get help.
    I am wondering if anyone can help here.
    Problem
    I have a normal panel amp meter 0-5amp and want to use it to measure amperage, but the voltage is around 3 to 4 thousand volts.
    How should I hook it up?
    Do I just pass the positive through it like a normal hook up and make sure the meter is well isolated, or is there another way of doing it.
    Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post

    Yesterday's readings:
    Coil 1 - 293.8 volts
    Coil 2 - 308.2 volts
    Coil 3 - 317.4 volts
    Coil 4 - 335 volts
    Coil 5 - 313.4 volts
    Coil 6 - 315.2 volts
    Kind of confusing. 6 coils? Or 12 coils? or 6 coil packs? Which is it, plz be more clear, this is critical when choosing the proper electronics.

    It would seem that you have 12 coils and these readings are 2 coils put in series.

    Converters can be ganged up, switching supplies modified. But then again I am not sure now. I thought you had 12 individual coils but the data says you have 6.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Another issue reared its ugly head today, but I came up with a fix that will work. The epoxy I used to cement the magnets to the plates on the end of the adjustment screws didn't hold up under stress. It doesn't stick well to the magnets. So, I am going to use ten magnets that are 3/4 diameter by 1/8 thick. They have a tapered hole in the middle. I will put a bolt through that hole with a head on it that fits in the recess. Then the 3/4 by 3/4 magnet can stick to the bolt head and the other magnet. On the other side of the new magnet I will put a nut to hold the magnet in place secured with lock tight. The bolt will thread right through the holes in the machine as already designed, and I won't have to worry about epoxy letting go under heat. Where it sticks out of the coil holder on the other side I will put a nut and an acorn nut secured with lock tight. A nut driver will allow me to screw the adjustment magnet in and out. So now I'm waiting for the magnets to arrive.

    Leave a comment:


  • alexelectric
    replied
    Well Sir Dave, there are things to solve, and that is very interesting, keep trying and configuring various options, and say you are right, more magnets in the generator should work at lower revolutions, but you have to try it with these multi-wire coils, now These coils are very sensitive to rpm and load.



    And then the magnetic neutralization, which is a wonderful idea, but in my opinion there is a lot of pole-to-pole shock tension, I think that's what makes the generator the most unadjusted due to the effort generated.


    In the replica that I built of your generator, I am interested in seeing the acceleration of the generator, as soon as I achieve it, I want to try other air-core coils, with double magnet, as they build wind turbines, so it would not occupy the neutralizing magnets.

    Another idea would be to switch some repulsor coils, many variants of its generator can be made, it requires time and a lot of patience
    Last edited by alexelectric; 12-13-2020, 09:04 PM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    2800 RPM was with six magnets on the rotor. We have 12 now. 2800 RPM was with 3 strands on the coils each 1000 feet long. We have 12 now, wound in parallel and with groups of four connected in series. THIS version of the generator has never run long enough to get the data I need. It has always run for 10 minutes and something goes wrong and I have to haul it back to Greyland’s shop to be fixed. That’s why I finally just LEFT it there. It wasn’t doing me any good when it didn’t run for any length of time. And he has had it for more than a YEAR trying to fix every little problem. It FINALLY seems to be running consistently, but I’m not holding my breath. We may find out that 2200, 2000, or even 1800 is the correct ROM for this machine. I don’t know.

    I DO know what these coils will put out at MINIMUM because I used the same ones on a previous machine but with FEWER magnets. I DO know the input will be lower than I have claimed because 2800 is too high, and that means input voltage is too high. With the DC motor at 36 volts they were getting comparable RPM to what this AC motor is producing. The output will be way less than what it is NOW at a lower RPM. I expect it to be at LEAST what I claimed since we doubled the magnets, even though it might run slower. We will see. I sent them the info on the power supply and the motor controller Thanks for that. I think I have 3 or 4 of those power supplies, But I am going to order that motor controller TODAY to use with Black Beauty.

    And speaking of Black Beauty. I will be putting the adjustment magnets back in today and reshooting that video to reflect the changes. I used high temp epoxy so I hope it holds up. I’m also going to work on the mounts to hold coils in place and keep them from spinning. Can’t have THAT!

    Wont weld collar on shaft until pulleys get here and I make sure everything fits.

    As to that DC to DC converter... I have written to several companies. The input amperage is always less than 1 amp on the ones I have found. I need at least 1.5 amps, and 2 amps would be better just to be safe. I COULD rewind the coils with one long strand and have an increase in the voltage and a decrease in the amperage, but if I lose Amps on the Conversion to lower voltage DC, it doesn't do me any good. I am NOT going to try to get everything working with this to have a totally functioning machine that is a self runner and all that. If I CAN, and it is relatively simple, I will give it a shot, but my main focus is just to PROVE way more output than input and that "Neutral" coils and magnetic neutralization do what I said they do. I can do that by running it from the wall on a kilowatt meter and lighting up a bunch of 300 watt bulbs where voltage and amperage output can be measured. That's good enough for me. Let an electrical engineer take it from there. I have an old friend who is an electrical engineer and specializes in power systems management. He designed the longest operating DC system in the state of CA. By longest I mean in distance. So he knows a thing or two. a guy like him could solve all these problems in his SLEEP once he sees it running and I can prove the concepts. That's my goal.
    Last edited by Turion; 12-13-2020, 06:40 PM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Here is an example of a STEP-DOWN Converter. 200-400vdc input ($25) This one may not be your voltage so you may have to do a search to find what you need but they are available.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lambda-Powe...EAAOSwlRVfvTrs

    s-l1600.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • alexelectric
    replied
    And as Mike says, put the speed control to the 36 volt motor, put the charger or power supply, test the generator at 2800 rpm, at these revolutions the coils proposed by Mr Dave work.

    Maybe the coils can work at a lower speed, or more, but the tests that Mr. Dave always showed us was at 2800 rpm, and you have to have a speed control, otherwise you cannot find the optimal operating speed generator
    After it works by accelerating the generator or not by accelerating, you can proceed to change the motor, AC but with speed control, when I did not have the speed control I could not control the generator.


    The data that Mr. Dave is showing us, shows that the coils are not working properly, they do not accelerate or at least they should not slow down the motor, they are not at its optimal operating speed that Mr. Dave has repeated so many times. 2800 rpm.


    I have a speed control like the one Mike showed in the link, it allows me to control the 36 volt motor.

    From the 36 volt source and charger I am going to buy the 1000 watt one, so I can use it to charge the 36 volt batteries, while I work operating the generator.

    When one does not have the correct accessories to work, one does not advance correctly.

    for example, I was working with an AC motor, and it only gave me 1700 rpm, I did not have a speed regulator, in those conditions I did not advance.

    Last edited by alexelectric; 12-13-2020, 11:08 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    Since I KNOW the machine is slowing down a bit with every load added,

    That's an average output of about 313.8 at between 1.4-1.5 amps per coil pair.

    The DC motor drew 9 amps at 36 volts to run the generator
    peanuts, search term "36v motor speed control" pay $5 extra and get it inside the USA

    BTW yes you learn fast that an induction motor squirrel cage rotor speed can not so easily be adjusted perfect and still get the torque for which it is designed. Variac control for an induction motor is poor unless it has brushes running 115v known as a UNIVERSAL INDUCTION MOTOR like some grinder motors have. At this point you could rectify.

    PMM Dc motors are on the other hand made to adjust for all speeds by using a PWM module to keep the torque up high at many voltages. Go the advanced way and save energy. Buy a 20amp 36v switching power supply, plug that into the wall at 115v. Make sure you use a fuse to protect your investment. Let's say you need 10 amps then use a 15 amp fuse leaving a 5 amp ceiling left over. Send the power to a controller. The controller is a high efficiency pulse width modulating wave designed to optimize DC motor performance.

    Or you can use 3 X 12v batteries in series giving you 36v. This way you may devise ways to loop by charging the batteries off of the generator coils. Now you will need a 400vdc step down convert but first rectify to DC. It is cheap but requires learning where to buy boxes to hang on your rig.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-10A-to-...MAAOSwMjVfYdxE

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-10-55V-M...UAAOSwQrpfqOKv

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-24V-36V...kAAOSwEjFXfHF1

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1200W-Motor...wAAOSwUmxc~2tg
    Last edited by BroMikey; 12-13-2020, 11:10 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    That's the exact meter on Amazon I sent them a link to, as well as a link to a 20 amp Variac. I'm spending my money on MY build and another project right now. There are three or four guys working together to get that generator Greyland has up and running. I give them all the help I can by long distance.

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    P3 P4400 Kill A Watt meter is ~$35 at Amazon. Reads V, A, Hz, W, VA, PF, & KWH. bi
    ​​​​​​

    ​​

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    They got all the coil pair fixed as far as output went, so here is the output data for the coil pairs yesterday. This is across the load. I failed to ask if this is individually (and I bet it was) or all at the same time. I bet they measured one coil pair output across load, shut off the load, then measured the next coil pair output. Since I KNOW the machine is slowing down a bit with every load added, something needs to be done to get it back where we want it to be. Add wire to the coils, increase or decrease rpm, or add more magnets to the rotor. The SIMPLEST fix is to decrease the rpm and see if that solves the problem.

    Yesterday's readings:
    Coil 1 - 293.8 volts
    Coil 2 - 308.2 volts
    Coil 3 - 317.4 volts
    Coil 4 - 335 volts
    Coil 5 - 313.4 volts
    Coil 6 - 315.2 volts

    That's an average output of about 313.8 at between 1.4-1.5 amps per coil pair. At 1.4-1.5 amps peer coil pair, that's between 2,636 and 2,824 watts. The only issues now is that this will NOT be the output when those coils are being operated at the correct frequency. And I have NO IDEA what the actual input to the system is.

    The DC motor drew 9 amps at 36 volts to run the generator with the coils outputting correctly, but I NEVER got output numbers this high. That was a 324 watt input. My output was around 1800-2000 watts, not 2,636- 2,824 watts.
    The AC motor is drawing 7 amps at 115 volts or 805 watts, their RPM is higher and they have NOT measured input amps with all the coils lit up, so I have NO accurate data to show real input for the output they are getting. I have no idea how much the motor slows down, if it reaches a point of equilibrium where its rpm decreases to the point where the coils are now speed up under load coils, so everything balances out or WHAT happens. Does the motor drag down until it burns up? I have no idea. Time will tell, and sooner or later this will all get worked out. I encouraged them to buy a 20 amp Variac, so they could reduce the voltage input to the motor and slow it down. They could also put a bridge across the output of the variac and turn it into an adjustable DC power supply and run the DC motor. Then put a killowatt meter on the wall to plug the Variac into and have continuous input data. The bizarre thing in my mind is that the motor kicks off when drawing too many amps. That was happening before, so we KNOW it does that. But when they flip on the last load the RPM goes down. In my mind, the amp draw should also go UP because there motor should be drawing more current to deal with an additional load, but the motor is rated for 7.2 amps and is NOT kicking off, so something is going on that I do not understand. Apparently the amp draw is remaining the same. Based on what I have seen on the bench in the past, that shouldn't be happening. Lots to figure out, that's for sure.

    Leave a comment:


  • alexelectric
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    I've said for a while now that EVERY coil is a speed up under load coil (neutral coil) when run at the correct frequency. FREQUENCY is incredibly important. How do you CHANGE the frequency? Number of magnets on the rotor, or RPM of the rotor.

    Here's some data for you from the tests Greyland's team ran today. They FINALLY got all six sets of lights working, but one set of lights, when put under load, would cause the motor to slow down, and it would drag down the whole system.There are six pairs of coils connected to six 300 watt bulbs, and the switches are numbered 1-6. Logical, right. Number six was the culprit that was causing the entire system to drag. They tried replacing the switch They tried rewiring the coils and checking all the connections. It still drug the system down.

    It shouldn't be slowing down AT ALL, but it is. SO I asked them to turn on coil pair # 6 FIRST. They did, and then turned on the others in order. 6,1,2,3,4,5. When they got to the 5th set of coils and turned it on, the whole system drug down.

    I asked them to measure the RPM after each coil pair was turned on.

    Starting RPM was 3460

    Light #1 - 3440

    Light #2 - 3410

    Light #3 - 3359

    Light #4 - 3297

    Light #5 - 3120

    Light #6 - kills it

    So my original machine with 6 of the 2" magnets and three strands of #23 each 1,000 feet long was "neutral" at 2800 rpm. Below that, when a load was attached, the motor would bog down. At 2800 there was no reaction. At about 2900 there was speed up under load. When I went to a 12 magnet rotor the necessary RPM for "neutral" dropped. I never experimented with higher RPM than what I needed to get the "neutral" effect. I appears there was more to learn.

    These coils worked PERFECTLY with the MY102) as the run motor, but their RPM wasn't this high. Let me run something by those who have experimented with these kinds of coils. Here is my thought. The motor here is turning the rotor TOO fast for these coils to react properly. What if there is a speed at which the coil drags. You speed up the rotor and you are neutral. You speed up more and you get "speed up under load." WHAT IF, when you speed up AGAIN you get to the point where the coil is dragging again. Above that there may be another range where neutral occurs again and above that another range where speed up under load occurs again. Just a thought. Some experimenting on the bench will tell if I am right or wrong. But if there was a speed at which these coils had drag, and there was a speed above that at which they sped up under load (and there was, because with the MY1020 motor, that was the range we were operating in at 36 volts because I have SEEN it.) Then the fact that they are dragging again at a higher rpm is interesting data. I told them to slow the thing down and see what happens. They need a Variac so they can control the AC motor speed. They are getting one. If any of you are experimenting with these kinds of coils, I thought that might be useful information for you to have.
    All this data, and your information is very useful, for the construction of a replica of your generator, thanks for the information, Mr Dave.

    Mr. Dave what voltage did he get from the three wire coil, and what connection did he use

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Good data, keep it coming. Having (you know what I am about to say) the rpm 3400 drop to 3100 rpm will cause drive motor amps to double. I will guess 800watt input at 1500 watt out.
    Keep at it boys. You are going to get it just like you got the cancellation dialed in so 1 finger can spin the rotor. COP will rise.Heat will not rise (wild guess)Drive motor smoking gun.FFT (food for thought) 22mag/2=11 "odd" number, 5 pair of coil packs "odd" number. Rotor needs "odd" number of coil packs not "even". Closed loop field crushing the process. Leave the back door open.

    Maybe that is why the other guy building had such a high amp draw with 48 poles.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 12-12-2020, 06:34 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    I've said for a while now that EVERY coil is a speed up under load coil (neutral coil) when run at the correct frequency. FREQUENCY is incredibly important. How do you CHANGE the frequency? Number of magnets on the rotor, or RPM of the rotor.

    Here's some data for you from the tests Greyland's team ran today. They FINALLY got all six sets of lights working, but one set of lights, when put under load, would cause the motor to slow down, and it would drag down the whole system.There are six pairs of coils connected to six 300 watt bulbs, and the switches are numbered 1-6. Logical, right. Number six was the culprit that was causing the entire system to drag. They tried replacing the switch They tried rewiring the coils and checking all the connections. It still drug the system down.

    It shouldn't be slowing down AT ALL, but it is. SO I asked them to turn on coil pair # 6 FIRST. They did, and then turned on the others in order. 6,1,2,3,4,5. When they got to the 5th set of coils and turned it on, the whole system drug down.

    I asked them to measure the RPM after each coil pair was turned on.

    Starting RPM was 3460

    Light #1 - 3440

    Light #2 - 3410

    Light #3 - 3359

    Light #4 - 3297

    Light #5 - 3120

    Light #6 - kills it

    So my original machine with 6 of the 2" magnets and three strands of #23 each 1,000 feet long was "neutral" at 2800 rpm. Below that, when a load was attached, the motor would bog down. At 2800 there was no reaction. At about 2900 there was speed up under load. When I went to a 12 magnet rotor the necessary RPM for "neutral" dropped. I never experimented with higher RPM than what I needed to get the "neutral" effect. I appears there was more to learn.

    These coils worked PERFECTLY with the MY1020 as the run motor, but their RPM wasn't this high. Let me run something by those who have experimented with these kinds of coils. Here is my thought. The motor here is turning the rotor TOO fast for these coils to react properly. What if there is a speed at which the coil drags. You speed up the rotor and you are neutral. You speed up more and you get "speed up under load." WHAT IF, when you speed up AGAIN you get to the point where the coil is dragging again. Above that there may be another range where neutral occurs again and above that another range where speed up under load occurs again. Just a thought. Some experimenting on the bench will tell if I am right or wrong. But if there was a speed at which these coils had drag, and there was a speed above that at which they sped up under load (and there was, because with the MY1020 motor, that was the range we were operating in at 36 volts because I have SEEN it.) Then the fact that they are dragging again at a higher rpm is interesting data. I told them to slow the thing down and see what happens. They need a Variac so they can control the AC motor speed. They are getting one. If any of you are experimenting with these kinds of coils, I thought that might be useful information for you to have.
    Last edited by Turion; 12-12-2020, 08:05 AM.

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