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  • Turion
    replied
    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post
    Also I would like to point out that when a rotor has magnets so close together that there is very little space between tham AND the right dimension core block, cogging can be cut down to nothing without the need for the opposition magnets Turion has suggested. This is due to a perfect condition that can exist during the operation of an energized coil which generates power. If the right geometry is chosen the core is always half way over the "S" magnet and half way over the "N" magnet with each magnet assisting the core in the direction of rotation.
    That's NOT possible. Rotors turn. Thats what they do. A rotor magnet can't maintain a position where half of it is over a magnet of one polarity and the other half is over a magnet of another polarity. If it COULD, there would be no flux change to induce electricity in the coil anyway. At SOME POINT the rotor magnet will be directly aligned with the core of the coil. This is the moment of truth.

    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post
    Very little opposition will occur.
    It isn't opposition that is the problem, it is the attraction of the rotor magnet to the coil core. Alignment can happen all at once, like my big machine where all 6 coil pair align with all 6 magnets at the same time, or you can spread it out like with my new machine where only 1 coil pair aligns with a magnet at one time. Either way, it still happens.



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  • Turion
    replied

    It's Christmas, and with everything going on in the world, times are tough for everybody. I consider myself EXTREMELY fortunate to have the money to work on this stuff, but I work on a budget. Sometimes I have to save up for MONTHS to get what I need. I just exhausted my budget to get MOST of what I wanted for this generator. I still don't have an amp and volt meter for every coil. I still don't have a new kill-a-watt meter, and I still don't have any wire to wind new coils. I need to wind ONE new coil with longer wire on it and I probably have enough to do that. As far as the rest of my coils go, I will be knocking out the old iron cores with a punch to put in the new ferrite cores or met-glass or whatever, so that I don't HAVE to wind new coils. (I cannot express how much I hate winding coils!!!!) I have enough factory ferrite cores for ALL of my coils, so I will at least make THAT upgrade from iron. Whether I can afford met-glass for a while remains to be seen. From what I can see it's about $300.00 plus shipping for the core material and the wire to do two coils with the stuff you suggested bro. I finally heard form a nice lady in China. She got what I wanted incorrect, but it was enough correct info to figure out the cost. I know I have been critical in the past of people who have not built this machine telling me what I have done wrong or that I don't know what I am talking about. It will probably ALWAYS irk me when that happens. But I sincerely appreciate all the comments and participation of everyone here. Yes, bistander, this includes you. You rub me the wrong way almost all the time, but that isn't always a bad thing. Sometimes I get up off the couch when I am tired and don't want to, simply because I'm determined to prove you wrong. Anyway, thanks to all of you. I know there are folks out there who don't contribute, but who are still building. Keep doing it. There is more than one way to achieve free energy, but you won't find it sitting on the couch. You just have to keep looking. Merry Christmas all.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post

    You say one coil is at TDC in attraction and one is at TDC in repulsion. This creates a neutral situation. Entirely possible. But YOU think about it for a moment. That means one of the two coils is NOT outputting it’s maximum as a generator coil. It CAN’T be. If a coil is being used to accelerate, it does not put out its maximum. If a coil is being used as a drag, it does not put out its maximum. There is only one position where a coil puts out its maximum and that is when it is neutral.
    No that is not what I am saying. I guess I am a bad teacher. Anyway your entries all make great sense. Let me show you again sometime what I was saying. You did not get what I was saying yet. There is only one coil in the entire discussion that I am referring to and obviously I did a poor job. It is at this point that I enjoy all of your thesis, sharing your years of advanced research. Stay open. I also feel bad for Thane as I watch him struggle for words in his board talks.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 12-22-2020, 07:51 PM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    The Lenz reaction is GOING to happen. That’s why it’s a law. (Guys like me view it as a “reaction” not a “law”, but that’s me) WHEN it happens is all you can control and that affects the OUTPUT of your coil. This is a fact.

    Magnets are attracted to iron cores. UNLESS that core has been turned into a repulsing electromagnet through the action of Lenz or by supplying it with external power. This is ANOTHER fact.

    You say one coil is at TDC in attraction and one is at TDC in repulsion. This creates a neutral situation. Entirely possible. But YOU think about it for a moment. That means one of the two coils is NOT outputting it’s maximum as a generator coil. It CAN’T be. If a coil is being used to accelerate, it does not put out its maximum. If a coil is being used as a drag, it does not put out its maximum. There is only one position where a coil puts out its maximum and that is when it is neutral.

    Thane is using Lenz to “neutralize” the attraction of magnets to the iron core, or magnetic drag. I completely understand EXACTLY what he is doing. It is one of the things I experimented with early on. It absolutely works. Positively. I’m a believer.

    But you sacrifice coil output as a generator coil to make it happen. It’s just math. Do the math. When you start manipulating Lenz it becomes very interesting, and there is usually more than one way to skin a cat. If you ever get more than one coil on your machine, you will be able to try to do what Thane is doing. I wish you luck. I know what I know because I HAVE built it, and it led me in a different direction.

    If one coil is in attraction at a specific point in time that another coil is in repulsion they CANNOT have the same capacitance or their reaction would be exactly the same. Therefore one CANNOT output the same as the other. This means Thane has done the work to figure out EXACTLY the capacitance he needs for these two coils to completely offset each other. It also means he has two different coils on his machine. Half are one capacitance and half are the other. Figuring that out is a tremendous amount of work and my hat is off to him for that. I understand better than most how incredibly difficult that is because I have been there.

    I’m not saying what Thane is doing doesn’t WORK, I’m just saying I do not believe it is the most efficient solution. I could be wrong. I’ve been wrong before. Ask bistander. He’s probably got a list of times I’ve been wrong. But from what I have SEEN, I believe there is a more efficient way.

    There is usually more than one way to accomplish every goal and we each approach a goal according to our strengths and understanding. I’m sure there may be better ways to do what we are doing. I’m open to new ideas. But I have tried a lot of different things over the last 12 years with this machine, and I understand a lot about what will work and what won’t, and about what is more efficient. Thane is way ahead on core material and probably on the kind of wire to use. Figuring out what is BEST is not something I want to spend the time on. That is for others who want to pursue developing this. I had two goals with this machine and I accomplished both of them. Time to move on and let others take it from here. There are two groups I am associated with that are working on it. Better them than me! I’m finishing this prototype because it is a solid, SAFE build I can present at the conference. If I can change core materials or wire between now and then, or even show output differences between different KINDS of coil pairs on the machine, I am up for that. I have two iron cores, two home made ferrite cores, two factory and two factory ferrite cores. I would love to add two met-glass cores and two cores with the other possible core material you were talking about. It would make a great demo machine and provide a lot of information about what is possible. I’m going to work on making that happen once the machine is together. Still waiting on magnets and pieces for the magnetic opposition.
    Damn it this is hard to explain. Looks like you out done me again. I'll have to read this more closely then I will get back to you. Thanks big guy.Let me think it over.

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  • Turion
    replied
    The Lenz reaction is GOING to happen. That’s why it’s a law. (Guys like me view it as a “reaction” not a “law”, but that’s me) WHEN it happens is all you can control and that affects the OUTPUT of your coil. This is a fact.

    Magnets are attracted to iron cores. UNLESS that core has been turned into a repulsing electromagnet through the action of Lenz or by supplying it with external power. This is ANOTHER fact.

    You say one coil is at TDC in attraction and one is at TDC in repulsion. This creates a neutral situation. Entirely possible. But YOU think about it for a moment. That means one of the two coils is NOT outputting it’s maximum as a generator coil. It CAN’T be. If a coil is being used to accelerate, it does not put out its maximum. If a coil is being used as a drag, it does not put out its maximum. There is only one position where a coil puts out its maximum and that is when it is neutral.

    Thane is using Lenz to “neutralize” the attraction of magnets to the iron core, or magnetic drag. I completely understand EXACTLY what he is doing. It is one of the things I experimented with early on. It absolutely works. Positively. I’m a believer.

    But you sacrifice coil output as a generator coil to make it happen. It’s just math. Do the math. When you start manipulating Lenz it becomes very interesting, and there is usually more than one way to skin a cat. If you ever get more than one coil on your machine, you will be able to try to do what Thane is doing. I wish you luck. I know what I know because I HAVE built it, and it led me in a different direction.

    If one coil is in attraction at a specific point in time that another coil is in repulsion they CANNOT have the same capacitance or their reaction would be exactly the same. Therefore one CANNOT output the same as the other. This means Thane has done the work to figure out EXACTLY the capacitance he needs for these two coils to completely offset each other. It also means he has two different coils on his machine. Half are one capacitance and half are the other. Figuring that out is a tremendous amount of work and my hat is off to him for that. I understand better than most how incredibly difficult that is because I have been there.

    I’m not saying what Thane is doing doesn’t WORK, I’m just saying I do not believe it is the most efficient solution. I could be wrong. I’ve been wrong before. Ask bistander. He’s probably got a list of times I’ve been wrong. But from what I have SEEN, I believe there is a more efficient way.

    There is usually more than one way to accomplish every goal and we each approach a goal according to our strengths and understanding. I’m sure there may be better ways to do what we are doing. I’m open to new ideas. But I have tried a lot of different things over the last 12 years with this machine, and I understand a lot about what will work and what won’t, and about what is more efficient. Thane is way ahead on core material and probably on the kind of wire to use. Figuring out what is BEST is not something I want to spend the time on. That is for others who want to pursue developing this. I had two goals with this machine and I accomplished both of them. Time to move on and let others take it from here. There are two groups I am associated with that are working on it. Better them than me! I’m finishing this prototype because it is a solid, SAFE build I can present at the conference. If I can change core materials or wire between now and then, or even show output differences between different KINDS of coil pairs on the machine, I am up for that. I have two iron cores, two home made ferrite cores, and two factory ferrite cores. I would love to add two met-glass cores and two cores with the other possible core material you were talking about. It would make a great demo machine and provide a lot of information about what is possible. I’m going to work on making that happen once the machine is together. Still waiting on magnets and pieces for the magnetic opposition.
    Last edited by Turion; 12-22-2020, 08:32 PM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    Magnetic drag NEVER goes away unless neutralized. I have said this many times, yet you choose to ignore it. Your loss.
    It is neutralized, just not your method. This method lowers drag and your method lowers drag, it is never all totally cancelled. Better go back and think about what I wrote. This is it in a nut shell, once again from the top. Please put on your thinking cap for just a moment, big stuff

    2 magnets with a core block half on and half off, both magnets and both assisting the rotor in the direction of rotation. The south pulling and the north pushing at the same time, as the core reaches the tdc the north poles repel with the next incoming magnet being a south that attracts the north core.

    Did you see it go over?

    All of this ONLY takes place at speed or when the gen coil is creating a north or south field. Without the coil being energized the rotor is going to cog terribly.
    Only at speed does this explanation apply and the field winding filling.

    In order to understand this essay plz review the board talks that explain the coil charge and it's magnetic polarity. Otherwise it appear you can not learn new things because the only teacher is hard for you to learn from. Or is it more that you have already made up your mind and demand everyone do these generators the the way YOU tell them? Your loss. I understand your statements all. I have lost nothing. Can you say the same?

    Don't blame me if you can't see it. I only work here.I am doing my best. I'll try ta learn ya dern ya. You know, keep pounding it into that thick grey matter? That is why Thane keeps doing repeat video's and I keep watching them, it finally sinks in.But some take longer than others being quite a bit thicker.

    Are you saying your idea is the only way? The proof is in the pudding, so did you build one this way that you did not tell anyone about? Are you keeping secrets Dave?

    Your way sure is nice on start up and great at speed. So I think your way is better. But that is not the point. The rest of the story has not been presented here so when you see this part of it, I can finish. After all these generators can be started using the same coils, once up to speed flip to genny mode. More electronics. This stuff is not for you Dave, just ignore it. I don't want you overloaded and blown out. Just trying to think of ways to eliminate the extra magnets. Someone did, it wasn't me, I only work here. Well they were trying to lower cogging? Yeah.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 12-22-2020, 10:22 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    Magnetic drag NEVER goes away unless neutralized. I have said this many times, yet you choose to ignore it. Your loss.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Also I would like to point out that when a rotor has magnets so close together that there is very little space between tham AND the right dimension core block, cogging can be cut down to nothing without the need for the opposition magnets Turion has suggested. This is due to a perfect condition that can exist during the operation of an energized coil which generates power. If the right geometry is chosen the core is always half way over the "S" magnet and half way over the "N" magnet with each magnet assisting the core in the direction of rotation. Very little opposition will occur. Think about it. It takes thousands of hours to conclude all these findings. Most of you will look at this short essay and just ignore it. Your loss.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 12-22-2020, 07:01 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    And I forgot just plain adding capacitance to a coil with capacitors. Works every time.
    He said that with these big coils that were used were single pieces of wire. No bifilar and it works. Just a long enough wire gives speed up. He did also say that the voltage for each coil was up over 120vac like yours does. No surprise there. Now look at the construct. The coil cores are connected using metal to redirect flux. This was his early experimental days. he told us also that in this version the gaps were 1/4". Crazy big gaps. Who knows what the results would have been at 1/16"? Well I'll can tell you, I tried those gap on the same rig. Speed up comes much sooner at 1/16". Thane jumped to another version and said he would attempt to close the gaps. With his first "C" core he came in from one side, skipping 2 magnets under the core giving a "N" and a "S" magnet interaction. I assume the gap went to 1/8" by the results. Then later he went to the self centering "C" core so he could close the gap more, with a core pole, one on each side of the magnet rotor. Again a core having both a "N" magnet and a "S" interaction. All bifilar. The recent video board talks cover the wires being side by side act as a capacitor that hold voltage in the ELECTROSTATIC field which is how a capacitor stores energy.

    With a tight enough gap and low voltage of around half the previous plus so many poles, not to mention bifilar windings, it stands to reason that he system operates on the same principles as does yours. These shorter coils give a 2 amp continuous as Thane JUST said with a 24 coils setup 50 amps are produced. Short runs go to 4 amps before over heating but that ain't chicken wire core material, it is state of the art cheapo laminate tape of the proper grade to respond quickly enough at the higher pulse rate so the wasted energy does not build up and melt the wire. Instead the waste heat energy is collected and goes down the wire as electricity. This too allows for a smaller coil yet again.

    BTW to answer you, yes that rod is Permalloy and not Ferrite an could work. Just get the right size and pop them in and out. Good point. Have fun finding your size, I am sure it can be done.3/4" is also 19MM
    Last edited by BroMikey; 12-22-2020, 06:43 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    And I forgot just plain adding capacitance to a coil with capacitors. Works every time.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    If you look at the link, those rods are NOT ferrite, but Permalloy 1J79 bar

    And NOBODY on this forum has replicated a THANE coil because he has not released exactly HOW his current coils are made. I know that for a FACT. The information he has released is NOT enough to replicate. There is a REASON those working with him are under NDA's. It isn't just for fun.
    Dude you are forgetting common deductive reasoning. Look at Thane's first few builds with the 3"x3" coils like yours. Now count the number of poles. (6)
    Then he went to 24 poles and smaller coils at lower voltages. Not hard to figure out. His coils are bifilar now, not then, he tell you that. Like you said ANY coil will work in the proper application.No he is not spoon feeding.
    perepiteia%201.jpg
    Last edited by BroMikey; 12-22-2020, 06:45 AM.

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  • alexelectric
    replied
    Yes Mr. Dave, you have already listed it several times, some of those variables, are classic induction and power generation.

    The novelty is the multi-wire coil, I knew the bifilar coil from the bedini motor, and the multi-wire coil from your Mr. Dave project.

    The project for the generation of 6 magnets and coils tells us that at 2800 rpm, it obtained the benefit of not rentelizing the motor, when it connected the load to the coil, and had them connected in pairs of two, serial connection, so it could have optimal generation.

    ok, the coil had an optimal duty cycle at 2800 rpm, if it goes out of that speed it is no longer optimally generated and it starts to brake the engine, it has already informed us everything in detail.

    ok, my question was how to do the acceleration, regardless of the rpm, and a single coil, has to do with the inductance and imperance of the coil, and there it goes well as Mr. Dave comments, the length of the wires, the quantity of the threads, the connection, who has achieved it like this, to accelerate with a single coil, see Thane's explanations and those of Mr. Dave, and you will be able to understand and do it.

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  • Turion
    replied
    I've listed the variables a number of times
    1. RPM of the motor
    2. # of magnets on the rotor
    3. With many strands wound in parallel, how many you connect in series
    4. Core material
    5. Mass of the core material
    6. Length of wire
    7. Size of the wire
    8. Whether bistander is watching or not.

    Change any ONE of those and it affects the rest. Especially that last one.

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  • alexelectric
    replied
    Is there a way to accelerate a coil at different speeds and without battling for speed? I think I know how Thane uses something on his coil

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  • Turion
    replied
    If you look at the link, those rods are NOT ferrite, but Permalloy 1J79 bar

    And NOBODY on this forum has replicated a THANE coil because he has not released exactly HOW his current coils are made. I know that for a FACT. The information he has released is NOT enough to replicate. There is a REASON those working with him are under NDA's. It isn't just for fun.
    Last edited by Turion; 12-22-2020, 02:06 AM.

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