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  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Alex, the torque of those motors is absolutely amazing, just look at this video. People try some daft things!
    You could wind those motors with all sorts of coils using thinner wire. Obviously you wouldn't be able to use high current but it would serve as a proof of concept. I'm currently using four of them at the moment and they'll go up to 2k rpm no bother. I guess you'd get good power even with lighter coils.
    Have fun, Xavier.

    https://youtu.be/VeF4XAhqFNk

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  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Thank you Alex. You see what I'm getting at, Thane's idea as described by Bro seems totally unfeasible. There's no way you can run a motor off a battery and recharge it at the same time, it's nonsensical! You can bet your bottom dollar Thane's contraptions would stop dead if you pulled the wall plug.

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  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Bro, what you described to me re Thane's work, that is motor coils and the regeneration coils. In the video of the bike, that motor has 42 poles. You could use 14 of those as motor poles and 28 as regeneration coils.
    You must agree that the printed magnet holders are awesome and configuration of the magnets in Halbach array is inspired.
    I've been on OU.com since 2005 so I've seen a thing or two. I must say that bike is one of the best builds I've ever seen.

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  • alexelectric
    replied
    Quantum_well
    This is what I comment, there are always new ideas, projects, improvements to prototypes, innovations and adaptations to have better performance or efficiency, adapting the devices to our needs, creativity has no limit.

    Your comment
    "This 42-pole motor can be used with 14 motor coils and 28 regeneration coils"

    This is one more option, and others can be adapted, everyone will look for what they require.

    The man from the video changed the magnets for stronger ones (neodymium), of course it will have more torque, it will support more stress and weight the motor, very good adaptation, now if the motor is used as a motor and generator as you mentioned, reduce the coils The engine would result in a decrease in torque, and when the generator begins to generate it would be like a brake through the lenz, there would be a decrease in speed, it can be done as you say, it would only be to see how much is gained or lost, or if you get something acceptable.

    You can continue modifying the configuration, I can think of a motor time lapse and the next step as a generator, you need to perform the commented tests, and see the results, how much is really gained, but from the outset, the conventional generator although it generates charge the battery, it would be a brake.

    I have worked with electric motorcycles, and I know the subject.

    Now, coils with high impedance could be incorporated, to achieve acceleration, but there is not enough space in the motor, in addition, the revolutions are somewhat low to incorporate or rewind coils that require more speed to show their generation effect, what I comment is An idea, and proposal, for some there is already the prototype with Mr. Thane's project and other prototypes like Mr. Dave's project, they could also serve, but some researchers do not give credit to these works, well, what if I can say that one can test the prototypes of Mr. Dave and Mr. Thane in a small prototype and see the results, and thus test himself, if it is viable or not, this is for those who want to experiment and test the prototypes.

    Everything is important and very interesting, since each one will see what he can do according to his knowledge capacities, his economic capacity, and his availability of time and effort.


    Any comment or suggestion for or against, the purposeful and respectful debate helps us find better ideas and projects, we are here to contribute and advance, there is much to do and experience.

    "Everything takes time and effort, many hours of adjustments and experimental tests, until you get what you need" alexelectric

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Quantum_well View Post
    Bro,.....
    I'd like to say that I've been interested in these ideas for many years, being totally hooked on the Bedini motor for battery charging.
    Let me now address your quest to follow THE Great John Bedini or as many say John Boy Bedini. Such an inquisitive and gentle soul. He has many stars.

    If you can understand this John did what we are doing. Remember his generator coils? He had a thousand builds. One build the rotor turned faster and his generator coils were very very long. Then he hooked all in series. This raised his efficiency dramatically. John did run out of time but before he and his brother left, yet John recognized what Dave Bowling was reading from a Tesla patent. John also watched Dave speak on this forum for a number of years and knew that from Turion's experimental work that he might someone bring forth a practical build. Dave has only shown his work behind the board. There has always been a board running parallel to this board where they can see all of our comments and snicker but we can not see.

    This is quite alright, I think a background board is a good thing as so many personalities are unable to cope with the endless bludgeoning. I say come and get some.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 02-16-2021, 07:58 PM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Quantum_well View Post
    Bro, this guy is a genius. This motor would lend itself ideally to Thane's idea you described to me. This 42 pole motor could be used with 14 motor coils and 28 regeneration coils . You've got to admit Thane's attempt at an Ebike is nowhere near in the same league as Whynot cycles bike.
    I'd like to say that I've been interested in these ideas for many years, being totally hooked on the Bedini motor for battery charging. Needless to say I haven't found anything that works........yet!
    https://youtu.be/EZELVYpDbVk
    Agreed, he is a genius however his invention does take millions and does not have a single thing to do with our simple Tesla invention. Fuel cells are a great million dollar invention, cold fusion is also but does not apply.

    Once again Tesla laid out a generator coil that has self induction and later invented another coil for generators with no self induction. In Tesla's second coil design the operator can draw current from these coils without creating negative work (Thank Thane). Negative work costs money just like positive work cost money. The negative work is called BEMF or
    BACK-ELECTRO- MOTIVE -FORCE. This brings us to the "BACK" word. Back meaning against the work. Tesla's work is so simple that a generator can now be refitted so that instead of a less than 1.O COP the unit becomes infinite.

    As we look at Physics we see the work energy principle. In the case of an electric motor formula exists for the positive work done and can be calculated. However the negative work is not covered or completely ignored. To the thinking mind this is called an error.

    Consequently when you plug in all of the numbers your answer is incomplete.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 02-16-2021, 07:55 PM.

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  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Bro, this guy is a genius. This motor would lend itself ideally to Thane's idea you described to me. This 42 pole motor could be used with 14 motor coils and 28 regeneration coils . You've got to admit Thane's attempt at an Ebike is nowhere near in the same league as Whynot cycles bike.
    I'd like to say that I've been interested in these ideas for many years, being totally hooked on the Bedini motor for battery charging. Needless to say I haven't found anything that works........yet!
    https://youtu.be/EZELVYpDbVk

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Quantum_well View Post
    I really think this video is at least worth a few minutes of anyone's time.
    Physics has a certain beauty to it and a bit education will help anyone in their enjoyment.
    https://youtu.be/Oo0jm1PPRuo
    High dollar processes putting all hope outside the range of the average person to achieve new beginnings, not reality. This has always been the tact so if you like then believe them. The machine has it's place being an accurate measuring device but has nothing to do with our discussion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quantum_well
    replied
    I really think this video is at least worth a few minutes of anyone's time.
    Physics has a certain beauty to it and a bit education will help anyone in their enjoyment.
    https://youtu.be/Oo0jm1PPRuo

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Quantum_well View Post
    Bro

    ......... to prove a concept. Turion obviously spends a small fortune ............
    Like wise with Thane, he surrounds himself with loads of junk,

    ...whatever the bicycle has to do with anything I can't imagine........................ and doesn't
    clearly show or explain the numbers.
    It is simple, Thane's ebike parts like the wheel and the bearing drag takes energy and then Thane shows us the ebike motor battery power is as follows. 74.5vdc at 5amp draw and dropping.

    Then Thane is showing the heavy parts of the ebike moving, throws the switch.

    When the switch is throw the battery voltages starts climbing because the generator coils are delivering 75+vdc at 5.5amps while work is being done. So all of that work is taking place and the battery voltage goes up.

    Are you that blind, that you can't see how the mass represents the seat of your pants needing a ride? Something has to move down the road.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 02-15-2021, 10:16 PM.

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  • alexelectric
    replied
    Well mikey, every researcher wants some recognition, to increase their finances, and this is valid, Thane has a patent, we can wonder why he has not produced a prototype for sale with his patent, and we can continue questioning and asking about his generator What if I see that it can be taken advantage of with the information they give, even if it is incomplete, from reading them so much and watching the videos these and others, one begins to spin their own ideas, and proceed to investigate and experiment, if Achieving an advance of 5% or more is significant, but this is the science of experimentation, some projects will have faster advances, others will not, every year, there are advances in industrial prototypes, etc.

    We are here because we like to investigate and experiment, with their sacrifices and costs, with different good and bad results, but I do believe that the great researchers and laboratories, despite having failures, continue to investigate, and I believe that there are some things that are around here, and that we are just making progress, maybe they have solved many things, we must remember that these consortiums have a lot of resources.


    Anyone of us who build a motor or generator, we are satisfied that we do it independently if it is like the common ones, but we did it, for example a simple circuit of the thief joules, it serves me and I illuminate my room with LEDs and it serves me and save, and so we can continue.

    Quantum_well thank you for your comment, and if very interesting the Lorentz transformation and Einstein relativity.

    There are individuals who always have the concern to know and improve what is presented, investigate and create their own prototypes, experiment, here in the forum there are several of those, and if as mentioned Mr. Dave has paid time and finances, and He is about to complete his prototype, he will give favorable or unfavorable accounts, from that we will learn, if progress was good, but it is interesting, look, I am making a simple replica, and if it does not work, and if it does not give the results expected, what does it matter, the coil can be used in any way, the magnets, I adapt them to a wind turbine, or I take advantage of them to build a conventional generator, another example I use the bedini engine to make a low consumption fan, and If it is advance because I save the cost of the electrical network.

    A setback or failure will not stop the investigations, it will be assessed that it did not work because it does not work, what materials can be replaced, what needs to be done again, etc. The restlessness of the investigations continue, see this forum and other projects, see other forums and their projects, see the conferences of this forum that are held every year, see Aron's videos, and the replicas of the projects that he presents, they learn from them, and what you can contribute can also be learned

    "Everything takes time and effort, many hours of adjustments and experimental tests, until you get what you need" alexelectric
    Last edited by alexelectric; 02-15-2021, 09:58 PM.

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  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Bro and Alex. Throughout one's life there are good days and bad days. One of the most exciting days for me was the day I learned how an electric current is induced in a conductor. It all falls in to place when one discovers Lorentz transformation and Einstein's relativity.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classi...ial_relativity
    There's absolutely no need to "go big" with a build to prove a concept. Turion obviously spends a small fortune on hardware when a small tabletop version could do a better job.
    Like wise with Thane, he surrounds himself with loads of junk, whatever the bicycle has to do with anything I can't imagine. One of the worst aspects of his videos is that he tries to talk over some motor screaming away and doesn't
    clearly show or explain the numbers.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by alexelectric View Post
    Interesting to read and evaluate, and continue documenting, and experimenting, checking, trying to follow the projects, replicating them, improving them, evaluating whether they work or not, or that we can advance from them, learn from the advances and setbacks.

    I want to express that the respectful debate helps us to build, the discredit undermines the one who does it.

    alexelectric
    Push back is all we get here most of the time. Thane has his way which seems to be evil to Turion and Mattie's way of doing things. What makes the most sense is to listen to people who do not respond in a purely arrogant and hateful way. Thus Thane Heins. Those other who we still love and admire continually opposing the results and showing no project will be left in the dust.

    People who run their mouths, boasting big boasts like Thane Heins have not only given good explanation on paper + babbling about how it is a perpetual motion machine have also put their money where their mouth is. The money builds the machine. Then poor ole Thane has the balls to prove all his theories before the world. Since then everybody wants to castrate poor ole Thane for sticking out his neck, proving he is the only one who is right.

    Thane is a meek person and understands the consequences. Follow the best. Others can have small entries that help just have to over look the character flaws. Guys like Dave want to make some money off this so he may have his hands tied already. This would explain the change in data.

    We don't need any smoke and mirrors bought on by people who have found a greater vested interest over the weekend so suddenly the chips are all rearranged. I see my bench work here and I see Thanes bench work at his shop. This is all we have to go on.

    The rest is only lies and deceitful chatter designed to manipulate, divert and so forth. Stick with me and I'll keep you all on the straight and narrow. Warning, you come against me, you do it because you have no interest in the real science just LIKE John Bedini said. John B passed on a few years back and before he left John validated this work as another building block of his experiments. John knew this work, how it worked and that it would work.

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  • alexelectric
    replied
    Interesting to read and evaluate, and continue documenting, and experimenting, checking, trying to follow the projects, replicating them, improving them, evaluating whether they work or not, or that we can advance from them, learn from the advances and setbacks.

    The videos of Thane when he explains the theoretical variables of the coils and generators, explains, The electrical resistance, the capacitance, the inductance, the reactance, the impedance, all those factors that intervene in the coils, and their formulas are known, any student of Electronics knows them, these variables and formulas are understandable, Thane is there to give his explanation about his generator coil.

    Mr. Thane comments that the large capacitance in the coil helps us to delay the activation of the coil as a generator (Since tesla had already been announced, and other researchers have based their projects on that principle), the whole process has already been mentioned a lot why acceleration occurs, also explained by Mike, Mr. Dave, and other experimenters.

    Ok, simple or difficult? A coil with longer wires, or multiple wires, will have more capacitance, is that understood? ok, when you put the coil to produce at high speed, the current will be delayed, and it is activated at a precise moment, all this is explained in the videos of Thane, Mike, Mr. Dave.

    Ok, what follows, try to test it, do your, try to experiment, and test for you, because if others show progress, there are users who deny everything, there are also those who accept everything.

    Very simple, I have a coil with the characteristics already mentioned and I carry out the test, it accelerates the rotor, braking is avoided, we have an advance, although Mr. Dave says that the best generating coil is the one that does not accelerate or brake.

    Continuing and advancing, assuming that Thane's coil or generator, when it is generating 30% of what it consumes of what it is applying to generate, this is important if I value it in this way, the example of the electric motorcycle, I go in She at high speed I am consuming the battery, if the generator coils do not brake the motor, and they generate 30%, it means that I can apply 30% more charge to the battery, without having a braking or slowing down , and so the battery could have better performance. And in the case of using a conventional generator, the speed would be affected by reducing it and there would be braking.

    . 30% is an example, it could be more or less, or nothing, it depends on what you have experienced.

    In generators proposals, there is information that allows us to experiment, and according to your test bench data you will know that you have (Mr. Dave), another user who has illustrated us about his project.

    I want to express that the respectful debate helps us to build, the discredit undermines the one who does it.

    There is already a lot of information about generator coils that accelerate the rotor (we are not talking about conventional coils that brake), it is about experimenting and continuing to find improvements.

    "Everything takes time and effort, many hours of adjustments and experimental tests, until you get what you need" alexelectric
    Last edited by alexelectric; 02-15-2021, 08:27 PM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Quantum_well View Post
    I............which in his case is irrelevant.
    If Thane's device works as you say all you need is one rotor, give it a spin with a length of rope and off it goes!
    I'll keep watching like I've been doing for the last twelve years.
    yes that is correct with one of Thanes versions I just posted in recent days just released this year showing up with 3 colors and pointed at by Thane. Each coil is colored and the explanation is there.

    This is all so very simple. The length of each coil to generate power is a little longer than a conventional coil for a standard generator. This is the heart of the matter. Understand this and you have it all.

    The added length causes the coil that generate power to be delayed in the timing of when the coil peaks out to release the power to charge the battery. Or you could look at this another way. You could say a normal coil is so short that by the time the magnet reaches the core / coil it is fighting the rotor so the power must be cranked up to get the magnet all of the way past the core.

    Reversing thought we say that for the new coil that is a tad longer that as the magnet goes toward the core this time the build up of current is delayed till it travels a tad past top dead center. TDC. That just means that the magnet got past the magnet a hair and THEN the current in the coil is released to generate power to a battery. At the same time since the release comes after the core, the now North and North repelling helps the rotor on past to the next core and the action repeats.

    We can also say that the north and north repelling action happens in a standard generator just before it can pass TDC fighting the rotor creating negative work or BEMF
    Last edited by BroMikey; 02-15-2021, 02:28 AM.

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