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  • Turion
    replied
    I find it humorous that bistander has dumped all over the 3 Battery System for YEARS, but now that you are posting data, he has nothing to say. Wonder why?

    oh, wait, he said he doesn’t need to build it because he knows everything about it. LOL
    Last edited by Turion; 08-04-2022, 12:34 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    THIS SCHEMATIC IS DRAWN FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY. HIGH VOLTAGE DC CAN KILL YOU
    YOU DEFINITELY SHOULD NOT SEND HIGH VOLTAGE THROUGH A SMALL LOAD BACK TO THE CHARGE BATTERY.


    To go to the next level you need a high voltage source of DC, because you can’t recover AC, only DC. But you also need a buck so you don't hit your charge battery with too high a voltage. So you could run an inverter off a battery and put a bridge rectifier on it or use:

    https://www.amazon.com/DEVMO-45-390V...356343486&th=1

    You will get higher voltage out of the boost than you will an inverter and a bridge. The question, as Orion put so delicately, is what will you DO with this high voltage output. What can you put it THROUGH (so that you recover some) that will "create" energy, and what do you put THAT energy INTO. You aren't really creating energy after all, you are pulling it IN from the environment. How do you collect it. How do you store it. How do you maintain a potential difference with voltage this high and not KILL yourself. This is definitely not a MOTOR, and it is definitely NOT your standard GENERATOR, so maybe this isn't the thread for this discussion.

    Also, I found out Bob had a two watt load across battery 3 as well as running a 10 watt bulb. He is still working to balance the system so that none of the batteries go down at all. I don’t have any lithium batteries to put a system together, but have some on order. Should be here in a couple days. I also ordered two of those boots modules and am trying to get a step down from 1,000V DC to 24V DC converter. Found one but had to email them to see how to buy it. Couldn’t just order it and pay for it. I have been working with 120 volts and am ready to move up a level.

    BFB44EE9-C25B-4591-807D-84EC7907DBE7.jpeg
    New test past 7wh now so my batteries are discharging now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    THIS SCHEMATIC IS DRAWN FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY. HIGH VOLTAGE DC CAN KILL YOU
    YOU DEFINITELY SHOULD NOT SEND HIGH VOLTAGE THROUGH A SMALL LOAD BACK TO THE CHARGE BATTERY.


    To go to the next level you need a high voltage source of DC, because you can’t recover AC, only DC. But you also need a buck so you don't hit your charge battery with too high a voltage. So you could run an inverter off a battery and put a bridge rectifier on it or use:

    https://www.amazon.com/DEVMO-45-390V...356343486&th=1

    You will get higher voltage out of the boost than you will an inverter and a bridge. The question, as Orion put so delicately, is what will you DO with this high voltage output. What can you put it THROUGH (so that you recover some) that will "create" energy, and what do you put THAT energy INTO. You aren't really creating energy after all, you are pulling it IN from the environment. How do you collect it. How do you store it. How do you maintain a potential difference with voltage this high and not KILL yourself. This is definitely not a MOTOR, and it is definitely NOT your standard GENERATOR, so maybe this isn't the thread for this discussion.

    Also, I found out Bob had a two watt load across battery 3 as well as running a 10 watt bulb. He is still working to balance the system so that none of the batteries go down at all. I don’t have any lithium batteries to put a system together, but have some on order. Should be here in a couple days. I also ordered two of those boots modules and am trying to get a step down from 1,000V DC to 24V DC converter. Found one but had to email them to see how to buy it. Couldn’t just order it and pay for it. I have been working with 120 volts and am ready to move up a level.

    BFB44EE9-C25B-4591-807D-84EC7907DBE7.jpeg
    Last edited by Turion; 08-03-2022, 10:48 PM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by OrionLightShip View Post


    Good Find Mikey! I read this same article researching the coil I needed to build. I forgot the number and thought it was .68 times radius.

    Any way, I find this whole forum to be still empty and somewhat angry and that is not me or certainly not who I want to be so I'm outa here again.


    Good Luck to all.

    Orion
    Thx Orion

    can you post a link to your youtube work? I enjoy your experiments

    Leave a comment:


  • OrionLightShip
    replied
    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post

    The resulting value of maximum inductance depends upon the wire length, but the ratio is independent of it. The ratio determined from Wheeler’s simple formula is exactly 0.9, that from his more complicated formula approximately 0.814. .[/SIZE][/I]

    Good Find Mikey! I read this same article researching the coil I needed to build. I forgot the number and thought it was .68 times radius.

    Any way, I find this whole forum to be still empty and somewhat angry and that is not me or certainly not who I want to be so I'm outa here again.


    Good Luck to all.

    Orion

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post


    If you truly HAD been following the thread you would know EXACTLY why I said a boost converter is a free energy device all by itself. LOL. Same old bi. Oblivious.
    BYE is out to lunch again.

    Read this BYE

    Wheeler’s simple formula predicts that maximum inductance results when the length of the coil is 0.9 times the radius.

    “You are given a fixed length of wire. You have to wind it into a coil having the largest possible inductance. Should you wind a short, fat coil, or a long, thin coil?”

    The answer was meant to be reasoned from the definition of inductance, which is proportional to the total linked flux within a coil. It goes like this:

    “The total linked flux in a coil is proportional to the product of the magnetic field in each turn, B, the area of one turn, A, and the number of turns, n, that is, proportional to BAn. “If the radius is doubled, the area A increases by a factor of 4, and the number of turns, n, decreases by a factor of 2, because our wire length is constant. Therefore the linked flux increases by a factor of 4/2 = 2. “Therefore we will get maximum inductance of we wind a short, fat, coil, where the loop area is as large as possible”. The fishhook in this question is that you are then tempted to reason like this: “Increasing the loop area has a greater effect on inductance than increasing the number of turns. Therefore, maximum inductance will be obtained for a single turn coil, which has the maximum loop area for a given length of wire.”


    Conclusions
    There is indeed a “magic value” of coil length to coil radius, which, for a given length of wire, results in maximum inductance. The resulting value of maximum inductance depends upon the wire length, but the ratio is independent of it. The ratio determined from Wheeler’s simple formula is exactly 0.9, that from his more complicated formula approximately 0.814. The maxima is broad. Historically, inductance was the last of the three fundamental electromagnetic circuit properties to be understood. It was not even called “inductance” until Oliver Heaviside coined the term in 1886, long after “resistance” and “capacitance” had been defined. It is also, for the reasons given above, much more difficult to calculate than the other two, and much more difficult to measure accurately7 , since magnetic field lines extend outside the coil, and hence interact with the environment.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 08-03-2022, 06:01 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    Originally posted by bistander View Post

    What????
    Trying to drag me into that stupid BS. No thanks. I've been watching. I try had not to interact with the OP of that thread. None of you three discussing that circuit have a clue. I certainly don't need to build it to know everything about it. So, carry on and have fun.
    bi

    BTW, what in the world would lead you to say a boost converter is OU? On second thought, nevermind.

    If you truly HAD been following the thread you would know EXACTLY why I said a boost converter is a free energy device all by itself. LOL. Same old bi. Oblivious.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Using batteries is ALWAYS going to be a problem. My goal has always been to move away from that. All you need is a difference in potential, whether that is a wire high in the sky and one on the ground to give you a potential difference, batteries, capacitors, static electricity, or whatever. Once you have a difference in potential, you have a movement of current. Once you have a movement of current, you have the source of free energy.

    You have seen what you can do with it by running it THROUGH the primary of a boost module and collecting it on the other side while producing MORE electricity out of the secondary.Put some in, get more out than you put in.

    But many MORE times the "input" can be generated using BETTER methods. This is the "pump" Bedini talked about. Put some energy in, and get a LOT out. This little setup is just the beginning. Once people understand that you CAN recover some of the input, and COMBINE it with SOME output, and that you can put MORE into the next stage, recover much of it and generate even MORE than in stage one. Step your way up to whatever you want almost INSTANTLY. This is not rocket science. It is very simple stuff. It has just been swept under the rug. But once it becomes mainstream, there are no limits. Some day they will be teaching this in school as the CORRECT way to use electricity. Ten years has been wasted because people here would not listen. But I have continued to work. Inductance, Capacitance, Resonance, High voltage and Potentials. We know all the things we need to know to be successful.

    What kind of coils should we be winding? How should we pulse them? What should the core material be, or should there be ANY? How do we put more in resonance/? How many coils CAN we put in resonance? What will these coils in resonance GIVE us? How do we build stages? How do we collect the power? Lots of questions. I have spent a lot of time figuring out answers, but these are some of the questions. Don Smith was under appreciated.
    https://www.qsl.net/zl1an/Downloads/...ce_Problem.pdf
    Last edited by Turion; 08-03-2022, 05:23 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Dave your word is as good as gold to me also. What you have stated about Bob's baseline battery tests is good enough for me.
    On the other hand in all the years of coming here I have not seen many showing these tests which are important to naysayers. Most of them are naysayers because of the half azzed so call reasoning they see here. I am sure you are right about the battery tests and feel bad that the naysayers remain uneducated.

    I will continue to do that job coming up again. My new batteries are not 2000ma, they are 7800 mah packs. 4 packs. I was forced to lower my draw to 100ma on these tiny packs so it will be nice to use the power right up to say 300ma or 400ma for now. That will be the best I can do at this time. When the charge battery started getting 250ma at the end of a cycle I thought of your balancing circuit.

    You gave me so many circuits I don't know where to start. This is unimportant to you because you have gone to the next level. Still I will keep trying to do a circuit people can power their back bedroom on, that is easy. The reason we have all of this knowledge is to make it into a practical application. If that never comes, it's all worthless.

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  • Turion
    replied
    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post

    Why does it irk you so bad for others to find a winning circuit you failed to see? Instead you should be rejoicing because all of your words have helped me and thousands of other to find their way.
    WHAT "winning circuit" I failed to see? I drew the circuit up in the first place. Just because you ran a load straight off the boost module secondary by accident? That is no different than running the load between the + output of the boost and the + of the charge battery, as I explained. And the way I drew it will work with any boost module that will run between the positives, while the way you wired it may not. We don't know until we try it on different boost modules. I happen to LIKE the way you did it because it is simpler (one less wire) but time will tell whether it will work on different boost modules or not. That is the trouble with this stuff. Everyone uses what the HAVE to try and replicate, rather than what the person doing the build used. Makes it interesting trying to replicate results. I may use a shovel and you use a spoon. Both will get the job done eventually, but I know which one I'd rather use, and when you compare results after an hour, there's really NO comparison.

    I congratulate you on getting it to work. It makes it harder for the naysayers. You have it working, I have had it working, and could build another one any time (WASTE OF MY TIME) Bob has it working. Wantomake has it working. It works. Always has. Maybe now bistander will build one and get it working. Wouldn't THAT be fun?

    Bob has done all the baseline testing of his batteries using the exact setup I suggested. He has also run his setup with meters in place and has all the results. I just don't have them. But it doesn't matter. I don't NEED them. I have worked with him for a long time and I am willing to take his word that he has it working. I don't NEED the proof that it works, because I already KNOW it works with lead acid batteries, so it should work with lithium. He is working on balancing the system so that none of the batteries go down. When he finally gets it balanced, which may take a bit, he will probably just show a video of running the loads for DAYS without the batteries going down, and how much power goes to the LOADS from the 7.5 amp hour batteries he is using.
    Last edited by Turion; 08-03-2022, 03:53 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Thanks wanto, I agree and your post are very gracious. Speaking of bad the 41 year old town cop got caught exploiting a minor and when the swat team showed up last evening at 6:35 to serve a warrant he locked himself in knowing he would spend the rest of his life in jail, came to his homes front door and blew his own brains out.

    Keep speaking the truth is what I say to everyone but most just feel sorry for him. It is good to hear about your packs keeping the lights on. We had a similar event in 2007 where a mile wide tornado wiped out everything just missing the house. The power was out 7 days. I had big batteries too.

    My unit should be winding down I would think but is still going. Yeah if we had a perfect design you could stay busy making them all emergency black boxes. Nothing wrong with that. Don't let what I say to Dave trouble you, he is a tough old bird.

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  • wantomake
    replied
    Thanks BroMikey,
    Yes I have used the stacks of 24 volt lithium ions to run the shop through the UPS as an inverter just as a test in case of an emergency. We had a tornado touch down just one mile from our house two years ago. No electricity for four days!! The path was 1/2 a mile wide. We didn't lose our refrigerator full of food because I had a small solar backup. We were only house with any lights at night. Yes my neighbors know I AM serious about alternative energy. That event proved it to them and my family. Preppers have offered to pay for any device that will to keep the electricity on in their homes. I did a 3 family teaching/meeting on different alternative energies, namely; solar, wind power, and even an HHO demo. They were most impressed by the 3BGS.

    No there's no secret helping from Turion other than things that are beyond what's being built here. Dave and I have been communicating since the days of the 3BGS builds. I also talk with Matthew from time to time. As a former teacher, I've learned how to be a good student. I bug the crap out of anyone that has knowledge to build something that may help my family or others. But. And I say this carefully, I do respect everyone here. And I'm nice even to those that have said negative things toward me.

    I like this forum and the giving hearts that post here. Be nice to people because things are bad now. This is what I speak to anyone I meet.

    I'm not telling you or anyone here on how to live or exist. People here will give more if you respect and get along peacefully with them.

    Didn't want to post all this but I did to be helpful and not accusing.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    Bob ran his setup from 1:00 yesterday until 5:30 this morning. The charge battery dropped .01 volts. Battery 1 dropped .07 volts and battery 2 dropped .13 volts. The light bulb was 10 watts and I still don’t know how many watts the load across battery 3 was. But constant load for 14 hours straight. He thinks the load across battery 3 was just a smidge too high. We have an idea for an adjustable load so it can be tuned better.
    I am sure you think this statement is meaningful but any batteries can do that. What Bob is leaving out is the number of WH possible with his batteries called a baseline. For instance if you have an analytical mine and proceed to use some sort of scientific method it would look like this post.

    Here is what we need.

    #1 What is the size of these batteries and rating/ how much can they deliver

    #2 Run a test straight off the single battery like I did and compare stats with real world figures. In my case with those puny batteries I have running them very hard (250ma extended) I got only 5WH, but the paper says 22WH at 40ma

    #3 using the same 10W load in the 3 battery generator give the resultant WATT HOUR count.

    No meter no proof, no nothing just flapping in the wind. You can do better than that Dave Thanks for the pat of the back for finding out li-ion batteries work good. Also stop lying on me. I never said the idea would not work across the board, I only said that the mod mtr with my lead batteries wouldn't work. And it never did. I followed your instructions to a tee. However I understand the frustration on your part teaching a subject with so many variables.

    Yes you are a super hero, you got stuff to work I never even heard of. Why does it irk you so bad for others to find a winning circuit you failed to see? Instead you should be rejoicing because all of your words have helped me and thousands of other to find their way.

    BTW this circuit is running all day now for 3 days and the voltages is 22.3v approx. and battery 3 keeps getting charged right up. I have three packs that give me a 200ma drain @5-5.5WH each and yet going on 30 WH have been consumed by the load. This is an impossibility. 2 five watt hour packs can not produce 30 WH by conventional means.

    I can post a link to that tiny boost converter if anyone is interested. If anyone want to replicated they will need 3 watt meters. Without the proper measuring tools you are guessing in the wind.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 08-03-2022, 12:59 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    Bob ran his setup from 1:00 yesterday until 5:30 this morning. The charge battery dropped .01 volts. Battery 1 dropped .07 volts and battery 2 dropped .13 volts. The light bulb was 10 watts and I still don’t know how many watts the load across battery 3 was. But constant load for 14 hours straight. He thinks the load across battery 3 was just a smidge too high. We have an idea for an adjustable load so it can be tuned better.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post

    That is all I ever get, don't forget your ball and bat. You been saying that for years, gonna quit, uncle and so forth.
    dont take out your inability to succeed on us. Now suddenly bobs got a winner? Bob has a zero force motor. Yeah.
    I guess you must be embarrassed
    My inability to succeed at what? Building a circuit I told YOU how to build? I had it working with lead acid batteries, where there is almost NO margin for error. Yes Bob slapped the circuit together with lithium batteries and it worked! He didn’t have to spend HOURS tuning it like with led acid! Very exciting for BOTH of us because lots of people, including YOU have said this doesn’t work just because YOU couldn’t get it to work. John never said this would work. As for as I know he never demonstrated a model of a system using 3 batteries other than the simple circuit designed to charge the batteries, not run loads. We’re just glad that using lithium batteries makes building it so simple even YOU can do it.

    The boost is a means of recovering energy while PRODUCING energy. If you want to call it a pump because you put some energy in and get energy out, go ahead, but it has been around for a long time before someone figured out how to run it like we are running it.

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