Motor Generators

[Turion]

Greyland’s boys checked in a bit ago with some results I didn’t much like hearing. They have a 12 magnet rotor. They have coils just like mine with 12 strands of #23 wire wound in parallel and 4 connected in series. Iron/steel core. They started at I don’t remember what voltage with their motor controller and tried to achieve speed up under load, but I DO remember it was at 1620 RPM, and kept turning it off, adjusting the voltage upwards a bit, turning it back on, letting it get up to speed, and then turning on the light. They worked all the way up to 3200 RPM and NO speed up under load. I don’t know if they are doing something wrong or if they simply need to continue to reduce input to get the RPM lower to achieve Speed up under load. Will be another week before they try again. 1620
is pretty low. Didn’t think it would need to go THAT low!!!!!!!!!

[BroMikey]

Just food for thought having to do with coils that generate power without slowing down the rotor. One time I built a 20 magnet rotor running at 3400 rpm. This design has noting to do with the black beauty box. What I am about to explain is my own coil and my testing data.

The coil has 24 strands and each strand made from 25awg magnet wire is 175ft long

The ohms are easy to find per strand.

At 3400rpm I connected a load up to strand #1 and the rotor would begin slowing down. For each increase on the load side the drive side power increased around the same amount or a little more on the drive side. This piece of wire is the exact length of wire and size awg found in a standard washing machine pump on one of the 2 sides. These pumps use horse shoe cores and each side has a 175ft coil on each of them.

These pump run around the same RPM and I wanted to see why this exact length was chosen. Not that any of that makes any difference to the experiment, just wanted to share why I used this length. So 24 coils of 175ft long gave me a 4200ft ball of wire.

Next I connected 2,3,4,5 strands of 175ft each in series and loaded these coils. I still have the machine. I don't dismantle my machines. I don't scavenger one machine to build another. Once I build one, that's it, I don't change it.

5 coils of 175ft = 875ft and the rotor still began slowing down when a load was placed across the 2 wires. Also you may be interested to know that my gap from magnet to core is 1/6" to get these results and a bigger gap gave much less.

Each 175ft coil gave an additional 20volts more each time added in series. Next I went to 6,7 and 8th strand connection
and each time I loaded the 6th,7th or 8th strand the rotor did not slow down and make the input power climb up. This is the NULL point.

So I continued up to 17 strands at 700-800vac and upon loading the light bulb under a hundred volts the rotor speed climbed wildly out of sight going from 3400 rpm to over 4000rpm and higher. The drive watts dropped by 40w at this time. The rpm was run away crazy scary. I like the NULL better, everything is stable. Just keep adding series connections to 1000 ft and put 3,4,5 of those in parallel.

[pmgriphone]

I have a coil wound with no core in it, but still need to strip ends and make connections. Does it matter if I just connect all 12 strands in parallel to take these measurements? That would be easiest, but either way, I will get those readings sometime today. It may be late as I am pulling up decking now and then my mom comes for dinner every Saturday. She and my wife spend the evening doing their “on line” grocery shopping for the week, so I will have time then.

Would actually be good to test both cases so you can see how things change.

So put them all in parallel and measure L, C and R without the core. Then later on measure them when they are in series.

You should measure 1/12 of the resistance, 1/144 of inductance and for capacitance, we will find out...

[Turion]

I have a coil wound with no core in it, but still need to strip ends and make connections. Does it matter if I just connect all 12 strands in parallel to take these measurements? That would be easiest, but either way, I will get those readings sometime today. It may be late as I am pulling up decking now and then my mom comes for dinner every Saturday. She and my wife spend the evening doing their “on line” grocery shopping for the week, so I will have time then.

[pmgriphone]

Ok Alex, thanks for clarifying that.

So then I estimate the total number of series windings for Dave's case at around 436, or about 36 (=436/12) windings per bundle of 12 strains.

This would approximate the effective relative permeability of the iron core to about 23, which seems a bit low if the core is iron. This is a value that I would more expect for a ferrite core.

For the inductance of an air coil (no iron), I would then estimate a value of about 6.4mH for the inductance.

Dave, would be good if you can verify that at some point in the future when you wind a coil without core.

[Quantum_well]

Super, thank you. I'm going to try and do some calculations.

[alexelectric]

Dave, can you clarify if you used 253ft total length (so about 21ft per strain), or if you used 253ft per strain (that would be a total of 12*253=3036ft of wire).

Per the resistance measurement, it should be the first case (21ft per strain), but Alex's message above where he says 256ft each strain, got me confused.

The one I built was 256 feet per line, 12 lines, on the spool I showed, Mr. Dave built it according to the data he sent us

[Turion]

Thanks Alex,
I recognized that data sheet the way it was set up and I have gone there several times in the last couple months giving a link to that page to others who were interested in buying bobbins from the same place I got mine so they would have the same ones. But somehow the bookmark disappeared. I had one for a different vender that does not carry what I want and I THOUGHT I deleted it, so it looks like I deleted the wrong one. I have too many bookmarks and late at night I have been weeding them out and putting them into folders so I can actually find them when I need them. Fat lot of good it does me if I delete the ones I meant to keep!

[pmgriphone]

Dave, can you clarify if you used 253ft total length (so about 21ft per strain), or if you used 253ft per strain (that would be a total of 12*253=3036ft of wire).

Per the resistance measurement, it should be the first case (21ft per strain), but Alex's message above where he says 256ft each strain, got me confused.

[alexelectric]

Alex, thank you for that, if you have time could you please say the diameter of a finished coil.

The diameter of the finished coil is 1 or 2 millimeters less than the diameter (F),
And it depends on the length you wind, in one I built it with 256 feet each thread, there were 12 threads

[alexelectric]

Alex,
where did you get that. I lost my bookmark to where I ordered them from and my friend who is building these machines needs to order more bobbins. I’m OuT! I bought a CASE last time, so that shows you how many coils I have wound for the various versions I have built.

Here is the data Mr. Dave

Injection Molded Plastic Spools and Reels | Nortic Inc.

http://www.norticinc.com/plastic-spool/

[Quantum_well]

Alex, thank you for that, if you have time could you please say the diameter of a finished coil.

[Turion]

Alex,
where did you get that. I lost my bookmark to where I ordered them from and my friend who is building these machines needs to order more bobbins. I’m OuT! I bought a CASE last time, so that shows you how many coils I have wound for the various versions I have built.

[alexelectric]

Imag.jpg Here are the spool measurements for the coil

[Quantum_well]

Is this something like?

IMG_20210403_151734~2.jpg