Magnet motor revelation

[MadMack]

@Madmack, In post #301 you stated :

" We are at the second step, developing the ramp for the attraction magnets, without the repelling set".

So I'll reinstall the repelling set and do the adjustments you advised.

Thanks for who help out here.
wantomake

My apologies, that was not at all clear. I was referring to a repelling ramp+stator magnet set. The opposing stator magnet always has to be there.

After 40 years of industrial design I know full well that if two interpretations can be made from written instructions, the one you didn't intend will be the one taken.

Regards,
Mack

[wantomake]

Taking advice always

Thanks Ufo, Bromikey, and Madmack

I always take creative criticism and sound advise.

From those post it's clear I will start from the beginning. I just ordered (2) 1/2 x1/2 x 1/2 for the rotor and (2) 1/2 x 1/2 x 1" for the stator.

The Youtube build is of on hand materials and just for experimental reasons. I don't spend resources unless there is reason to believe it works. Not being defensive, just want to be clear. But now I know what I don't know, which is the beginning of knowledge.

@Madmack, In post #301 you stated :

" We are at the second step, developing the ramp for the attraction magnets, without the repelling set".

So I'll reinstall the repelling set and do the adjustments you advised.

Thanks for who help out here.
wantomake

[MadMack]

Wantomake,

Nice work, but several things can be improved.

Where is the balancing stator magnet 180 degrees away? It absolutely will not work without it.

Look at the picture I posted. Your ramp fork is closer to the rotor than the stator magnets. Adjust your stator magnet closer to the rotor until the pole face of the magnet is slightly closer than the fork splits.
Your fork ends might be a little too long.
The rotor diameter is too small. Look at the arc of approach the rotor magnet makes to the ramp and compare to the picture I posted. That might not keep it from working but should be addressed in the future.

Try repositioning the stator magnet and ramp and add the balancing magnet before you do anything else.

This part is a guess, but maybe it will make a difference. Your thin magnets may have the N & S poles too close to each other. I used a 1/2” square x 1” long stator magnet with the poles on the square surfaces. Maybe you could stack a couple more to make a taller magnet? Something to keep in mind.


BroMikey,

At that price GRAB 'EM! N42s will work too. My little N52s had a lot less pull.

And are you positively sure the ramp touches the stator magnet?

Mack

Ha! Ufo posts several in the time it takes me to post once!

[Ufopolitics]

About the R/C Gas Engine comparison...

Hello to all,

I will share the way I can see/picture this Motor, and I can see it already going so fast...we will have a hard time stopping it, and to the point it could be very dangerous if we are not able to regulate-slow down or stop it...it can cut a finger getting in the way like butter...that simple.

Have you ever played with a small but very powerful gas engine from an R/C Toy?

If You have, you will know the pressure felt by spinning slowly by hand until it starts reaching the Compression stroke...Now, compare this side to our Repulsion Stage...

I start the balancing by this stage...Compression by Repulsion, and I get it as close as possible to be able to feel this same pressure of that small gas engine. This is going to be the FULL Power Pressure STROKE our Motor will have.

Attraction is stronger than repulsion...so is understood the attract stator will be a bit further away than the repulse one...and I do that by hand first to get the right positioning distance of attract stator related to rotor gap.

The Attraction stage plus the Ramp is the component that allows the compression stage to take place...In the Gas Engine it is the Counter Weight displacement, acceleration to make compression take place...and this is just one Cycle guys (of course, including the repulsion ramp)...represented by one Module which is based on Two Poles (Two Stators/Two Rotor Magnets)...the rest is to repeat this cycles along the 360š.

Now...letīs try to replicate that small gas engine from scratch, building each part...is it simple?!...of course it is NOT!!...and sounds more like a joke right?

And I am talking about just one cylinder small engine...But that Cylinder MUST BE perfectly balanced...the compression stroke must be equally balanced with the counter weight...and the timing for exhaust and fueling inlet valves also needs to be perfect.

Replicating a small R/C Gas Engine from scratch...starting to make that little aluminum block...plus all bearings fitting just perfect, plus stroke arms, compression rings and whoever is not familiar...plus other dozen of small dedicated parts...please go on line and search for all parts involved in this type of engine...and you will then realize what we are building here.

Mack built a rig to test his "Power Stroke"...on the Attraction Stator/Ramp:

Ufo,

http://www.energeticforum.com/280084-post217.html
YES! Almost 100%.

The 2 pole test rig, I refrain from calling it a motor, is to TEST with.

In my first testing I used a 1” x 4” x 12” wood rotor, ripped to 3” wide. After the magnets were balanced I hooked a spring to the rotor 3” from the shaft center. The other end was attached to a wood plate that pivoted on the shaft. I could hold the plate and slowly let the rotor be drawn across the ramp to the end and plot the spring deflection. That way I plotted the “power stroke” and knew when it occurred and the strength of it at increments along the ramp. That showed what worked and what didn't. Only after I had my “ideal” ramp could I determine the actual rotor diameter.

Mack

The way I see the attract stage and ramp...is that ramp will take away some of the attraction stator field power/strength by redirection to its iron mass, therefore taking some away from the "Equilibrium Line" across at 180š... this will create an unbalance with repulsion stage which does not have a ramp so far, then becoming the strongest and Full Force in the set..so, when we have the right set up...in my opinion we should be able to observe a great take off spinning force between just one Module...not saying it will continue or repeat...but it must be a very strong spin force...and it should be measured with the spring rig as Mack stated in his cited post above.



Regards and good luck.


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Catching errors will give us the motor...

To All,
This is link to video of the second step. Not great but learning from this build.
Skyflight1able is my YouTube name.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWGsfL3tm2M

wantomake

Hello my friend Wantomake,

First, many thanks for uploading your video here!...THIS IS THE ONLY WAY we all be able to start correcting mistakes, then learn the proper way.

Now, please, may I say what I find wrong there?...and please, take it as constructive criticism for you to be able to achieve the goal here.

First, related to the magnets:

Those magnets are not good...

First because they are ceramics...which is not powerful enough, plus their density is very low.

Second because they are magnetized through the Thinner Wall, that causes its magnetic field length to be too short.

We already have the Basic Structure from Mac's posts plus his latest graphic.

Rotor: Cube Magnets
Stator: Rectangle Magnets of the same face (magnetized through their longer wall)

Now, related to the Ramp...

Your Ramp is not good either...

First it is way too thin, so its induction capability to store the magnetic field is very low.

Second the Ramp must be within the END pole of rectangle magnet, Not in front, not by the middle or Domain Wall...and this is why the Stator is a Rectangle...a Cube will not do it because poles are too close and too short.

Third: Use the same ratio of Fork Distance...yours is too short

@Mikey: Your Fork is also too short.


Look at Mack's drawing...:

[IMG][/IMG]

Then let's look at a closer analysis:

[IMG][/IMG]

We can "literally" insert a second magnet between the fork start and the wall of stator magnet, like I have done above...

This is the real "Ramp Part" where rotor magnet "takes off" (impulse) towards attraction stage in order to pass the sticky point.

If it is too short...simply it will NOT make it passed that point.

I can perfectly see where Mack is driving us to achieve...

1- Learn how to balance both poles to zero, total cancellation of forces (when I say "pole" I refer to one stator and one rotor magnet....that is a Pole, One Pole...we must balance Two Poles).

We must use the closest gap possible...and the way I am doing it is by getting the repulsion first as close as I could, with a very, very narrow gap. Then start playing with just the attract side until I see they are cancelling out perfectly.

And here is simple...if you guys do not have a perfect balance obtained...it is a complete waste to "JUMP" and start building and testing the Attraction Ramp.


The "Formula" related to the kind of Magnets has been revealed by now:

Rotor: 1/2X1/2X1/2 Inches
Stator:1/2X1/2X1 Inches

That is the Ratio to use here...and any other shape, type or else is NOT supposed to be a Real Replication, therefore it will simply do NOT work.

Cylinder Magnets are NOT GOOD!

I am just writing about all this because it is very frustrating not to see anything out of the ordinary...or not observe any good results...or say they still balance etc,etc.

Plus...I want You ALL of You, Guys to make this happen...come to reality and close this chapter.


Regards Friend, and good to see you are working on this!


Ufopolitics

[BroMikey]

Hey Mack

I am wondering why the neo's are not marked for polarity and

I was afraid to buy these for fear they would not be optimal.

Do you think cubes or rectangles? a long magnet?

I like these. Maybe I will beat this price somewhere else.

Maybe N42 are to weak I know you said N52.

These are $10 a piece and the N52 is $12.50 each.

103 lb pull and 140 lb pull respectively.

Also what is a good professional structural grade material

for building a real motor? Acrylic warps like garbage, I have 1"

and that stuff is all over the place. I am also set up to pour

composites that are high temp used in aircraft structures.

Then I cure them in a special large oven. Last time I did a 1.1"

sheet of low temp borosilicate glass that was hand done regrind.

I also work with microspheres and high grade fibers. Carbon

fiber is out as it conducts.

4 Pieces 1" inch RARE Earth Neodymium Cube Magnet | eBay

[BroMikey]

To All,
This is link to video of the second step. Not great but learning from this build.
Skyflight1able is my YouTube name.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWGsfL3tm2M

wantomake

Thanks 4 your Video, this is the right way. Look at my picture.

You MUST connect the ramp to the magnet. Mack stated that he

could not show the connection from ramp to stator magnet more

so because it may have been an improved design in the patent

but it is connected to the south pole top and bottom.

Think about it. The purpose of the ramp is to redirect energy from

the stator magnet in the form of attraction. To get the ramp into

the attraction mode, you must have it touch the south pole.

The purpose of the "Y" is to break up the fields so 2 attraction

events take place separately. First the ramp then the "Y" space

releases THAT attraction event smoothly and not pulled back, then

the second attraction event takes place. A two for one if you will?

Two events for the price of one stator magnet.

I can hardly wait to see the repulsion designs.

Keep up the good work. Your "Y" fork is like mine. However

the laminates need to go the other way when you get time.

This will do for now til metal becomes magetic from being next to

a powerful magnet all of the time. Your ramp is to far away from the

south pole of your stator magnet to induce a southern attraction force

of any real consequence into the ramp.

Look at the second diagram here, this is the original, right form the

man.

[wantomake]

link

To All,
This is link to video of the second step. Not great but learning from this build.
Skyflight1able is my YouTube name.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWGsfL3tm2M

wantomake

[lorinrandone]

Hi to all
If you think youtube is filled with garbage, it's a mistake, because after seeing the videos of Mack, there is the option to remove these videos from your channel.
Ufo, have intuited the intention that I have.So you can fast forward learning and building individual construction.
Care. I have big problems with the strength of each magnet. I have 8 new rotor poles and four of them are different. Never, they will balance, including, if they are not the same or similar power. The rotor must turn uniformly without hitting at any time
Needless to back the strike of magnets, which has been tackled at the beginning of this thread
Regards

[BroMikey]

It'll still find balance.
artv

Maybe a video will help your english

Please post a balance video?

Mach just got through saying this is only step 2. Your english, no good.

Sorry your english no good, sorry.

Okay me say again. Mack say step one, step 2, step 3 step 4, step............

Understand? Mack say step one is first.

Okay start over.

MACK SAYS THIS.

Step 1 = use 4 magnets and balance machine

Step 2 = Make "Y" attraction RAMP

Step 3 = Unknown

Step 4 = Unknown

Step 5= Unknown

Step 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 = "cell" = NOT A MOTOR YET.

Understand? We are on step 2.

[BroMikey]

I have been extremely busy for a while now. I haven't had time to do a CAD drawing, I only had time to do a quick hand sketch to show the two ramp butterfly system. Everything needs to be equal strength magnets and ramps need to be fully adjustable to get everything in balance. Good luck. stealth

Stealth

I can not tell what is a rotor magnet from a stator. Please specify which is

what or are these all ramps? This has not helped me.

You can do better than that.

[Stealth]

I have been extremely busy for a while now. I haven't had time to do a CAD drawing, I only had time to do a quick hand sketch to show the two ramp butterfly system. Everything needs to be equal strength magnets and ramps need to be fully adjustable to get everything in balance. Good luck. stealth

[Ufopolitics]

About this process...

Hello to all,

I believe the best thing to do here and keep learning as we go...is the way that took place above between Mack and Cristian...
We learn from his last post correcting all errors from the video right?

HOWEVER, if we do not show a video with whatever is going wrong...then everything will be a "Guessing Game" from both ends...Mac's end, which we ALL know can not disclose full plans...and Us replicating this motor.

BFor example...if we all do like Shylo...write down barely explaining about our set up...then we are into what I said before.

Mack does not have a Cristal ball to see our set up...then correct whatever is wrong guys.

So, from a video there is not much talk...just Mack can see then correct us about it.


Is just my opinion...and I am working on a smaller scale model...I will show it soon so I can see if am right or wrong.

Otherwise...the way we are going here so far, except for Cristian...we will stay there for a while.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[shylo]

It'll still find balance.
artv

[BroMikey]

BroMikey,

Your enthusiasm is admirable but think about the magnetic flux involved between the rotor magnet, ramp, and stator magnet. Picture the flow of the flux in all directions as the rotor magnet passes along the ramp, it always takes the path of least resistance. We want the rotor flux to transition between straight attraction to the ramp, then angle off to both sides smoothly while providing the least amount of back pull. As the rotor magnet gets closer to the stator magnet the flux will transition to an attraction mostly between the magnets and this is where the ends of the ramp need to lose their influence on the rotor magnet.

If you are using transformer laminations then stack them side by side so their widest part will be seen in the side view, and the top view will be their thickness. Eddy currents.
You can work out their shape with cereal box cardboard before cutting any metal.

Mack

Thanks Mack for your kindness. Here is my work for the day so far. Going
off to work.

@Randy, Thanks for reminding me.

Wow! When trying to balance multiple magnets, you quickly find out how unequal, equal magnets really are. When I designed my rotor magnet mounts I didn't allow for adding material to the back of the magnet (for magnetic equalizing). Don't make the same mistake I did. You will need to "tune" your magnets. When the magnets are balanced, the rotor spins freely as if the magnets are not even there. Even at slow speeds. Add another 4 magnets and . This balancing is , but maybe I'm just obsessing.

Good Luck,

Randy