Magnet motor revelation

[Turion]

It is NOT.
He already said there are a minimum of six magnets on his rotor.
He already said the ramps are between the magnets on the stator. (only two on the simple device)
He already said the magnets are not in a straight line with the rotor center.
He already said the ramp pivots in the middle to be able to change the speed of rotation, in other words adjustable.
He already said there are magnets on the ramp like in the Bedini picture I posted but only the repelling magnet is shunted (in other words, iron between it and the rotor.

The drawing violates all of these statements and/or is missing parts.

We have to start somewhere though. And that is as good a place as any!

Dave

[T-1000]

Well, you must have magnetic attraction so where does it come from? It comes from iron ramps between the stator magnets. You have all seen Bedinis picture that shows the 4 magnets on the rotor and a repelling magnet at the end of a curved ramp on the stator. There is the basic concept in all its simplicity. What isn't shown is an opposing ramp with it's attracting magnets for balance. Other than that, the principles are all there including a useful magnetic shunt on the stator magnet. See? It's not even my idea, I just applied symmetry to it. The only tricky part is maintaining the magnetic symmetry at the end of the ramps next to the magnets.

Hi MadMack,

Do you have any proof of concept experiment to share for showing how one way net magnetic force is manifesting for the rotor movement which does not have "sticky point" problem?
It does not need to be under NDA and can be very different build just preserving same concept. So the builders could try to replicate at least that and see effect for themselves.

Cheers!

[BroMikey]

It is NOT.
He already said there are a minimum of six magnets on his rotor.
He already said the ramps are between the magnets on the stator. (only two on the simple device)
He already said the magnets are not in a straight line with the rotor center.
He already said the ramp pivots in the middle to be able to change the speed of rotation, in other words adjustable.
He already said there are magnets on the ramp like in the Bedini picture I posted but they are not shunted (in other words, no iron between them and the rotor.

The drawing violates all of these statements and/or is missing parts.

We have to start somewhere though. And that is as good a place as any!

Dave

Hi Dave thanks

I needed that pointer. I don't have the aptitude yet with these

one lines here and one line there to collect it all up and put it into

a complete profile. Glad to see you have got it. I love it.


This is one of those many ideas that I am really trying to grasp and

was getting sea sick trying to get the action figured. I am thank full

for anyone's offering on this matter because it spurs the next guy to

spell this out a little more clearly each time.

Thinking

Good description details.


@everyone

Any takers on making a drawing based on these facts???

[MadMack]

Hi guys,

Sorry I couldn't get back before now. Dave, Turion, seems to have the best grasp of this so far. Chet, the ramps in the concept picture you posted have two problems. They are way too long so the rate of change is very little, which kills the torque. The second problem, which we haven't touched upon yet, is that each ramp in that picture connects two stator magnets. You have to take magnetic induction in the ramps into account. Having a stator magnet touching at each end of the ramp turns the ramp into a bar magnet with strong NS poles, and interferes with things. We want the ramp close to or touching only one magnet at the end of the ramp like the Bedini drawing. Remember that the flux always takes the path of least resistance, so as a rotor magnet passes a stator magnet you need a space before the beginning of the next ramp. The distance of this space varies with magnet strengths but a rule of thumb is a minimum of 1.5 to 2 times the gap between the rotor magnet and the ramp, at its widest point. In my 8 pole motor, with magnets every 45 degrees, the ramp length was about 30 degrees. Yours may be a little different.

Magnet shunts. Dave, I believe I said you do not want to shunt the attracting magnets the way the Bedini picture shows. Remember how I said that as a rotor magnet is accelerating towards an attracting magnet, the repelling magnets at the opposite side were neutralizing the pull of the attracting magnet? A shunt on the repelling stator magnet similar to the Bedini drawing will kill some of this neutralization and add to the torque. You only need the neutralizing action of the repelling magnets after they pass their center lines. Any neutralizing affect you can eliminate before that point is beneficial. Likewise reducing back drag attraction on the attracting set, with a shunt on the other side of this magnet from its ramp, can also benefit. I can not provide details on the shape of the shunts or any spacings they may have. Look at the Bedini picture for ideas. Too big of a shunt will make things worse.

Guys, the 2 pole rig is not a good motor. Think of it as 2 poles of an 8 pole motor. It's best used to figure out how to balance the forces and develop the ramp design and shunts. Use short ramps like you would have on an 8 pole motor. What you want to shoot for is the most acceleration along the ramp and past the stator poles. It's much easier to see and measure the results with 2 poles. When you have the best results you can get, then add and tune two more poles at a time until it's a complete motor. When the second set of poles are added you may end up tweaking the ramp length to get the optimum spacing.

Mario, the rotation of my magnets was not 45 degrees. The exact angle depends on the rake of the ramp so you may want to try between 30 and 45 degrees.

One more point tonight. My motors were not complete self starters. They had dead spots. They needed a start just like a gas engine and a small flywheel also helped.

T-1000, I did the concept builds more than a year ago and those are long gone. My NDA prohibits making public any images or demonstrations related to the design anyway and I will not risk that. I'm skating on the edge as it is.

Mack

[BroMikey]

Hi guys,

Sorry I couldn't get back before now. Dave, Turion, seems to have the best grasp of this so far. Chet, the ramps in the concept picture you posted have two problems. They are way too long so the rate of change is very little, which kills the torque. The second problem, which we haven't touched upon yet, is that each ramp in that picture connects two stator magnets. You have to take magnetic induction in the ramps into account. Having a stator magnet touching at each end of the ramp turns the ramp into a bar magnet with strong NS poles, and interferes with things. We want the ramp close to or touching only one magnet at the end of the ramp like the Bedini drawing. Remember that the flux always takes the path of least resistance, so as a rotor magnet passes a stator magnet you need a space before the beginning of the next ramp. The distance of this space varies with magnet strengths but a rule of thumb is a minimum of 1.5 to 2 times the gap between the rotor magnet and the ramp, at its widest point. In my 8 pole motor, with magnets every 45 degrees, the ramp length was about 30 degrees. Yours may be a little different.

Magnet shunts.

Remember how I said that as a rotor magnet is accelerating towards an attracting magnet, the repelling magnets at the opposite side were neutralizing the pull of the attracting magnet?

A shunt on the repelling stator magnet similar to the Bedini drawing will kill some of this neutralization and add to the torque.

Too big of a shunt will make things worse.

Guys, the 2 pole rig is not a good motor. Think of it as 2 poles of an 8 pole motor.

When the second set of poles are added you may end up tweaking the ramp length to get the optimum spacing.

The exact angle depends on the rake of the ramp so you may want to try between 30 and 45 degrees.

One more point tonight. My motors were not complete self starters. They had dead spots. They needed a start just like a gas engine and a small flywheel also helped.

My NDA prohibits making public any images or demonstrations related to the design anyway and I will not risk that. I'm skating on the edge as it is.

Mack

Ramps, rakes and shunts?

Thanks Mack for going out on a limb. I am frantically looking

everywhere around the web for these terms so I don't lose focus.

Ramps, Rakes and shunts, right.

Here is a blurry video but that old boy "Zero" does show an idea

I must have missed. It looks like a counter balanced weight like

you would find on an oil pumping rig for oil wells.

I made a note of the fact that you didn't think the colorful

diagram was doing your idea justice.

Who knows maybe the same guys who whipped up that drawing

will fix it right? Just having a little fun with them.

Actually I think if we got the picture right you might not feel

good about it.

What a world we live in. You are a big help Mack and thanks again.

I wasn't thinking of the swivels like the video, I was thinking side to

side swiveling instead. "Zero" is pivoting up and down.

This keep s me thinking


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAtEJj_ZSfs[/VIDEO]

[Turion]

As a rotor magnet passes a stator magnet you need a space before the beginning of the next ramp. The distance of this space varies with magnet strengths but a rule of thumb is a minimum of 1.5 to 2 times the gap between the rotor magnet and the ramp, at its widest point. In my 8 pole motor, with magnets every 45 degrees, the ramp length was about 30 degrees. Yours may be a little different.

A shunt on the repelling stator magnet similar to the Bedini drawing will kill some of this neutralization and add to the torque. You only need the neutralizing action of the repelling magnets after they pass their center lines. Any neutralizing affect you can eliminate before that point is beneficial. Likewise reducing back drag attraction on the attracting set, with a shunt on the other side of this magnet from its ramp, can also benefit. Too big of a shunt will make things worse.

Use short ramps like you would have on an 8 pole motor. What you want to shoot for is the most acceleration along the ramp and past the stator poles. It's much easier to see and measure the results with 2 poles. When you have the best results you can get, then add and tune two more poles at a time until it's a complete motor. When the second set of poles are added you may end up tweaking the ramp length to get the optimum spacing.

The rotation of my magnets was not 45 degrees. The exact angle depends on the rake of the ramp so you may want to try between 30 and 45 degrees.


Mack

My drawing is missing the magnets on the ramps and the shunts. I also couldn't figure out how to curve the ramps. I believe the rest of the parts are in place. Angles, sizes, relationships are all the things that need to be figured out. Anyway, here is MY drawing. I am learning to use this program and this drawing took me FAR too long. I don't have that kind of time to spend right now, but someone who is good at this can take a look and draw their own, making the necessary changes.

I gave it my best effort guys, and it reflects everything I have learned from what has been given us, EXCEPT those things I have mentioned and the things I quoted here.

Dave

[BroMikey]

Hi Dave

What part swivels? Is there suppose to be a fulcrum point in the

center of those long arms? Obviously the blocks represent the magnets.

Mack did say something pivoted in the center?

I am still tapping my toe over here wondering what toggles back and forth.

[Turion]

Yes, the ramps, which should be curved (and I showed as just long rectangles) should pivot in the middle so that you can adjust how close the "close" end comes to the magnets. There should also be a magnet on the "close end" and every other one should have a "shunt" on it which partially blocks the magnet on the ramp from the magnet on the rotor.

[Mario]

Dave, I believe the stator magnets are rotated also by 30-45 degrees.

Mario

[T-1000]

Hi guys,
T-1000, I did the concept builds more than a year ago and those are long gone. My NDA prohibits making public any images or demonstrations related to the design anyway and I will not risk that. I'm skating on the edge as it is.

Mack

Understood, hopefuly your NDA does not prohibit teaching someone else to make same build then. It is way much harder to share than in direct way but still.. you can try to pickup any builder here and as prototype build will go you can point into right directions until desired build is finished...

Cheers!

[Turion]

Stator magnets

You may be right. I looked at two stator magnets that are directly across from each other and if I rotate them 45 degrees, it just didn't look right to me. But hopefully we'll get a little more direction as we go. And hopefully someone who is better with a CAD program can take over!!!

[MadMack]

Dave,
You're getting there. I really hope you will start with the 2 pole before building anything bigger. Don't overly concern yourself with the shunts until you have at least a 2 pole setup to experiment with. Then you can easily see how placing a shunt on one side or the other affects things. Don't worry about the pivot in the center of the ramps until later.

Everyone, I have revealed all the information I am comfortable with. You can verify the concepts yourself with 4 magnets, some transformer iron, an axle, 2 bearings, miscellaneous hardware, some wood, and some effort. The main ingredient is careful attention to detail and keeping in mind how the 2 opposite poles work together. Don't overlook the magnetic induction effects in the ramps caused by the magnets on the stator and rotor. Balance the magnetic forces first, then experiment with ramps, then shunts. BTW when you add the ramps you will likely see the balance gets altered and some adjustments will be needed. If you don't quite understand what I have written about so far, I'm sure it will become more clear as you experiment.

Ha, I just looked at the thread at overunity research and I see someone is up to their usual, which should be expected I guess. Everything I have presented here is prior art. What others believe or insinuate about me or my work is of no consequence.

I wish you all success
Mack

[boguslaw]

A pure magnet motor with ratched propeller is know at least for 100 years
just to let you know

[Grumage]

Simple drawing of two pole arrangement.

Dave,
You're getting there. I really hope you will start with the 2 pole before building anything bigger. Don't overly concern yourself with the shunts until you have at least a 2 pole setup to experiment with. Then you can easily see how placing a shunt on one side or the other affects things. Don't worry about the pivot in the center of the ramps until later.

Everyone, I have revealed all the information I am comfortable with. You can verify the concepts yourself with 4 magnets, some transformer iron, an axle, 2 bearings, miscellaneous hardware, some wood, and some effort. The main ingredient is careful attention to detail and keeping in mind how the 2 opposite poles work together. Don't overlook the magnetic induction effects in the ramps caused by the magnets on the stator and rotor. Balance the magnetic forces first, then experiment with ramps, then shunts. BTW when you add the ramps you will likely see the balance gets altered and some adjustments will be needed. If you don't quite understand what I have written about so far, I'm sure it will become more clear as you experiment.

Ha, I just looked at the thread at overunity research and I see someone is up to their usual, which should be expected I guess. Everything I have presented here is prior art. What others believe or insinuate about me or my work is of no consequence.

I wish you all success
Mack

Dear MadMack.

I have attached a simple drawing of your suggested two pole arrangement, it is shown without the obviously needed ramps/shunts.

Is this where we should start ?

Cheers Grum.

[BroMikey]

Dave,
You're getting there. I really hope you will start with the 2 pole

Ha, I just looked at the thread at overunity research and I see someone is up to their usual, which should be expected I guess.

Yeah well don't worry Mack we don't tolerate duldrum attitudes
and people who attack out prize members.

I won't stand for it, if people want their boring disbelief they may have

it over there or wherever, just don't attack me and my friends and

everything'll be just fine


No brag just fact.

Thanks so very much Mack for stirring us up in the right direction, I

see grumage is already on the case. Great work man.


The facts you have suggested will take time to assimilate.

Don't touch that dial. I enjoy high spirits, it is where the power of

creating new things rests.