Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Magnet motor revelation

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • BroMikey
    replied
    Hello everyone Yours Truly here

    I have been doing a small drawing and I can add as it

    all sinks in to my grey matter. Please everyone feel free

    to help me get this right.

    What we were told that needed to be done first is to start

    with 4 magnets or 2 poles, one attracting and the other repelling

    and try to make the necessary adjustments so little or no cogging

    is present as the rotor spins.


    Last edited by BroMikey; 09-01-2015, 05:59 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • tachyoncatcher
    replied
    Thanks Mack

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Thanks Madmack,
    Downloaded the book, and the imagery helped to understand your post even more. Some more studying with notes. Did build small version(2) pole to test a little and try to understand with hands on class room learning.

    @ Ufo, thanks for the cad picture. Hope this is first of many from your professional mind.

    wantomake
    Sorry UFO,
    The CAD is incorrect. Its a nice copy of the Bedini diagram, but that's not what we have here.
    wantomake: Mack's last post is key to understanding the basic principles so go strictly by that. The ramps need to be in a L or V shape with the center of the ramp being the bend point away from the rotor. This way the only part of the ramp that is exposed to the spinning rotor is the North side, the South side bends away. The ramp is a induced magnet in itself. So, while the south side of the "ramp magnet" is touching the ramp, the North side of the ramp is touching the magnet. You make the ramp long enough to bend away the south half of the ramp. We are exposing the rotor to a single pole, induced magnet by bending the other pole away from the rotor. He he!

    Randy
    Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 08-31-2015, 07:18 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    book and imagery

    Thanks Madmack,
    Downloaded the book, and the imagery helped to understand your post even more. Some more studying with notes. Did build small version(2) pole to test a little and try to understand with hands on class room learning.

    @ Ufo, thanks for the cad picture. Hope this is first of many from your professional mind.

    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • boguslaw
    replied
    The secret of all magnetic mtors are additional freedom of movement. It can be a device wit mechanical switching to eliminate sticky points or a combined usage of gravity and magnetism or the contruction of device with not only one freely moving rotors but two or three. All in all it is the freedom which moves everything.Don't be angry.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Gotter Mack thanks a million

    a 238pg book from the 1800's, I am reading the book right now.

    http://magneticuniverse.com/uploads/...0b124dec1d.pdf
    Last edited by BroMikey; 08-29-2015, 10:30 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • MadMack
    replied
    Hello again,

    Wow, several posts since I left. Regretfully, I don't have time to respond to them right now though.

    I promised you some background information, so here we go. This applies AFTER you have balanced the forces in the 2 pole to very little or no cogging and you haven't attached any ramps.

    There is a book written about 170 years ago that you should have. Davis' Manual of Magnetism. You can get a free pdf from Google books, just search Google for the title.

    There is a section on Induction of Magnetism, it starts around page 61. Read section 1, By the Influence of a Magnet, even though you already know all of this stuff.

    Sure this is basic magnetism 101, but the basics are jealous and spiteful things and if they are not given their due attention they will happily kill the motor just because they can.

    Page 66, fig. 44. That is essentially a rotor magnet and an acceleration ramp. The vertical bar magnet is the rotor magnet and the horizontal iron bar is the ramp. See the magnetic poles induced into the ramp by the rotor magnet? There are 3 north poles. Obviously the north poles at both ends of the ramp, which are created by the rotor magnet, will try to keep the north pole rotor magnet from moving past the middle. We can add some rake by angling the ramp but that will only alter the balance point a little and the rotor magnet will still try to remain over the ramp at the balanced point. Result: a non working motor.

    So we fix this by putting a south pole stator magnet under the left side of the iron bar in fig. 44. If the stator magnet is not over the ramp, the ramp will have a south pole on the left and a north pole on the right. Now there is a strong south pole that will pull a north pole rotor magnet toward it, right to left across the ramp. The closer the rotor magnet gets to the stator magnet the stronger the pull. Right?
    Yes, but what is going on now at the right end of the ramp? There is a north pole at the end of it right? So that should push against the rotor magnet and help things even more. Right?
    Well, no. What is happening now is the rotor magnet is inducing a south pole into the ramp at the right end which will try to pull the rotor backwards. We just can't win it seems. Even though the rotor will now pull toward the south stator magnet at the left, that pull is being robbed of its strength by the affects of magnetic induction in the ramp, the induced south pole at the right. The degree of loss drops as distance between the rotor magnet and south pole stator magnet decreases, and distance between the rotor magnet and the south pole at the right end of the ramp increases.

    So, what could be done to reduce this unwanted loss? The induction can't be done away with. We are restricted to the single rotor and stator magnet for magnetic sources, and we have the ramp itself. No other magnets or mechanical mechanisms are available. The acceleration ramp will eventually have another magnet a little ways past the right end of it and we don't want to get to close to that with the ramp, so what is left to do that will reduce the loss?

    The answer should be easy if you understand what is going on here. The ramp does not have to be a straight piece of iron. We could add some length to the right end of the ramp and bend this extra length down and away from the rotor. This would place the induced south pole farther away from the rotor magnet and reduce it's affect.

    That's all for now. I wanted to write more but I'm out of time.

    The point of this post was to illustrate why you need to dissect the motor into its smallest components, understand what is happening during operation and take every action and reaction into account. It's the small things make the difference.

    Just so you know, it may be a couple of weeks before I return, life circumstances being what they are.

    Mack

    Leave a comment:


  • Grumage
    replied
    Originally posted by MadMack View Post
    Grumage,

    Yes, that is essentially the 2 pole arrangement. However, as a baseline to start with I would suggest less angle on the rotor magnets, say 30 degrees or so, and point the center line of the stator magnets straight to the center of the axle like Dave's drawing.
    To save some time and effort later, when you set up this test rig you should put the stator magnets in a mounting block that can be repositioned as needed. You will want to try different angles and rotor clearances with these.

    You don't really need a round rotor for this rig you know. A flat board that will accept the two rotor magnets will suffice and it's easier to build and balance. Your choice of course.


    Mack

    P.S. I have some free time today and I would like to write up some background information for this motor. I'll be back to later post it and I hope all of you will find it interesting.
    Dear MadMack.

    Many thanks for your reply.

    Ah, the drawing, done very quickly in " Paint " so yes there are a few discrepancies but you were able to get the gist of what I was trying to establish. And thanks for the alignment tip's.

    IMO your design probably makes use of the " Gary Effect " especially in the " Ramp " area. I spent a good two months last winter trying to build a replica. I found out that my scale was just a wee bit too small. Off topic, I know, but here are a couple of videos on that device.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACykTfXspfM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA8RmmvrvH8

    It did, however teach me a lot !! This knowledge gained, might just help.

    Cheers Grum.

    Leave a comment:


  • sprocket
    replied
    Nice drawing UFO, but you've got an all-repulsion setup there, which is not what MadMack described.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mario
    replied
    Ufo, nice drawing, but there are big differences from what Madmack described. Read his post nr.36.

    Mario

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post

    [IMG][/IMG]



    Hi UFO

    Hold that thought. Can you change a few things when we need it done?

    The reason I say that is I can't tell any difference, these two are the

    same. If they are not the same please point out where.

    The cad picture is a very nicely done diagram.

    Thanks UFO, for making yourself available, great abilities.

    @everyone

    I know what a ramp is but what is a rake?
    Last edited by BroMikey; 08-29-2015, 07:22 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    My Two Cents...

    Thanks MadMack for your explanation and desire to disclose all this info.


    Below is my interpretation about this concept...some new ideas and some minor changes which are slightly different from Bedini prior concept:


    [IMG][/IMG]

    The Ramp building - I believe should be made like this, from less iron mass to more as it increases attraction...I added a magnetic blocking mat to generate a more radical change over time at transition stage...As return spring (not shown on CAD) should be balanced as well to the magnetic forces.

    Another add to Ramp in this drawing is not to grab-contact iron to both poles (like Bedini's design) but only to South (in this case)...as it entire mass would become "an extension" of that South Pole.


    I see there is a lot of possible adjustments in order to create the perfect balance for a continuous (perpetual) rotation...I just cited a few on drawing.


    Thanks


    Ufopolitics


    EDIT 1:

    Mad Mack, I saw your last post as I was uploading this...so I will rectify Stators Center Line to point at Rotor Center...makes sense!
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 08-29-2015, 06:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • MadMack
    replied
    Grumage,

    Yes, that is essentially the 2 pole arrangement. However, as a baseline to start with I would suggest less angle on the rotor magnets, say 30 degrees or so, and point the center line of the stator magnets straight to the center of the axle like Dave's drawing.
    To save some time and effort later, when you set up this test rig you should put the stator magnets in a mounting block that can be repositioned as needed. You will want to try different angles and rotor clearances with these.

    You don't really need a round rotor for this rig you know. A flat board that will accept the two rotor magnets will suffice and it's easier to build and balance. Your choice of course.

    Shylo,

    To be precise, one set of magnets pulling and another set pushing in the opposite direction. Balance is the basis of this, it is the essential starting point. We will not be offsetting in a flip flop manner to achieve rotation.

    Mack

    P.S. I have some free time today and I would like to write up some background information for this motor. I'll be back to later post it and I hope all of you will find it interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • shylo
    replied
    magnetic attraction

    Hi Mac, I've spent many hours with mag ramps , that's basically what this is right?
    You start with a stationary field that is equal in repulsion? (Pushing equally in both directions correct?)
    So you must offset that balance , then offset it again in the opposite direction (or polarity)?
    I tried spring loaded levers so as the approaching magnet drew the lever towards it , it stretched the spring , but once the magnet hit dead centre, the spring re-coiled and pushed an opposite pole magnet (attached to the other end of the lever) to push away the now exiting magnet.
    It still found balance.
    Trying to picture in my mind what your saying ,but all I can see is balance.
    I hope your right and I'm wrong, but I just can't picture it.
    artv

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    MadMack,

    Thank you for patiently answering questions and for pointing us in the right direction. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

    Before you depart, I hope you will chime in on the issue of orientation of the stator magnets. Are they aligned through the center of the rotor as I showed in my drawing or rotated as Grumage depicted? The answer to that will save us considerable time even if the degree of rotation is different.


    And I will DEFINITELY start with two rotor magnets and stator magnets and get those balanced before I even THINK about adding ramps or more magnets.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by MadMack View Post
    Dave,
    You're getting there. I really hope you will start with the 2 pole

    Ha, I just looked at the thread at overunity research and I see someone is up to their usual, which should be expected I guess.
    Yeah well don't worry Mack we don't tolerate duldrum attitudes
    and people who attack out prize members.

    I won't stand for it, if people want their boring disbelief they may have

    it over there or wherever, just don't attack me and my friends and

    everything'll be just fine


    No brag just fact.

    Thanks so very much Mack for stirring us up in the right direction, I

    see grumage is already on the case. Great work man.


    The facts you have suggested will take time to assimilate.

    Don't touch that dial. I enjoy high spirits, it is where the power of

    creating new things rests.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 08-28-2015, 07:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X