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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Hey UFO

    That is such a wonderful program you work for graphics that it

    makes me want to stand up and shout

    I am glad to have you on my team.

    I had not thought of that idea. Good thinkin.

    I guess as long as we keep the entire(Ramp) arm and magnet inside

    of about a 40 degree area of the circle. This makes sense when we hear

    Mack talk ramps and shunts and also the magnetic tuning by putting

    some iron behind the magnet. From what i understand the field spreads

    out with the ramps nearby or in this case ATTACHED yes attached.

    It might be wrong but it is a beautiful picture.
    :
    Last edited by BroMikey; 09-03-2015, 02:46 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Rue,
    Thanks for that info. I tried it and got readings on all my magnets. When I went to put the meter away, right there in the back of the drawer was my gauss meter. I have been looking for it for months. So now I will confirm readings with it before I try to balance things tomorrow.

    Dave

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  • RUE
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    No, I do NOT have four identical magnets. One of my rotor magnets is stronger than the other one.

    As for the stator magnets, don't worry too much about them. It really does NOT matter if anything is equal except the two rotor magnets. They need to be as close to equal as possible. If they are not, when they switch positions (180 degrees) you don't get the same reaction with the stator magnets, and you need that.

    The two stator magnets do NOT have to be the same as the rotor magnets (not even CLOSE)

    They really don't have to be equal to each other. (close will make it easier to balance though)

    They could be stronger magnets than the rotor magnets or weaker magnets than the rotor magnets, and possibly even a different KIND of magnet than the rotor as long as they are CLOSE enough to each other in strength that you can adjust the distance (gap) to the rotor and balance the setup. You have to be able to move ONE of the two stator magnets in and out and balance the setup. If it is a LOT weaker than the other one, you have a problem, but if it is STRONGER than the other one, you just move it farther away. At least that's the way looks to me. Others may disagree.

    And I DID read what was said about "Tuning" the magnets, but first I will go through all the ones I have to see if I can find two that are closer in strength.

    Another way to measure strength of your magnet is to use needles or paperclips. Put a paperclip or a needle on your magnet and attach another paperclip or needle to it magnetically. See how many you can string together. Count them. Now find a magnet that will only let you string together that same number. Less, it's not as strong...more, it is stronger. Hard to do this with neos though. They yank the paperclips all over the place. Might want to attach a long bolt to the neo, and then begin attaching paperclips to the bolt.

    Dave
    If You Have a clamp meter that reads dc amps then it will read the magnetic current of your magnets as dc amps and it does vary from magnet to magnet.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    According to all 'data' rendered here...

    Hello to All,

    Well, putting together all the data and 'hints' posted by MadMack here...I believe the best arrangement would be building ramps which could flip magnetic polarity when rotor magnets swing by in a "Pre" and "Post" Stages...So on the following drawings I use advantage of the Stator Magnets "Neutral" Plane...some would call it Bloch Wall, Domain Walls or like TheoriaAphopasis (Ken Wheeler) would call it "Dielectric Plane" or "Counter Space"...I particularly like the last two better...but getting to the point, this is the part of the magnet embodiment which manifests almost no magnetic influence from either poles to ferromagnetic materials.

    If you get a Neo Cylinder, and pass an iron washer (after a lot of effort, I know) reaching that center "Equator Line", would notice the washer is no longer attracted to either pole, but feel almost in a 'Gravitational' state. And this is the idea where to set the ramps when not influenced by the Rotor Magnets, with the help, of course from springs assisting Ramp to maintain in that center plane. The Pivot axis is shown on diagrams below.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    The way to build this Ramps is just an arc segment cut from an iron tubing, thick enough to drill the small swinging shaft hole through its thickness. Then drilling and filing the holes where magnets would go through.

    Stators are static...Ramps pivots.

    I don't believe we need to go in details like weighting the same, pivoting axis at exact distances for each ramps...same spring tensions as springs I consider better of stainless not to interfere with magnetism influence...other words...identical ramp pieces as identical, measured stator magnets.

    Supposedly, before adding the ramps...Rotor magnets and stators MUST BE BALANCED, meaning they will not tend to stick at their Max point between Attract-Repulse Alignment at 180...but freely move, pass by, meaning they are equally cancelling opposite forces.

    Then We can see the switching Ramps in action below:

    [IMG][/IMG]

    FIG 1 Rotor is in a Neutral Point (in more than two poles there would not be a Neutral Point, so only way to stop motor would be by playing with ramps, moving them opposite than they do thrusting rotation)
    So we slowly push rotor in rotation sense...until Ramp end closer to rotor magnets starts getting attracted and pivots toward rotor magnets (FIG 2), However, by doing this angle movement it enters the North Stator Poles, becoming a North at the ends (from the book and section plus pictures that Mack gave Us, even though I knew all this, since it is part of my coming material, it is called "Magnetic Redirection") So, by both Ramps ends becoming North will assist in the repulsion stage throwing rotor towards max alignment point (FIG 3) Now here, since 'supposedly' we all have a very well balanced rotor and whole set up...that additional repulsion pushing force done by ramps will "unbalance" our work in the right direction... and ramps by the spring action would return to Neutral Position...when rotor passes max alignment point ramps pivot the opposite way by iron on other side being attracted by rotor magnets (FIG 4)...ramps enter the opposite stator polarity (South in this case) adding an attraction force to our rotor, following rotation sense.

    Now a Two Pole Motor will hardly be a good motor, like Mack mentioned...but will do help a lot to understand this main principle...

    Ramps could be build the way you please...like just switching to one polarity in order to unbalance our balanced rotor towards rotation and then returning to "neutral iron" for next pole approaching attraction.

    It would be better if ramps have more iron mass at their ends...so just drilling small holes in the "in-between" areas or grinding away some would do...or just adding some extra iron and keep balancing them...

    The precision required?...Well, figure out you are working for ROLEX in Switzerland...building one of this fine pieces of Art...


    Am I closer now MadMack?


    Thank you all and I hope one way or the other at least one of Us could build this Motion Perpetual Machine...just to F*CK the Establishment...


    Regards


    Ufopolitics

    EDIT 1: FIG 4 is marked as FIG 2 on Right Bottom of sequence, my bad, replaced text copied but not Fig #, sorry.

    Springs are not shown here, but figure they need to be on both ways of ramp, and further enough from pivot point...could be either push or pull springs.

    Stator Magnets need to be mounted in a way that ramp could move freely on its angles, preferably from their back ends and no brackets in front.

    Is understood that in more number of poles, say Four...Pairs of Ramps set at 180 would do South while the other set would be at North operation...just like in an electric motor we have N-S-N-S adjacent Stators in the casing.
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-02-2015, 08:32 PM.

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  • lorinrandone
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    Stator magnets are aligned through the center axis. He said that in a couple different places.

    Yes, the ramps change things and you need BOTH at the same time. But I will wait until I have it balanced first. Sometime TODAY I hope.

    Dave

    stator magnets vibrate,I think. It is totally excluded this possibility. Forgive me for this opinion

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  • Turion
    replied
    Stator Magnets

    Stator magnets are aligned through the center axis. He said that in a couple different places.

    Yes, the ramps change things and you need BOTH at the same time. But I will wait until I have it balanced first. Sometime TODAY I hope.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • Mario
    replied
    Thanks, missed that

    Mario

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  • tachyoncatcher
    replied
    No/Maybe

    Originally posted by Mario View Post
    Dave, I may have missed it, but do the stator magnets not have to be rotated by 30 degrees also? Great to see you're working on it already.

    Mario
    Hi Mario,
    Check Post #50.

    Leave a comment:


  • shylo
    replied
    Nice work Dave, I was just wondering , when the ramp is placed next to the stator magnet as you showed ,do you think that the stator magnets field changes? Meaning now part of it's field is traveling through the ramp?
    So in order to maintain balance you will have to put a ramp at the other side as well.
    Mack did say balance is crucial, try your method for finding strength , then repeat with the ramp beside your magnet, not sure if it will make a difference or not.
    Just throwing out idea's
    Thanks artv

    Leave a comment:


  • Mario
    replied
    Dave, I may have missed it, but do the stator magnets not have to be rotated by 30 degrees also? Great to see you're working on it already.

    Mario

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Plan

    Yep, that's probably a better plan. Will give it a try tomorrow.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • kenssurplus
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post

    Another way to measure strength of your magnet is to use needles or paperclips. Put a paperclip or a needle on your magnet and attach another paperclip or needle to it magnetically. See how many you can string together. Count them. Now find a magnet that will only let you string together that same number. Less, it's not as strong...more, it is stronger. Hard to do this with neos though. They yank the paperclips all over the place. Might want to attach a long bolt to the neo, and then begin attaching paperclips to the bolt.

    Dave
    Hi Dave, possibly an easier and more accurate way to do this would be to lay the paperclip on a wood only board or table (no hidden nails or screws) and then measure the distance away that the Neomag will just start to lift one end. Check with all your Neomags and find the closest two. It might be that you will need to make a sliding scale with a very fine gradient ruler or micrometer. Hope this helps some.
    Last edited by kenssurplus; 09-02-2015, 04:34 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    No, I do NOT have four identical magnets. One of my rotor magnets is stronger than the other one.

    As for the stator magnets, don't worry too much about them. It really does NOT matter if anything is equal except the two rotor magnets. They need to be as close to equal as possible. If they are not, when they switch positions (180 degrees) you don't get the same reaction with the stator magnets, and you need that.

    The two stator magnets do NOT have to be the same as the rotor magnets (not even CLOSE)

    They really don't have to be equal to each other. (close will make it easier to balance though)

    They could be stronger magnets than the rotor magnets or weaker magnets than the rotor magnets, and possibly even a different KIND of magnet than the rotor as long as they are CLOSE enough to each other in strength that you can adjust the distance (gap) to the rotor and balance the setup. You have to be able to move ONE of the two stator magnets in and out and balance the setup. If it is a LOT weaker than the other one, you have a problem, but if it is STRONGER than the other one, you just move it farther away. At least that's the way looks to me. Others may disagree.

    And I DID read what was said about "Tuning" the magnets, but first I will go through all the ones I have to see if I can find two that are closer in strength.

    Another way to measure strength of your magnet is to use needles or paperclips. Put a paperclip or a needle on your magnet and attach another paperclip or needle to it magnetically. See how many you can string together. Count them. Now find a magnet that will only let you string together that same number. Less, it's not as strong...more, it is stronger. Hard to do this with neos though. They yank the paperclips all over the place. Might want to attach a long bolt to the neo, and then begin attaching paperclips to the bolt.

    Dave
    Last edited by Turion; 09-02-2015, 04:11 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post

    I am a born skeptic.

    "Trust everyone, but always cut the cards."

    So basically, trust NO ONE.


    So it becomes VERY CLEAR that my two rotor magnets are NOT of the same strength. Very, VERY clear.


    Two Magnet Rotor 2 - YouTube

    Dave

    So you have four identical magnets and you think this is the

    problem? From here is harder to explain one's self and

    tougher to ask questions. It is good for YOU to be a skeptic because

    of your special gentle traits. Everyone must do what is needed in life

    to keep balance. We all learn the best way to proceed as we gain

    experience.


    The attraction side VS repulsion should not be causing one side to

    be non functional. I say non-functional because the side that does

    not give the effective response we are looking for. I just got a larger

    set of magnets tonight that is not the set I just got in the mail.


    Still no hole in these either. I have a ton of magnets that are slightly

    arc shaped for the large pancake motors. I have 4 that stack one

    on top of the other and are a matched set as far as I can tell.


    Now one thing rolling around in the noodle. The discussion

    we have been having about balancing magnets is as follows.

    This is for me.

    1. Move magnets or adjust magnets on some sort of adjustment

    thread. (Well I see you did that) Still it is out?

    2. put more or less iron on the backside of the stator magnets to
    even up the small differences.

    Do you understand that idea? I picture this like putting a tiny set
    of thin washers all around the back of a magnet to make it stronger.
    But only a tiny bit stronger.

    This is all I have so far on the subject of "tuning a magnet"

    Using this idea will keep us from searching high and low for perfectly

    equal in strength magnets. I think this should be done.

    Which ever magnet you think is weaker add a tiny bit of iron to the

    backside for tuning.

    Nice work Dave, you beat us all to the draw.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 09-02-2015, 02:57 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    Match YOUR Magnets!!

    OK, I put a little plastic sleeve in there that is working for right now until I can get to a hardware store and see what I can find, but it seems to be working.

    I do want to say something here. I wasn't so sure this whole thing's for real, because I am a born skeptic. My favorite saying has always been "Trust everyone, but always cut the cards." So basically, trust NO ONE. There are very few folks in this world I trust. I have been burned far to many times. But I am open minded enough to LISTEN to what people have to say, and then, if it seems plausible, I will build it for MYSELF and make my OWN assessment.You will not see me jumping on the bandwagon and supporting something that I have NOT seen working on my bench.

    As to this device, I have NOT seen it working on my bench, because I have not been able to get it to balance yet. But I have seen how strong the magnets pull toward the ramp as they are rotating around, and I can see that if the magnets are neutral (balanced) this thing should work. That, in itself, has got me motivated.

    So here is a second video. It is long and boring and more for MY records than anything else, but towards the end I set the rotor in specific positions, and it becomes VERY CLEAR that my two rotor magnets are NOT of the same strength. Very, VERY clear. SO I am going looking for two more "balanced" magnets. The way I will do this is simple. I will remove the attractive stator magnet. l will take ONE of the magnets off my rotor and hold the other one at the break point on the repulsion magnet. Then let it go and observe how far the magnet pushes it away. Try this several times to get an average and then measure that distance and record it. Then replace that magnet with another and repeat the process. I only have 12 magnets, but out of those 12 I should be able to find the best two that rotate the rotor equal distance when released. Just more things to add to my list of stuff to get done.
    Two Magnet Rotor 2 - YouTube

    Dave
    Last edited by Turion; 09-02-2015, 12:25 AM.

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