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  • CANGAS
    replied
    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post
    Yes I was thinking that my ceramic motor magnets are 10X weaker than

    my neos and what looks like cogging with neo's does not seem to look

    like cogging with ceramic, but it is. It is just weaker so it just seems

    better but like you say what about acceleration?

    Great progress. Mack did say that square magnets are his choice.

    Also I keep thinking about the mapping Howard J. did and how

    complex his measurements were. Howy had visualization tools

    no less. The reason I bring this up is the pole reversal that is going

    on in these motors. As the magnets swing past one another many

    field changes take place.


    Mack said he thought of his magnets and their poles as they would

    go past one another as getting stronger as the approach to the center

    line (THE STRONGEST POINT) then diminishing or lowering in push or

    pull.

    Since attraction and repulsion are not equal, one being stronger, then

    it also stands to reason that the field lines will be of a slightly different

    shape.

    This unequal set of forces might be balances in many ways.

    For all practical purposes we can say 180 degrees across from the

    attractive field is the repulsion but this is what we can not see.

    We can not see that each magnet centerline may be off center by

    several thousandths of an inch or mm.

    This thought causes me to make my magnet holder adjustable in

    both X & Y axes. The picture I have shown is only my first brain

    storm and is rapidly evolving into a combination of threaded

    adjusters.

    Like I said I have wanted to do this one for years and years.

    Now I can go ahead and finally scratch this itch.


    Also on another design construction note. I am digging up my SS screws

    that are non magnetic in case my build might throw off the forces using

    iron screws.

    The grain oriented metals for ramps is also very important.
    Also on another design construction note. I am digging up my SS screws

    that are non magnetic in case my build might throw off the forces using

    iron screws.


    BroMikey, it is a safe guess that you are already an expert mechanic.

    For the benefit of anyone not already being an expert mechanic, a body can find non-magnetic brass and aluminum screws and bolts and nuts also at Loews.

    And plastic fasteners too, but if you assume yo motor might run faster than about 1.98 RPM, you should NOT rely on plastic stuff to resist the centrifugal force.


    CANGAS
    Last edited by CANGAS; 04-02-2016, 10:04 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    There is no right or wrong way to do this so this thread
    becomes a train wreck. You must stick with the progress
    that has been made as some where to start. If we have
    no end or beginning, no wrong way, no direction, no results
    to compare with one another, we are in conflict.

    Mack has been more than kind allowing anything and everything
    but that is not helping us here, let's do it right.

    UFO has shown the basics of what MadMack has said
    was everything he can share about that motor that is
    already patented. END OF STORY.

    These small diagrams show working shapes for ramps
    as agreed on by MACK. END OF STORY.

    If you want to change this design all around start a
    new thread.

    END OF STORY on general shape and placement or the
    orientation of the ramp and ramp angles for induction.

    The only thing different about MACK's motor I see is it
    uses a split flux path in the shape of a "Y" to reduce to a
    minimum flux at the end of the stroke. END OF STORY.

    OR we could say for this particular design "Etched IN Stone"

    In other words this is the correct build for all early experimenters.

    In order to have a discuss without complete and total break down
    of all communications, we must agree (AND DID) on a basic
    starting point.

    Later aluminum shielding or copper and plastic for flux manipulation.

    This message is to those who want to have a discussion with
    others who use the starter design. Stick to the basis arrived
    on thru endless hours of hints, questions to form this agreed
    upon motor starter diagram.

    Otherwise you are following total confusion. If you have assumed
    none of the details offered in these diagram's hold any value for
    the basic design then I would have to say that you need to reread
    this entire thread.

    This thread was worked on very hard in a short time to draw
    these conclusions about what a MADMACK motor looks like.

    Mack can't draw and he must be very careful about spilling
    all of the beans but has given us a starting point.

    I have used these shaped as suggested by Mack to make
    a rotor magnet travel in one direction just as any magnet
    motor is designed to do.

    Unless you understand these basic ideas and apply them as
    a first step before changing everything you are being shown
    you are bringing in confusion.

    Look at the ideas presented for induction ramps.

    Start here and later you can cut your losses, but start
    from the beginning so you have a point of reference. Using
    round magnets is not an option save them for your refrigerator.

    So far UFO is the only person who has shown a properly
    designed starter module. No one else has a single module
    yet using the proper material, including me.

    MACK recently chimed in and discontinued this design for
    beginners in favor of his coming new design in the next few months.

    Stay tuned. Remember this, I have worked my azz off trying
    to arrive at this design over a period of months and the only
    one who has worked harder than me is UFO. Hours and
    hours of work and people don't even read or understand it
    before they open a discussion.

    I am sure someone is glad that we did. I did it for me and only
    2 people on this forum acknowledged the placement of the
    pieces of this puzzle as it was drawn and brought to a final
    assembly.

    The rest of you can do your own thing, I will correct you.

    Here, let me bring you all up to speed. And as long as
    I am welcome here I will defeat the divide and conquer.
























    Last edited by BroMikey; 03-11-2016, 07:17 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion
    If you aren't building it and trying to make it work you need to get a different hobby! LOL

    Dave

    You have me so confused now on which end is what I would be
    wasting my time. We had already done this work Sir, it's not
    like I am speaking from speculation and as far as you becoming
    ashamed of our exchange because no video proof shows
    real hands on, I think we are doing just fine.

    The other end? No, No you are incorrect, but I see you are out
    of time and think that talking is worthless, so i won't hold you.

    When or if you get the extra time come back. Till then thanks
    for everything, I know how you feel spreading yourself thin
    and talking endless speculating is fruitless.

    I want to see your other stuff, so get back on it and blab later.


    Last edited by BroMikey; 03-11-2016, 04:06 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Moving flux out of the iron with copper diluting concentration.

    Copper tine tip, humm... Sounds like a plan.

    It's comin round.


    Last edited by BroMikey; 03-10-2016, 08:59 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion
    The only way I can see to do that is to extend the flux path by extending the steel. I know that is still exaggerated, but it shows what I am thinking. Something like the attached. Anybody else have a better idea?
    Return path of copper?


    Originally posted by MadMack View Post
    Dave,
    Now when the rotor magnet is pushed away give the flux in the iron a way to keep moving with the rotor magnet so it doesn't jerk it backwards like a stretched rubber band.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 03-10-2016, 08:46 AM.

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  • lorinrandone
    replied
    I agree

    You have returned. All right
    But nobody not forget that his return has been caused. I do not care that this is going to start comments. Remember that you have left us in step four, and now you send us back to pas both. Nothing some detail on the North ramp. We are recomendas ferrite magnets. All right. For you and for others, I reported that during the first part with you and until last month, I've been with this engine. Long time, but I can say now that I've learned a lot.
    You know why I have continued? For the same reasons presented by Dave. The effects of the ramps on magnets, were real, to a certain step. From two poles, things are complicated, and you have left when it was time to clarify why this happens. From the beginning I use copper rivets for the same reason, you can see the photos uploaded on the thread.
    You are telling me that I have another design. No, it's your design. We did not start with the same stupid thing; magnets, square flow, round magnets, round flow. This is too much.
    Returning to ferrite magnets, this is wasted time, and participants - there is almost no effect with ramps. I've tried everything. If you recommend a return to ferrite magnets, it means that you do not have more details about the project, or an insult. We are not your students and you are not the teacher. You started the thread, needing the support of fellow members. If you want to give more information, you start with step four. So it is normal and logical.
    Do not forget, I used to communicate the translator of Google chrome. By Any inadvertence, I ask forgiveness in advance
    Regard. cristian

    Leave a comment:


  • MadMack
    replied
    Dave,

    Now when the rotor magnet is pushed away give the flux in the iron a way to keep moving with the rotor magnet so it doesn't jerk it backwards like a stretched rubber band.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion
    Take a piece of iron or steel and a magnet on a rotor. At what point does the magnet want to "stop" on the length of the steel piece if it is bent so that it follows the curve of the rotor? MARK THAT SPOT.
    Exactly, and then we had other entries. But to address your
    question for me, mine would stop at the center of the mass
    also the closest point.

    We discussed laminating iron with plastic as one form of augmentation
    to manipulate the flux paths. And since the goal of rerouting these
    energies is to use the iron as a powerful inductive force we need to
    always be mindful of our need for releasing the rotor magnet
    from it's grip on the ramps, thus a "Y" tine formation as a first step.

    As we have heard, it is the smallest of forces we should not
    overlook so the "Y" or splitting of flux might be further improved
    by a variety of composite ramp designs. As I singled out plastic
    where the lamination might be a sort of shim on the ends of the
    "Y" tines where every other piece of iron could be removed to
    lower pull at the end of the stroke.

    Also the tampering of tine ends. On top of that to further
    lessen flux at the very end a piece of copper might absorb
    energy away? DONNO

    Just endless speculation without a clue.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by MadMack View Post
    Mike,

    Don't stop if you don't want to stop.
    I will stop when you tell me to stop. I am still learning
    and of course as a beginner I have little experience with how these
    hints add together.

    Are you saying that I should stop building? That is stop building
    the design you left us with before you went away last year?

    I know Dave said he had an email, telling him to stop.

    Does that mean you want us all to stop building the old
    design? As far as copper being next to iron in an electrical
    motor is common knowledge.

    So I gather i am not ready to build a motor because I don't
    understand how the non ferrous materials should be applied?
    It's coming around.

    Okay I get that. Yes I see what you are saying here.

    Now let's go to your new input as of today. You say to look
    at the normal motor with iron and copper. I guess I have not
    looked at a normal motor in detail to apply that to other things.

    I will give it some thought. Copper collects energy so in that
    respect I might conclude that where the "Y" ramp tines terminate
    having a great deal of energy left over, copper might be used in
    the proper shape to direct that energy away from the termination
    point.

    That is what I get. Stopping? Yeah stop thinking I have a complete
    picture of a working motor. I can live with that, til then I am not
    stopping in the learning process.

    I have stopped the old design because I can't dial it all in without
    a highly accurate machining process and since you have stated in
    the past that a motor does not require that I must assume that
    my understanding of the ramps needed are incomplete.

    Thanks MadMack Some would call this a "whale of a tail"
    but me? I love it just the way it is. I hate being spoon fed.


    Leave a comment:


  • MadMack
    replied
    Mike,

    Don't stop if you don't want to stop. I'm not being mysterious, those aren't hints, they are questions you should be finding the answers to if you are serious about this. The copper or aluminum could be used the same way a shunt winding is used in a single phase electric motor, to alter a magnetic field at a certain point in time. The magnets create magnetic fields in the iron and the iron attracts magnets. You have to use the interaction between the iron & magnets to provide the motive force. The only way to do that is to change the relationship between the magnets and the iron on the fly.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Okay I take MadMack's last post to mean many things
    but the most important idea I see in his post is he is saying
    "DON'T STOP".

    I had stopped for several reasons of my own such as tooling
    but stopping in favor of a new design is probably premature
    for me since I have a lot of studying to do with the basics
    then maybe later I can move up to the new design.

    First things first.

    #2 Using aluminum and copper WITH iron in ramps to control
    flux. I will try to understand the direction MadMack gave in
    hints coming from randy and ufo hints. This is a job for those
    who have the time and determination and all of the hints
    are nice at the right time but does not take the place of
    real hands on.

    And a more advance experimenter will not be able to relate
    his knowledge to those who have not explored the stepping
    stone TO advancement.


    What am I saying here? It is up to each man as it always has been.
    Each person must learn all of the things needed to advance so
    no easy snap together model exists.



    How do I know this? No one has shown a working model. Each
    person must be content to spend huge amounts of time to
    further their learning experience and with that out of the way
    let's get on with it.

    I love learning.

    So hints about hint's

    Okay I am back, here is what I get. Flux gating is the overall
    reference with the induction of the iron, the other materials
    as a means of transitioning the release of the rotor magnet
    trapped in energy.

    It is well known that copper does respond to a magnets in the
    proper geometry. The time relationship part of MadMacks post
    deals with using non ferrous metals in close proximity with
    iron. This is a new doorway and will take considerable time
    and effort to collect data.

    What have we seen with copper? If copper is on both sides
    of a magnet there is some effect, right? Where are our ramp
    tines? On each side of a magnet, right?

    The aluminum can be used to break up a magnetic field
    or even stop a field from getting across.

    As we all know, the object of the ramp will be to induce
    the rotor in one direction (at a time) using powerful or
    weak magnets and create a composite as part of the ramp
    to release the rotor magnet over time.

    I am in and out of many projects some I put on hold to
    learn new things. I spend very little time experimenting
    at present but that again will change as I gain ideas.


    Last edited by BroMikey; 03-09-2016, 09:31 PM.

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  • MadMack
    replied
    Dave, no worries. I just didn't want people to get their expectations up prematurely. Your group is doing important and fruitful work that deserves your focus. If this thread has helped you with that in any way then it has been well worth it.

    I appreciate everyone's well wishes and support too. Thank you.

    For those of you wishing to continue with this, PLEASE, do not spend a bunch of money on it until you are positive you have a working configuration. Work with a cheap test rig until then.

    You all realize the split Y ramp is a piece of a ramp, a segment, don't you? It is not THE ramp. It was a place to start experimenting. Go back and look at Ufo's test videos where the back pull of his ramps is so obvious.
    Remember this old joke? “Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this! Doctor: Then don't do that!” Those are words of wisdom.

    This is the minimum that you are working with. Two or more magnets. Iron. Motion. Time. Physical orientation and spacing of the components at any moment. You might want to consider a piece of copper or aluminum too (induced magnetism when a magnet passes). Those are your variables.
    Which variables can manipulate others? Which ones can be manipulated by others? What properties does each variable have? Which properties can be altered or created by another variable, by physical size and/or construction? Altered in which ways? Which properties are significant? Iron for example can have a number of different properties depending on the magnetic field(s) it is exposed to. One section of iron can have multiple magnetic poles. Those poles can be temporary and they can move within the iron, etc. Randy pointed out those last three facts a long time ago. Can you make use of those properties, or do you need to minimize their effects? Iron can also shape and direct magnetism. How can time or motion affect things?

    If you are serious then get your test rig and experiment with these variables. A couple of ceramic magnets and a few pieces of sheet steel can teach you things or remind you of something you may have overlooked. Talk to each other and bounce ideas off each other. Focus on the effects and how to produce them or minimize them, not so much on the explanation of the effects or what they are at the atomic level or why they exist in this universe.

    Most of all experiment, share ideas, and discuss!

    Lastly, don't limit your imagination to the configuration of an electric motor. The goal is simply the rotation of an output shaft that provides torque.


    I hope you understand that circumstances being what they are I am focusing my time and efforts on the new motor design (and the preliminary results are encouraging) so my input on this thread will be limited.

    Mack

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Mack,
    Glad you are up and around. Hope you the best and thanks for the knowledge you passed on to us for the magnet motor. I learned how to balance the opposing poles and was excited about it.
    But monies and materials are few for me so I moved on. Also had no success with the ramp construction. Excuses I know but regretful for not trying more as my shop is littered with projects.

    Any way glad you are back and hope you continue here,
    wantomake
    PS Look forward to your new ideas.

    Leave a comment:


  • ron48
    replied
    Lot of us watching that are learning
    I have been a member of this site for yrs and the information you have supplied is exceptional. I wish you would continue with your great knowldge and wisdom. I for one do appreciate it and tinsel is just a person who thinks nothing is possible in the search for the truth, disregard his rubbish. Glad the operation went well best wishes to you and yours. Ron

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Hi MadMack

    Sorry about the sluggish progress, I am sure you saw my
    posts on my ultrasonic setup and the tooling took more
    time than I thought. I was going to start punching holes
    when we got word to hold off. I had multiple failures
    where I kept sending out for returns and more parts.

    Not a problem. I pointed out this attitude with others
    who go their own way making motors that claim your
    motor was only speculative. I saw through that right
    away. Call it a 6th sense

    Anyway MadMack good to have you up and att'em
    and the work shop is getting back into shape. I too
    want to thank you for your direction with my first
    test motor.

    I learned more from you in a few hours than I have seen
    be taught in years on this subject. The message of
    cancellation has so many great applications to make
    it possible to tap into magnetic energy without the drag.

    I have never stated that I was way ahead of everybody
    and a magnet motor man who can tell everybody a thing
    or two. Not me, I am trying to get my foot inside of the
    door to learn new things.

    Thanks MadMack, you have the floor SIR. My bearings are
    here and the tooling to use my welder and I will make a plastic
    base soon, all of this for testing. My old motor keeps the dream
    alive, to learn more.

    Okay one thing before I am off to work. The forks "Y" ramps
    are very exciting to me and I have piles of this metal now
    to build ramps that will not become magnetic even tho the
    fields reverse at each pole.

    Glad you made is back form hell May God Bless You

    I worked at a hospital and they would call me into surgery to
    repair machines while in progress. Most people don't realize
    how fragile a human body is.

    Know this, I am glad you are here.


    Last edited by BroMikey; 03-08-2016, 09:43 PM.

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