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  • tachyoncatcher
    replied
    B field

    Thanks Mike,
    I have a good knowledge of the plastic's ability to store dielectric potential. What I totally dismissed was the fact that there is a B field component to that mix. After thinking about it, it makes sense. Wherever we find electricity, we will find a magnetic field. I guess I figured it was weak enough not to interfere with what we are doing. After all, we live in a sea of magnetic field which is actually quite strong. We dismiss that too. This project does get you thinking about ALL the magnetic fields and their influences to the mass involved in this motor and how to exploit that energy on an ongoing basis. Yeah, I just called magnetism, energy. Physicists, deal with it. There are too many examples in nature that make statement to this fact. Including this little motor.

    Cheers,

    Randy
    Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 10-10-2015, 05:10 PM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Hello Everyone

    I am back to let you know I am cleaning up some of my previously

    fumbled diagrams. Such as direction of rotation. Thanks UFO.

    Hurry up over there, and making that book. ASAP. We don't

    want to beat the slaved now do we? Don't worry, you'll get your

    second wind because for now on you are going to become a "wanted man".

    I edited all of my past mistakes so direction of rotation is proper.

    What a job it was.

    Last edited by BroMikey; 10-10-2015, 08:30 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
    Wow! Mike, every time I re-read the above content, I cultivate a little more knowledge and action points to experiment with. I have not read before, that plastic could be used as a store of magnetic energy. Only as a storage of dielectric potential, which we are not working with here. -- Don't start U.P., different dielectric reference.-- I'm sincere when I say I want to learn more about plastics potential magnetic storage capabilities. Do you have any reference material to point me to? Thanks for the added direction regarding my ramps.

    Thanks,

    Randy
    Start here. Do a search on "PLASTIC ELECTRICAL CHARGE"

    Here is one or two references. At yer service. Plastic magnets too.

    I am a doe doe when it come to detailed terminology explanations

    but I know what I mean. Even my thumb will unstruct a magnetic field

    so make sure you use the right material. Composites? I don't know.

    And make sure all the same for every magnet. Simple Simon I

    know. But everything has an effect on everything. Not very clear

    I know. Just general knowledge for practical thought. Look at these

    and you will see. The candles are the same as plastic, organic. The nails

    the shielding and of course a magnet. We don't have that kind of positive

    heat i wouldn't think. Somethings we just don't know. We think we know.

    Like making a simple magnet motor, we think we know, HUH?

    All magnets with there fields and adjacent metals conduct. Conduct?

    Conduct what? Or induce what? Electrical charge. Electrical charge

    effect magnetic fields and magnetic fields influence electrical charge.

    School boy analogy. That's me just simple.

    A hammer, nails and a skill saw and I'm good to go.

    That's why I like Macks project, even a slow poke like me can catch

    on to this stuff. Maybe we should ask Mack why he chose nylon for

    his rotor. I'll give you a hint also Nylon can be hit with a hammer

    but acrylic will crack over nothing and collect electrons. Nylon

    is used in electric insulator work. Your car starter has a nylon washer

    well its on the solenoid. Very dependable stuff. It ain't cheap.

    Certain plastic like HDPE become highly charged and influence magnets

    setting up a greater negative electron charge than other materials. Don't

    use polystyrene. Just a little joke.

    NYLON:
    Nylon has good resistance to abrasion, chemic
    als, and high voltages and is often used to
    manufacture electro-mechanical components. Nylon is ex
    truded and cast and is filled with a variety of other
    materials to improve weathering, impact resistance, coe
    fficient of friction, and stiffness.


    Questions and Answers - Why does rubbing plastic and wool together create electricity?


    Electric Charges Definition | Tutorvista.com


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_magnet


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_monopole









    [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMpKYFsl6PI[/VIDEO]


    [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57s7e9Dl2wQ[/VIDEO]


    [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFrimb5mNMk[/VIDEO]
    Last edited by BroMikey; 10-10-2015, 08:03 PM.

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  • tachyoncatcher
    replied
    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post
    ... How do
    I know? Blind faith for openers. Then I am building one with "Y" ramps and
    have felt the amounts of force needed to complete each task.
    Now we go to the shielding.
    We really can not go to the shielding yet because I need to get you to see
    how the "Y" ramp collects and redirects stator magnet flux. The shielding
    will serve to increase these collected amounts going through the ramps
    so that energy does not just sit there. The power of the system will
    increase. And also as the board becomes more populated, excess stray
    energy might tend to be picked up by a near by station interfering.

    @Randy
    The shielding. If you have a balance in step one and then after adding
    ramps you have a balance then shielding must be done in a way to
    preserve the balance. I would start with 1/2" gaps between magnet
    and metal using plastic as a spacer but remember the picture leads
    us to use a lattice for spacing. Some plastic collects greater amounts
    of energy than others and we don't want a barrier.
    Another speculation is that the shielding on the ends of the poles might
    serve to lower amount of kickback regardless of how small. It is the little
    things remember.
    Wow! Mike, every time I re-read the above content, I cultivate a little more knowledge and action points to experiment with. I have not read before, that plastic could be used as a store of magnetic energy. Only as a storage of dielectric potential, which we are not working with here. -- Don't start U.P., different dielectric reference.-- I'm sincere when I say I want to learn more about plastics potential magnetic storage capabilities. Do you have any reference material to point me to? Thanks for the added direction regarding my ramps.

    Thanks,

    Randy

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by shylo View Post
    I'm not trying to discourage anybody,
    That kick you see , where there is a point of hesitation ,and then the kick past.
    That point is the sticky spot, THAT is what will lock you up.
    Get it to kick and let gravity take over.
    I have accomplished that kick in many different designs , but adding more always ends up the same lock-up.
    The problem with gravity is it helps on the down side but hinders on the up side.
    Shielding is a myth putting a piece of steel between magnets only intesifies attraction or repulsion.
    Good Luck to All
    I hope I'm wrong.
    artv
    I suppose you are right from one stand point. My first question would be

    "WHAT DO THE RAMPS LOOK LIKE" on these designs? Are these just bent

    pieces of metal? I understand also that UFO used the gravity side and you

    are worried that the hesitation we see, represents energy needed to over

    come the resistance at the entrance of this gate where acceleration then

    takes place. This is why it has been pointed out that this design is not

    self starting. I do all my testing horizontally.


    This is a ligament concern. Correctly phrased your question

    should be "Does the amount of force at the HESITATION point exceed

    the energy derived from the Ramping effect"???


    I know you will not believe me so I will just say that the answer is NO!!.

    No the energy input does not equal or exceed the output energy. How do

    I know? Blind faith for openers. Then I am building one with "Y" ramps and

    have felt the amounts of force needed to complete each task.

    Now we go to the shielding.

    We really can not go to the shielding yet because I need to get you to see

    how the "Y" ramp collects and redirects stator magnet flux. The shielding

    will serve to increase these collected amounts going through the ramps

    so that energy does not just sit there. The power of the system will

    increase. And also as the board becomes more populated, excess stray

    energy might tend to be picked up by a near by station interfering.




    @Randy

    The shielding. If you have a balance in step one and then after adding

    ramps you have a balance then shielding must be done in a way to

    preserve the balance. I would start with 1/2" gaps between magnet

    and metal using plastic as a spacer but remember the picture leads

    us to use a lattice for spacing. Some plastic collects greater amounts

    of energy than others and we don't want a barrier.

    Another speculation is that the shielding on the ends of the poles might

    serve to lower amount of kickback regardless of how small. It is the little

    things remember.

    @Shylo

    This balanced system of cancellation of magnetic fields represent potentially

    hundreds of pounds of force collectively. What little kick back we see

    entering the ramp gate is only a fraction of the "POWER STROKE"

    Take it or leave it. Since you have many many builds and all of this

    experience why haven't you thrown a set of "Y" gates, I mean ramps

    on one??
    Last edited by BroMikey; 10-10-2015, 02:40 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    Build

    With only TWO stators and all the magnets on the rotor correctly tuned, it will either self run or it won't. Adding MORE stators will NOT make it work if it doesn't work with two, so don't waste your time!!!!! More stators will make it run faster and stronger, but unless it runs with just two, it will NEVER self run.

    Dave

    Off to Australia. Back in a couple weeks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Just a funny comment on YT...

    This was a comment from Lidmotor on the magnetic motor Ramps video...:

    I can make that run!!! Just add a small coil, a reed switch, and a button cell -----and she will run for a whole YouTube video. Ha. Just kidding. I don't think that these will ever work because of the basic laws of nature they break but the attempts are sure fun to watch. I might build one just for the fun of it. Maybe solar power it somehow.
    I hope he will build one...he is a great builder!

    Funny guy...


    Ufopolitics

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Originally posted by tachyoncatcher View Post

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    It was never intended to self run nor increase acceleration by means of only two modules, two rotor magnets and two stators!...come on friend, you know that.
    No Ufo, I don't know that. In my mind and confirmed by Mack, each module is a duplicate of the first. A module being what you showed in the video. In my mind we should see constant rotation or even acceleration from one module. Unless excessive losses due to crappy bearings, or large berings and shaft are being used. Then, as we add modules we add additional power. If one module is insufficient to cause rotation on its own, then additional modules will not help.

    Randy
    Negative Tachyoncatcher, we can not expect that only two stators of 1/4 inch face-circumference will turn only two 1/4 inch magnets every 180 space-time...not with the force shown on that video.

    This is not a 140-150 Arc Segment Magnet like we see in a two stator coil motor friend...where also the engaged coils take that much circumference as stator...just off center.

    This motor requires ALL Modules mounted on as well as all rotors to create the complete 360 vectors of force, perfectly distributed either every 60 for a six module...or every 45 for eight modules...and even so, like Mack said, it requires a starting spin to run, (he mentioned before his first motor was not a self starter) just like an ICE Engine requires a starter motor to run.

    Even a Four Module Motor will not work because of too wide spacing from one interaction to the other (90)...

    Anyone ever tried to start a weed eater sitting for a while?...How many times do we have to pull the darn cord -after we prime it and choke it of course- to get the small little farter to start up?

    I see this motor just like that except we need not that many tries to start it up.

    On my build I just finished mounting all rotor magnets...I built two shunts but had to remove one rotor magnet off the center 3 point line......You notice this when you slowly turn it and find a pair that causes either more attract or repulse at 180 than the rest...but no sweat, done deal, now runs like a charm.

    I also see that a lot of different adjustments must be done here...every time we install new stators, ramps, or shunts...and then some more...the rotor disc must also be perfectly aligned to base plate...every time we R&I Assy.

    But I can feel it "wanting to start up"...just like we feel on a gas engine that we are playing with carburetor needles...or timing settings...etc,etc.

    What I recommend is TONS of Patience here...if you get frustrated cause too many things went or are going wrong...take a brake...go watch a movie...or eat something...and let it rest...

    Or you could laugh a lot with Mikey comments...like I did with his previous post from this funny guy...

    Take care guys...I thought I was gonna be finished soon...but nope...another day is gone.


    Regards


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-09-2015, 10:21 PM.

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  • shylo
    replied
    the kick

    I'm not trying to discourage anybody,
    That kick you see , where there is a point of hesitation ,and then the kick past.
    That point is the sticky spot, THAT is what will lock you up.
    Get it to kick and let gravity take over.
    I have accomplished that kick in many different designs , but adding more always ends up the same lock-up.
    The problem with gravity is it helps on the down side but hinders on the up side.
    Shielding is a myth putting a piece of steel between magnets only intesifies attraction or repulsion.
    Good Luck to All
    I hope I'm wrong.
    artv

    Leave a comment:


  • tachyoncatcher
    replied
    Thanks

    Thanks everyone for the encouragement. But seriously, I didn't want builders who are just joining us to get the wrong idea and get frustrated when it didn't run from what we have shared so far. It's great to have enthusiasm for your project, but we must be careful of our claims as new people will have a ear to us and a ear to the nay sayers who have nothing invested in this project, but know everything about it. As most of you have been around here for a while, you know it. The more people who build, the faster to success, as none of us is as smart as the whole of us. I have no intent to be discouraging, only precise and as factual as I can. There is enough embelishment that goes on in these forums and it can derail a projects momentum when other builder don't get the results.
    Originally posted by MadMack View Post
    Tachyoncatcher,
    No wrath from me. Maybe it's premature for the skeptics and the got to see it run camp, but not for me. You see, I know where the turning point is and Ufo just met it with the single ramp test, and from your words I gather you have that too. That power stroke is what I have been waiting for. ... But for me it's the top of the first inning in this game and we just scored a home run.
    Respectfully,
    Mack
    Thanks Mack, that tells me three things. My ramps are working as their supposed to as I get the same results as Ufo with gradual slowing down of the rotor. Two, they can get better. Three, acceleration past the stator magnets is the next goal.
    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    ... It was never intended to self run nor increase acceleration by means of only two modules, two rotor magnets and two stators!...come on friend, you know that....
    No Ufo, I don't know that. In my mind and confirmed by Mack, each module is a duplicate of the first. A module being what you showed in the video. In my mind we should see constant rotation or even acceleration from one module. Unless excessive losses due to crappy bearings, or large berings and shaft are being used. Then, as we add modules we add additional power. If one module is insufficient to cause rotation on its own, then additional modules will not help.

    For everyone's benefit, I am not using solid shunts, but layered shunts using sheet steel and a diamagnetic, aluminum. It should give me the same results as using copper for this application. I did use different sized shunts on the different stators. Small, 25% face covering on the attraction stators. Larger 66% face covering on the repulsion stators. Hence the imbalance. I was hoping enough thrust would be generated combined with momentum, to overcome the imbalances. Not so.

    I think I will follow Mack's advise and work to improve the ramp thrust.

    Mike, you are right. I assume every post of Mack's is the last post base on his opening post and his legal conflicts.

    Thanks for listening,

    Randy

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
    Gentlemen,
    I will probably get some wrath for saying this, but I think congratulations are premature. I fully believe in this motors ability to self power. But, we have not yet seen this motor turn on its own. Ufopolitic's example did slow down as all of us builders have seen. When you add shunts, you will see it is not so simple. The magnetic fields of the stators are greatly altered by the shunts and the balance is lost, losing the acceleration gained by the ramps. Shunt science is a whole other animal that we will need to conquer before we can claim success with this motor. We will prevail, but it is too soon to break out the beer. Sorry Mack, your jubilant response tells me we are really close but my motor does not self run. I have accelerating ramps that release the rotor magnets, shunted stator magnets that are now out of balance. I am now experimenting with the stator angles and different types of shunts. No one wins if we claim success before we have a working example that can be shown.

    Respectfully,

    Randy
    Hey Randy

    Mack is not leaving us dude. Just hold on it's gonna be okay.

    This is what you sound like.


    "No NO Mack don't go I still need help, the fat Lady ain't sung and

    I don't know what i would do with out you."

    See what I mean? From the scientific approach of your message?

    I love it. Your my pal Randy.

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Thanks and appreciation

    All thanks to you Madmack,
    The sacrifices and pains you endured I believe will pay off one day. God bless you for taking a chance with us.

    I see your point brother Randy, but I saw the YouTube video and it was reassurring to see something actually spin on its own.

    Thanks and let's move toward they future,
    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    My pleasure Mack!

    Originally posted by MadMack View Post
    Ufo,

    Thank you and God bless you for believing in me. Thank you for spending your time and resources to prove to the world that my motor is a reality. I can not express the joy and happiness you have given me this day.

    Thanks also to everyone who assisted and also spent precious time and hard earned money to test things along the way. Tachyoncatcher, BroMikey, Wantomake, Turion, and everyone else. Thanks also to those who simply kept an open mind.

    Please continue onward everyone. Better designs will flow from this one!

    It's out! There's no turning back now!

    Mack
    It is all my pleasure Mack!

    Thanks to you for bringing this technology in...and show us all... the way to make it work.

    It sounds to me that you have a pretty wide knowledge about magnetic fields that go far beyond what we all have learned in school...right?...


    Warm Regards


    Ufopolitics

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Originally posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
    Gentlemen,
    I will probably get some wrath for saying this, but I think congratulations are premature. I fully believe in this motors ability to self power. But, we have not yet seen this motor turn on its own. Ufopolitic's example did slow down as all of us builders have seen.
    Hey Tachyoncatcher, don't get disappointed friend!

    It all about being very optimistic here...is part of the joy...

    The video I have shown was only to demonstrate the ability of ramps to accelerate plus pass the center stators line...and of course observing the angles of displacement and strength (the power stroke)

    It was never intended to self run nor increase acceleration by means of only two modules, two rotor magnets and two stators!...come on friend, you know that.

    When you add shunts, you will see it is not so simple. The magnetic fields of the stators are greatly altered by the shunts and the balance is lost, losing the acceleration gained by the ramps. Shunt science is a whole other animal that we will need to conquer before we can claim success with this motor. We will prevail, but it is too soon to break out the beer. Sorry Mack, your jubilant response tells me we are really close but my motor does not self run. I have accelerating ramps that release the rotor magnets, shunted stator magnets that are now out of balance. I am now experimenting with the stator angles and different types of shunts. No one wins if we claim success before we have a working example that can be shown.

    Respectfully,

    Randy
    It will help you a lot, but I really mean a lot...if you would observe your shunts under magnetic viewing film...or even an old CRT screening will help you see what's going on.

    You know you do not need to "fully" shunt, meaning not from pole to pole with a "["...as Mack has shown you could use a "L", not covering the front face of stator towards rotor, but just the rear end, and still obtain "unequal forces"...shunt means -in this particular case- to divert ...so it is not about shunting an electrical circuit...different applications.

    Try to use heavy shunts, not just a single lamination of steel but many to make them very close to stator cross section in an "L" Shape...keep the alignment towards the stators face like before...and you are gonna come back here screaming with joy again...

    If your rotation is CW looking towards front...and attract is on top, and all north rotor magnets (just as my motor is)...then add shunt to the right of the upper South Stator...use copper lamination between steel laminates and stator magnets. What you are doing is "redirecting" your attract Stator North Pole next to your South Pole...seen with magnetic film you will notice the domain wall or dielectric plane have become "diagonal" towards the redirected North Pole...then test it.


    Good luck and see you all soon...


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-09-2015, 05:49 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • MadMack
    replied
    Tachyoncatcher,

    No wrath from me. Maybe it's premature for the skeptics and the got to see it run camp, but not for me. You see, I know where the turning point is and Ufo just met it with the single ramp test, and from your words I gather you have that too. That power stroke is what I have been waiting for.

    The motor does not have to have shunts in order to simply self rotate. Maybe it would be a good idea to hold off on those until the ramp only version is completed, but that is up to you guys. Remember the steps I suggested? First, each ramp by itself and then together?

    I appreciate your conservative attitude as it is proper from the scientific point of view. But for me it's the top of the first inning in this game and we just scored a home run.

    Respectfully,
    Mack

    Leave a comment:

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