Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[MadMack]

Common sense

It has been pointed out to you on a few occasions already that when there is a ground loop when using the mains, that it is possible that a power meter at the input of the device may not correctly detect the actual power being used. If the ground loop bypasses the power meter, then the meter may possibly not properly measure the power drawn in the loop that is bypassing it, depending on the type of power meter being used.

Sorry, it doesn't make sense to me. Rather than just take it for granted that you are right or Clarence is right I have done a little research and compared it to Clarence's circuit and his ground rod arrangement.

http://web.mit.edu/~jhawk/tmp/p/EST0...ps_handout.pdf

In particular pages 3 to 6. Clarence measured the current as it entered his circuit and measured the current at the load in his circuit. Why would that be invalid? The house meter has nothing to do with it. To think that his ground center rods are getting current from a single house ground rod 20 times farther away than the multitude of rods surrounding his center rods is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

If that were the case then my house has ground loops with my neighbors electric service on all sides.

Mack

[wantomake]

Did succeed

Clarence,
Thanks for this replication, it's good to see something that can harvest energy from the planet without polluting it in return. I've been a little successful using the captor setup, but using car coils instead of toroids. Only lights a 13 watt cfl and powers the charger to the battery bank.

I'm only able to do a small setup with 5 copper grounding rods. Therefore I'm certain, as it did happen, that energy can be pulled from the earth.

Hope to add to the setup as I can,
wantomake

[level]

**************

[clarence]

Hello Clarence. It has been pointed out to you on a few occasions already that when there is a ground loop when using the mains, that it is possible that a power meter at the input of the device may not correctly detect the actual power being used. If the ground loop bypasses the power meter, then the meter may possibly not properly measure the power drawn in the loop that is bypassing it, depending on the type of power meter being used. This is another reason why anyone serious about testing this type of device arrangement should only test with a battery and inverter. You could possibly get incorrect readings from a power meter, especially the little cheap consumer plug in types, but measuring the battery terminal voltage while it is under load and the battery DC current being drawn from the battery into an inverter, should be a pretty reliable measurement of the true power being drawn from the battery, as long as these battery measurements are done properly with a decent meter.

It is interesting that Barbosa and Leal had all their equipment confiscated because they were found to have one or more proprietary utility power company meters in their possession. It seems at least possible they were testing with the utility company power meters to try to find ways to fool the meters. I am not saying that is necessarily what they were doing, but that is certainly a possibility.

The bottom line is if someone is using the mains to power a Barbosa and Leal device, you just can't draw any conclusions about how that setup is really performing and where the power is really coming from. A battery and inverter eliminate all the ambiguity around using the mains as a power source with this sort of setup, and so that is really the only reasonable way to test this type of setup. You should also only rely on a measurement of the battery voltage and battery current drawn as a reliable measurement of battery load when powering loads with this setup, as the cheapo plug in power meters that plug into a socket on your inverter could possibly give you misleading results. The battery voltage and current draw measurements while under load should be a good reliable check to determine actual battery power draw.

Another very simple quick reality check is if the Barbosa and Leal setup 'works' when plugged into the mains, but does not work the same at all when powered from a battery and inverter, then very obviously the extra power seen when powering from the mains is coming from the mains.

I am pointing these things out for people who are truly interested in trying to determine how things really are working when testing a Barbosa and Leal setup. Those who are only looking to deceive themself or others are free to ignore these points.

YOUR WISH IS GRANTED!
you are ignored!

Clarence

[level]

Every single one of them are TOTALLY SELF OBLIVIOUS to the FACT that B&L
designed their units TO BE POWERED FROM THE MAINS of CEMAR UTILITY POWER COMPANY. KNOWING AHEAD OF TIME ONLY A SMALL AMOUNT OF WATTS WOULD BE DRAWN TO BE THE "ELECTROMAGNETIC EXCITER"
FOR THEIR UNITS AND POSSIBLE PHASE NEEDS. THEY ALSO USED THE UTILITY SYSTEM GROUND ROD ITSELF AND PLACED IT IN THE CENTER OF THEIR LOOPED SERIES OF EARTH RETURN GROUND RODS. HA! HA!

Hello Clarence. It has been pointed out to you on a few occasions already that when there is a ground loop when using the mains, that it is possible that a power meter at the input of the device may not correctly detect the actual power being used. If the ground loop bypasses the power meter, then the meter may possibly not properly measure the power drawn in the loop that is bypassing it, depending on the type of power meter being used. This is another reason why anyone serious about testing this type of device arrangement should only test with a battery and inverter. You could possibly get incorrect readings from a power meter, especially the little cheap consumer plug in types, but measuring the battery terminal voltage while it is under load and the battery DC current being drawn from the battery into an inverter, should be a pretty reliable measurement of the true power being drawn from the battery, as long as these battery measurements are done properly with a decent meter.

It is interesting that Barbosa and Leal had all their equipment confiscated because they were found to have one or more proprietary utility power company meters in their possession. It seems at least possible they were testing with the utility company power meters to try to find ways to fool the meters. I am not saying that is necessarily what they were doing, but that is certainly a possibility.

The bottom line is if someone is using the mains to power a Barbosa and Leal device, you just can't draw any conclusions about how that setup is really performing and where the power is really coming from. A battery and inverter eliminate all the ambiguity around using the mains as a power source with this sort of setup, and so that is really the only reasonable way to test this type of setup. You should also only rely on a measurement of the battery voltage and battery current drawn as a reliable measurement of battery load when powering loads with this setup, as the cheapo plug in power meters that plug into a socket on your inverter could possibly give you misleading results. The battery voltage and current draw measurements while under load should be a good reliable check to determine actual battery power draw.

Another very simple quick reality check is if the Barbosa and Leal setup 'works' when plugged into the mains, but does not work the same at all when powered from a battery and inverter, then very obviously the extra power seen when powering from the mains is coming from the mains.

I am pointing these things out for people who are truly interested in trying to determine how things really are working when testing a Barbosa and Leal setup. Those who are only looking to deceive themself or others are free to ignore these points.

[clarence]

Clarence, I discovered your good work over on that other thread, and followed your trail to here when the lunatics overcame the asylum over there.

I just want to say, thanks, thanks, thanks for your good work and your report of it. for many years I have been optimistically looking for free energy in the field of mechanical systems, also including the use of magnets or electrostatic components. My work has NOT been completely fruitless, though it is not yet exactly the right circumstances for me to make any announcements.

Your work is immensely reassuring. What would really get the party started is if it could be scaled way down so that even a poor boy like me could buy $1.98 worth of parts and prove the principle for himself on a small scale before spending big money (for a poor boy) to build the real thing.

My practical electrical and electronic expertise is very small. I am urgently hoping that somebody who knows their volt from their amp will design a LITTLE demonstration device that might only make 10 watts, or 1, but will do it reliably and undeniably.


Best regards and God bless you!
CANGAS

Hello CANGAS,

Just a reminder not to fear the lunatics on this thread.
that's exactly what I meant when I said they would be lurking in the shadows
itching for the chance to run out and make their "bear in the woods usual crap pile" .

Every single one of them are TOTALLY SELF OBLIVIOUS to the FACT that B&L
designed their units TO BE POWERED FROM THE MAINS of CEMAR UTILITY POWER COMPANY. KNOWING AHEAD OF TIME ONLY A SMALL AMOUNT OF WATTS WOULD BE DRAWN TO BE THE "ELECTROMAGNETIC EXCITER"
FOR THEIR UNITS AND POSSIBLE PHASE NEEDS. THEY ALSO USED THE UTILITY SYSTEM GROUND ROD ITSELF AND PLACED IT IN THE CENTER OF THEIR LOOPED SERIES OF EARTH RETURN GROUND RODS. HA! HA!

ITS AMAZING how FACTS like that just blow right past their knuckleheads!
but just consider the source and ignore the hell out of the BULL CRAP.
you can discern the handles of those who possess such self induced
ignorance by the previous group of posts that were made by them. put them on your ignore list and move forward. they never even knew they were being drawn out purposely so you could spot them when the time came! HA! HA!

as I said before when the time comes I will arrange what you were after.

THANKS ,
and respects

Clarence

[clarence]

I actually spend many hours of my free time experimenting with all sorts of free energy ideas and circuits. Have done so for years. It is you who said you have a working device that you wanted to share here. So if you want anyone to take you seriously you can either provide some details on how it performs or continue as you have been doing here by deflecting and making excuses. Enough silliness already. If you had a working setup you would have done the simple tests and provided the performance results a long time ago. Period.

Keep waiting on your SILLINESS TEST/ICLES!
they will NEVER come!

Clarence

[level]

STILL same old song and dance - you want OTHERS to do the work and THEN have the unmitigated GALL to want them to submit to you the results of THEIR WORK! all while you sit back on a do-nothing butt.
don't ever wait on anything from me - it's for sure you'll pass without it!
Clarence

I actually spend many hours of my free time experimenting with all sorts of free energy ideas and circuits. Have done so for years. It is you who said you have a working device that you wanted to share here. So if you want anyone to take you seriously you can either provide some details on how it performs or continue as you have been doing here by deflecting and making excuses. Enough silliness already. If you had a working setup you would have done the simple tests and provided the performance results a long time ago. Period.

[clarence]

Unfortunately just more deflection when asked to provide some details of how your claimed 'working' setup actually performs. You can't reasonably expect people to spend big money to replicate your setup when you won't provide a single detail on how your setup actually performs in a long term test using the battery. Again, your tests using the mains are meaningless. If you have a working setup, please provide some long term performance results using the battery and inverter, otherwise it is just more pixie dust.

Clarence, imagine if I said to you that I have a working free energy device that will cost you two thousand dollars to replicate, but I won't provide any details of how it actually performs. Would you just want to blindly believe me before shelling out two thousand dollars, or would you want to have details first of how my device actually performs in some proper long term tests? I think we both know the answer to this question. You don't really know me at all , so of course you have have no way of judging if what I am saying is true without further details. Please stop and think. It is of course not in any way against you for people to ask for long term performance test details. It is just basic common sense. Without such details you are just another guy amongst many claiming they have a working free energy device, but, so far at least, not willing to demonstrate or share even some basic performance test results.

STILL same old song and dance - you want OTHERS to do the work and THEN have the unmitigated GALL to want them to submit to you the results of THEIR WORK! all while you sit back on a do-nothing butt.

don't ever wait on anything from me - it's for sure you'll pass without it!

Clarence

[level]

If you have to use mains supply whats the point , It's what I'm trying to get away from.
artv

Hello shylo. Also, if it only 'works' when powered from the mains, but not when powered from a battery and inverter, then the power is obviously coming from the mains itself.

[level]

The only SUCH NONSENSE comes from your self centered deceiving self and all of its BULL CRAP contained there in so put the brakes on yourself!
Clarence

Unfortunately just more deflection when asked to provide some details of how your claimed 'working' setup actually performs. You can't reasonably expect people to spend big money to replicate your setup when you won't provide a single detail on how your setup actually performs in a long term test using the battery. Again, your tests using the mains are meaningless. If you have a working setup, please provide some long term performance results using the battery and inverter, otherwise it is just more pixie dust.

Clarence, imagine if I said to you that I have a working free energy device that will cost you two thousand dollars to replicate, but I won't provide any details of how it actually performs. Would you just want to blindly believe me before shelling out two thousand dollars, or would you want to have details first of how my device actually performs in some proper long term tests? I think we both know the answer to this question. You don't really know me at all , so of course you have have no way of judging if what I am saying is true without further details. Please stop and think. It is of course not in any way against you for people to ask for long term performance test details. It is just basic common sense. Without such details you are just another guy amongst many claiming they have a working free energy device, but, so far at least, not willing to demonstrate or share even some basic performance test results.

[shylo]

If you have to use mains supply whats the point , It's what I'm trying to get away from.
artv

[citfta]

GANGAS,

If you really want to try this and feel you have to use mains power as suggested by Clarence then you MUST use an isolation transformer. If you do not use an isolation transformer then your tests will mean absolutely nothing. As has already been pointed out using mains power directly just causes a ground loop effect because the neutral side of your mains power is already connected to ground. Using an isolation transformer allows you to work around this problem.

Clarence I am surprised that someone with your experience would suggest to someone to use mains power to experiment with after they have already said they know very little about electricity. Are you trying to get someone killed? Don't you have any sense of moral responsibility? If you are going to suggest such a thing thing at least tell them how to do it safely and in a way that will give them useful results.

Hello GANGAS,

I admire your serious attitude for certain.
Your definition of the lunatics overcoming the asylum was on point.

the only way to achieve a tiny version would be by using mains power in order to get a 1.98 unit and even that would cost a little more than 1.98
but I get your point!
the other danger lurking in the shadows would be the mile-a-minute el-chepo
do nothing whiney mouths jumping in to splatter the thread with their usual
"bear in the woods" donation.

this week I am finishing my cart unit re-build and then I will do what you speak of just out of curiosity for my self. I already know how to do it it's just a matter of taking the time to do it.
as always , time will tell all.

Thanks for your interest,
Best Wishes, and Respects

Clarence

Carroll

[clarence]

Bs program

You are still advising people to use the mains after it has been explained many times that the power comes from the mains via a ground loop when doing so. Please stop trying to deceive people with such nonsense.

The only SUCH NONSENSE comes from your self centered deceiving self and
all of its BULL CRAP contained there in so put the brakes on yourself!

Clarence

[level]

THE ONLY THING THAT IS DECEIVED IS YOU!
you can find a true deceiver when you go look in the mirror!
I have a unit that REALLY works and all you have is the same old BULL ****!
Clarence

You are still advising people to use the mains after it has been explained many times that the power comes from the mains via a ground loop when doing so in this type of arrangement with the hot wire connected directly to one side of the load. Please stop trying to deceive people with such nonsense. Don't anyone be fooled. Clarence was asked very politely on several occasions in this thread to provide some very simple test results so people here could get an idea how his setup is actually performing, and Clarence either ignored the requests or insulted those making the requests. Obviously if his setup was really working Clarence would have just performed the simple tests and provided the details of the results to the members here. There is just no gettting around that. Clarence if you have a 'working' setup, then provide the simple tests results. Otherwise you have to realize that no reasonable person would have any reason to think that you have any sort of working device. If you are willing to give details on how to assemble your setup, there is no reason you wouldn't provide details on how it actually performs in some simple and proper tests.