Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[clarence]

Off grid

Wantomake ,

Whe you do get your setup ready for Battery/Inverter ready then let me know and I will do the battery/inverter thing on this end and we can then compare notes as we had planned in the past some time ago.

Thanks J,

Clarence

[level]

Hello wantomake. That's great that you are approaching it all with an open mind and are not making assumptions! The test I mentioned is suggested as a straight forward way to be able to monitor the performance of the setup. To see how the setup is really performing at any given point in time. So even if you don't have a whole bunch of ground rods, you could still run the test to see what your efficiency is right now with your current setup.

Let's say the efficiency is 75% now, then say if you later added a few more ground rods or made other changes to your setup you could then repeat the exact same test and see how much difference it makes to the efficiency. You will have a clear indicator if the performance improved or not, and exactly by how much the efficiency changed. Efficiency in percent equals the power out divided by the power in, times 100. If someone is getting a fair bit over 100% efficiency and they did the measurements right, then that would seem to indicate over unity. You may have hit the mother lode at that point. Good luck!

[clarence]

Brazil tests

AS my last post said I have attached the Photos of B & L themselves doing their test in Brazil MANY years ago.

Of particular importance is the photo of the Meter that was BORROWED from CEMAR the Utility Company that supplies power in Brazil. the meter was later returned to the company after the tests.

Also of particular importance are the BLACK and BLUE feed wires in and out.The ones in come from a WALL plug-in that can be seen on the wall of the carport.
the ones out go to their two units as the schematic shows.
It's all basically the same unit I have.

Have a look and see!

Enjoy,

Clarence`

[digits10]

12gauge blue wire winding

Clarence
Is it important for the 12gauge wire looping through the toroids to be mulistrand tinned, or is single solid copper ok? I've got the other on order, but I have 12 gauge solid on hand. Can't wait to get started but don't want to do everything twice. You've already done that many times over, so thanks for that!

[clarence]

Clarence,
Sorry, maybe too much coffee and not enough sleep.

Question my ole friend, you using the 150 volt GDT? I tried the 90 volt GDT when testing the inverter/battery connection. But after connecting a second load to the setup that 90 volt heated up to like 120°+ real quick.
I'm sure it's because my ground grid (dirt) is too small and it tried to do that "fool the meter thing".
That test proved more the extracting of energy from mother earth.

Work (part time retired), life, and the preppers, I can't get caught up here. Yes the end of the world is near cause of the crazies in North Korea. Not my view point of course.

My brains and energy is stretch thin these days !!!!!
wantomake

Wantomake,

Yes J, I use the 150 volt GDT. It's ONLY point in the system is as a Component Safety feature in case of voltage surges - lightning strikes close in the area, etc. It is NOT supposed to conduct AT ALL until until one of the previous mentioned over voltages occur.
THAT is WHY it MUST HAVE A HIGHER volt rating than the feed in power to the system.
I don't say MAINS anymore So D A Level doesn't keep throwing his left TIT over his shoulder. That is an annoying A H if ever there was one. He keeps chewing on his moldy old bone about Over Unity. He needs to get a GRIP!
There is NOTHING ABOUT THE B&L SYSTEM that can be construed as
OVER UNITY.

In my next post I'm going to attach some photos of B&L themselves doing their Tests with CEMAR Utility Company agents in Brazil.

It will SHOW their system using a SMALL amount of amperage input while EXTRACTING very very MUCH MORE from the ground.

It will also show the SMALL amount of amperage in BEING PROVIDED BY
CEMAR - the Brazil Utility Company. Let that OLD BONE be chewed for awhile!

Thanks J,

Clarence

[wantomake]

OU

Level,
Thanks for starting this thread by the way. And good of you to remind everyone to be careful with this setup.

As for overunity, I've not mentioned that word here. I've only posted what my meter and clamp have shown. I do know how to test the output from the battery and thanks for that. As I posted my ground grid is only 5 rods so I can only get .4 amps from my inverter but also the same from the green ground grid wire .4 amps. When I get to my shop I'll take measurements as you stated. But without the full 26 rods in the ground, what's the help in that?

Clarence and I totally understand the getting fooled by this looping back to the neutral of the mains grid. I went as far as to just quit completely with this setup because of being fooled by that "looping".

No I think of you as helping here not debunking. I'm here to learn and grow.

But I feel like proper understanding and measurements can't be done without the complete build.

wantomake

[level]

By the way, I am the guy who started this thread. I am open minded about over unity and do my own experimenting. I am not a debunker in any way. Don't listen to BroMikey. He is off in his own world. He seems to enjoy attacking anyone he doesn't agree with.

If a B&L type setup can produce over unity, then that is great. However, due to issues with potential ground loops back to the mains, if you don't take the steps I have described above when testing this sort of setup, you can easily be fooled as to what is really going on. The question people should ask them self is are you really interested in understanding if there might be over unity there or not? If so, I would suggest you read what I wrote in my comments above about how to properly test this kind of setup. You need to be clear on what the potential issues are with this sort of setup and how to avoid them if you want to really understand how things are working. Most important of all, be safe.

[wantomake]

Wantomake,

Appreciate the VERY helpful AND clear information to all!!!!!!

The message should be help-full to ALL concerned.

Thanks much Ole friend!

Clarence

Clarence,
Sorry, maybe too much coffee and not enough sleep.

Question my ole friend, you using the 150 volt GDT? I tried the 90 volt GDT when testing the inverter/battery connection. But after connecting a second load to the setup that 90 volt heated up to like 120°+ real quick.
I'm sure it's because my ground grid (dirt) is too small and it tried to do that "fool the meter thing".
That test proved more the extracting of energy from mother earth.

Work (part time retired), life, and the preppers, I can't get caught up here. Yes the end of the world is near cause of the crazies in North Korea. Not my view point of course.

My brains and energy is stretch thin these days !!!!!
wantomake

[level]

Clarence and all you others,

The main point here to All - we are measuring the amp "draw", amount, or however you term it, on the "green" return from earth,dirt, wire and the amp probe or fluke meter shows amperage. After two years of failed tests, setups, ideas, monies, failures, you name it; Clarence and I know what we see.

Hello wantomake. The B&L circuit incorporates an earth ground loop so it is a given that there will be current flowing through the ground wire. That is expected and in no way indicates over unity is or is not occurring. Earth is a conductor, so it will conduct current. The more ground rods you have in an array, the lower the earth resistance losses should be, and the more current that can be conducted. Measuring current on the ground wire should happen whether you are using the mains or a battery and inverter.

I demonstrated this early on in this thread by lighting a light bulb using only the mains hot wire going to a light bulb, going to a very short rusty ground rod. The current was flowing through the ground from the short ground rod back to the grounded neutral at the house.
http://www.energeticforum.com/274649-post433.html
Having a ground current is expected, since the B&L setup incorporates a ground loop.

How to properly test this kind of setup:
The simple way to see if there might be over unity is when powering with a battery and inverter, you want to measure the battery current on one of the battery lines going to the inverter using a clamp on current meter set to DC. If you measured say 10A, you would multiply the 10A by your battery voltage to get the power consumed from the battery. Then compare this input power to the approximate power of the load you are powering. Ideally you would also measure the exact power the load is consuming as well to be sure, but for a quick test you can just do an estimate if you know what you are doing, to get a general idea how your circuit is performing. You don't want to use the mains for this type of testing because the neutral wire on the mains is typically grounded at the utility box in many countries, and you won't be able to tell what the real source of the power is in that case. If you ignore this and power from the mains, your tests won't likely tell you anything much useful.

Why am I bothering to mention this again here? Simply because the setup is not cheap, and I should also mention that using this type of setup there is a very real chance of getting bad shocks or electrocuted if you touch the wrong thing. I would suggest newcomers read through the earlier part of this thread from the beginning to get the history on this. Basically, the bottom line is if you are using the mains to power the setup, you can't say anything definite about whether there might be over unity or not. You need to use a battery and inverter and do the very simple test I have described to test for over unity. It doesn't get any more straight forward and simpler than that.

[clarence]

Bravo !

Clarence and all you others,
This is only my results and I'll try to be clear as I can.

First understand I've not installed the "ground" ,mother earth , dirt, grid of 26 rods yet. I only have 5 copper coated grounding rods in place. And the connecting wires between each rod is too small.

But being the back yard FE hobbist that I am, there's no limit to what this coffee induced brain will attempt.

I did connect this above described setup to my 2k inverter (non-utility mains) with 2 parallel connected marine batteries.

As I posted, no tripping occurred and it pulled a little more voltage than from the utility mains. Also amperage was detected on the green return ground grid wire. This was the first time ever to see this result.

The main point here to All - we are measuring the amp "draw", amount, or however you term it, on the "green" return from earth,dirt, wire and the amp probe or fluke meter shows amperage. After two years of failed tests, setups, ideas, monies, failures, you name it; Clarence and I know what we see.

That's how you know. You build it and test it. All has been posted here. Build it and help us understand how to improve this setup. There are many smarter than myself here, so please help.

wantomake
PS My coffee and I will finish this morning in peace and thought.

After

Wantomake,

Appreciate the VERY helpful AND clear information to all!!!!!!

The message should be help-full to ALL concerned.

Thanks much Ole friend!

Clarence

[wantomake]

Just my results

Clarence and all you others,
This is only my results and I'll try to be clear as I can.

First understand I've not installed the "ground" ,mother earth , dirt, grid of 26 rods yet. I only have 5 copper coated grounding rods in place. And the connecting wires between each rod is too small.

But being the back yard FE hobbist that I am, there's no limit to what this coffee induced brain will attempt.

I did connect this above described setup to my 2k inverter (non-utility mains) with 2 parallel connected marine batteries.

As I posted, no tripping occurred and it pulled a little more voltage than from the utility mains. Also amperage was detected on the green return ground grid wire. This was the first time ever to see this result.

The main point here to All - we are measuring the amp "draw", amount, or however you term it, on the "green" return from earth,dirt, wire and the amp probe or fluke meter shows amperage. After two years of failed tests, setups, ideas, monies, failures, you name it; Clarence and I know what we see.

That's how you know. You build it and test it. All has been posted here. Build it and help us understand how to improve this setup. There are many smarter than myself here, so please help.

wantomake
PS My coffee and I will finish this morning in peace and thought.

[Coil]

Clarence

Thanks very much for clearing that issue.

Regards
Coil

[clarence]

Right!

Hello Clarence. Well I did check in once in a while, but just not so recently until now. If you think about it, using a battery and inverter as the power source instead of the mains should really not make any difference at all as far as powering something like a heater or toaster, but this would allow you to measure the current draw from the battery and see what the actual power consumption is when powering a load. Anyway, I hear you that you still are strongly resistant to doing such a simple test to see what is really going on, so I'll leave you with it.

If you are just throwing the power meter off (depends on the type of power meter you have) by just going from the mains hot to your earth ground rod array and bypassing the neutral wire, the power company may still detect it and that could get you in trouble with the power company, but you probably already know that.

Yeah-Right! Ha! Ha!

Clarence

[clarence]

Gfci

Hello Clarence & All
I viewed this setup from a different angle…not what the toroid transformers is putting in to the output side, but rather what it is doing to the input and more specifically to the GFCI. (Ground fault circuit interrupter).
The way that the toroid transformers are configured and connected is to prevent the GFCI from tripping. I think that:
1. The blue coil isn’t doing anything…. Or else preventing the GFCI from tripping.
2. Disconnecting any of the toroid transformer legs will cause the GFCI to trip.
3. Bypassing the hot wire on the GFCI and connecting the load to earth and hot will do the same as before.
4. The GFCI is not as safe as before.
I may be wrong….
Respectfully
Coil

Coil,

First of all my setup does not have a GFCI in it.
It is simply plugged into a wall outlet.
The 150 volt GDT serves as the safety feature- for voltage surges, lighting strikes, etc.
A direct connection to ground WILL cause the Breaker to trip.
I did disconnect Both of the toroid neutral legs and the system still runs as before HOWEVER when a sizable load
is placed on the system the BLUE wire Loop DOES SHOW increased Amperage THRU IT ALSO. The thought that it does nothing at all is you know what.
With the system reconnected as should be the lenz-less oscillation of the loop
THROUGH the ground return DOES enhance (PUMP) the energy from the ground. So it truly does serve it's purpose .

Clarence

[clarence]

Hello swamig

Hello SwamiG,

I see your forum approval finally went thru!

Good for you!

Now I won't have to send you the e-mail - Bravo!

Now go back and look at the recent thumbnail photos and you can see and look at everything.

Beautiful!

Clarence