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  • #76
    Can you explain what you mean by Magamp. I am asking because I see a lot of confusion on this forum about what a magamp really is and what it really does. I worked as an industrial maintenance electronic tech for over 25 years and worked on several magamps. A magamp (magnetic amplifier) as used in industry is a special transformer that allows you to control a large current by using a very small current to control the saturation of the transformer. They will put out exactly the same kind of signal you put into one. They do not produce a sine wave unless the control current is a sine wave. And they do not produce any extra power. They are just like a water faucet that controls the flow of water. You have to supply the large current but it can be controlled by a small current.

    I agree with you that there seems to be some confusion about how much power it takes to make this thing work. But a simple way to test this first would be to just use a transformer so that the connection to ground is isolated from the mains power. Then the biggest expense will be for all the ground rods and heavy wiring you need for the loop circuit. Then if it seems this system works you could always buy an inverter and battery. Or as someone has suggested if it doesn't take a lot of power a UPS might eliminate some of the extra expense and parts.


    Originally posted by kenssurplus View Post
    If this is indeed true, then I don't see why there needs to be a high capacity pure sine wave inverter, if a pure sine wave can be produced by starting with a cheaper modified square wave inverter and then run that into a Rotoverter or a MagAmp. The outputs from these, If I understand correctly, are putting out pure sine wave from whatever type wave is input into them.
    If the "electron trap" needs only a very small amount of power, then why the need for the high capacity inverter? Perhaps I have missed something or not understood.
    Carroll
    Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.

    Comment


    • #77
      The Mazzilli circuit puts out a nice sine wave, easy circuit.
      If you invest and cant get it working you still have two nice toroids and other equipment that can be used on other projects.

      Rigid copper tubing would make a good ground, may be a little expensive but might be worth a shot.

      I will be gathering parts as time and money allows.
      Thanks Clarence
      Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by citfta View Post
        Can you explain what you mean by Magamp. I am asking because I see a lot of confusion on this forum about what a magamp really is and what it really does. I worked as an industrial maintenance electronic tech for over 25 years and worked on several magamps. A magamp (magnetic amplifier) as used in industry is a special transformer that allows you to control a large current by using a very small current to control the saturation of the transformer. They will put out exactly the same kind of signal you put into one. They do not produce a sine wave unless the control current is a sine wave. And they do not produce any extra power. They are just like a water faucet that controls the flow of water. You have to supply the large current but it can be controlled by a small current.

        I agree with you that there seems to be some confusion about how much power it takes to make this thing work. But a simple way to test this first would be to just use a transformer so that the connection to ground is isolated from the mains power. Then the biggest expense will be for all the ground rods and heavy wiring you need for the loop circuit. Then if it seems this system works you could always buy an inverter and battery. Or as someone has suggested if it doesn't take a lot of power a UPS might eliminate some of the extra expense and parts.




        Carroll
        Hello citfta,

        In B&LS last video demonstration to the public their updated system was a UPS system that had its inherent - battery bank - dedicated circuits -
        charger - sensors - etc..

        when the system was started it was powered up by the battery bank and after about 30 seconds the sensors by passed the battery bank and the captor power routed around the inverter and on to power the loads they placed on it. in that particular video the UPS monitor showed three phase as they were demonstrating light bulbs AND a three phase motor being powered. and all of this was accomplished from the EARTH and none of it was from ANY mains what so ever. the video showed them moving their equipment and lifting it to show it was not attached to any thing except earth power. don't know if that video is still available on you tube or not but it was factual
        .
        I just checked and the one video I spoke of is gone but there is a very similar one that shows the UPS system they went to! plug in on search .. Nilson Barbosa e Cleriston Leal - YOU TUBE


        thanks .

        clarence
        Last edited by clarence; 04-15-2015, 12:55 AM. Reason: found info

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Dave45 View Post
          The Mazzilli circuit puts out a nice sine wave, easy circuit.
          If you invest and cant get it working you still have two nice toroids and other equipment that can be used on other projects.

          Rigid copper tubing would make a good ground, may be a little expensive but might be worth a shot.

          I will be gathering parts as time and money allows.
          Thanks Clarence
          I was going to mention rigid copper pipe a while back. A 10 foot length will actually cost less than an 8 foot copper ground rod if you buy the thinner wall type M and possibly even type L. You may even end up with more surface contact than a rod but I'm not sure if it would produce the same effect. It might even be easier to get in the ground using the water drill method but it does throw another variable into the setup Clarence has shown so try at your own risk. If you do decide to try using copper pipe I would hammer one end a bit so it's partly flat but still open enough to let water out and attach to a hose to make a good water drill.
          There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

          Comment


          • #80
            I have to say I dont understand why Clarence's unit didnt work as well in the rain, you would think it would work better since the wet ground is a better conductor, thats odd.

            My problem is I live about 2000 feet from a substation so I wont be able to test this system at home.

            Clarence have you tested your system in an isolated area, away from any grid grounds.
            Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question

            Comment


            • #81
              whoops wrong device

              Originally posted by citfta View Post
              Can you explain what you mean by Magamp. I am asking because I see a lot of confusion on this forum about what a magamp really is and what it really does. I worked as an industrial maintenance electronic tech for over 25 years and worked on several magamps. A magamp (magnetic amplifier) as used in industry is a special transformer that allows you to control a large current by using a very small current to control the saturation of the transformer. They will put out exactly the same kind of signal you put into one. They do not produce a sine wave unless the control current is a sine wave. And they do not produce any extra power. They are just like a water faucet that controls the flow of water. You have to supply the large current but it can be controlled by a small current.
              <snip>
              ......
              </snip>
              Or as someone has suggested if it doesn't take a lot of power a UPS might eliminate some of the extra expense and parts.

              Carroll
              Whoops, wrong device, I was thinking of a ferroresonant transformer. Well, at least their related. Please see:A Comparison of Ferroresonant and PWM Inverter Technologies

              The underlying principles of ferroresonant transformer technology have largely remained unchanged over the years. A Ferroresonant Inverter is commonly referred to as a "passive regulating device." A simple square wave generator applies power to the primary winding of a ferroresonant constant-voltage transformer. Since the transformer is designed to operate in the saturation range of its operating curve, resonance in conjunction with leakage reactance converts the square wave to a sine wave. In addition, because the transformer core is saturated, it provides inherent current limiting, noise rejection and output voltage regulation without the need for feedback elements and circuitry.
              I have both, and I suppose you could force the magamp into ferroresonance and obtain the same type output.
              Last edited by kenssurplus; 04-15-2015, 01:03 AM.

              Comment


              • #82
                All are valid interpretation and appreciated
                as a Diy experimenter we usually take the cheapest route
                a bunch of cable 2 toroids and water pipe or house grounding for a smaller scale just use normal power supply forget the battery charger and inverter
                now to look for junk amplifier toroids and thats it
                to test
                lots of ways to skin the cat including the mouse whatever

                enjoy enjoy experimenting

                totoalas

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Dave45 View Post
                  I have to say I dont understand why Clarence's unit didnt work as well in the rain, you would think it would work better since the wet ground is a better conductor, thats odd.

                  My problem is I live about 2000 feet from a substation so I wont be able to test this system at home.

                  Clarence have you tested your system in an isolated area, away from any grid grounds.
                  At first that seemed odd to me also but the water may tend to short out ground currents. While pure water is an insulator all it takes is a small amount of salt or impurity in water to turn it into a good conductor. Too much water may make input and return ground rods appear as one.
                  Last edited by ewizard; 04-15-2015, 01:17 AM. Reason: clarification on gnd. rods
                  There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by ewizard View Post
                    At first that seemed odd to me also but the water may tend to short out ground currents. While pure water is an insulator all it takes is a small amount of salt or impurity in water to turn it into a good conductor. Too much water may make the two sets of ground rods appear as one.
                    i agree we used 200 kilos ofsalt on 1 x 1 m galvanized plate on an 11 kv substation

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Too much water may make the two sets of ground rods appear as one.
                      could be.
                      Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Dave45 View Post
                        could be.
                        I corrected myself in saying that it may make the input and return appear as one so all the rest of the rods in series may not be seen as much but I know you got my reasoning. You just quoted me before I got it corrected.
                        There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Dave45 View Post
                          I have to say I dont understand why Clarence's unit didnt work as well in the rain, you would think it would work better since the wet ground is a better conductor, thats odd.

                          My problem is I live about 2000 feet from a substation so I wont be able to test this system at home.

                          Clarence have you tested your system in an isolated area, away from any grid grounds.
                          Hi Dave

                          Could you please read this Stubblefield

                          This fellow did not collect energy from a substation to get power.

                          Stating that you feel that a substation might be needed in your area to run a B&L device lends to the idea of stealing power from the grid. Were you aware that using grid grounds change the entire scheme competely.

                          Yet the Patent office did issue them a Patent confirming no siphoning from the grid took place. When the Patent office issues a Patent they don't leave the tests to uneducated folks, those guys are smart. Maybe sometimes they can miss things, I don't know.

                          The Earth carries far more current than any grid tie could. The question many have is "where am I getting my extra power"???

                          Also to answer these questions and more review the YOUTUBE materials because both tests are being made, one experiment showing one set of data that gets power from the power company without paying for it by bypassing the meters.

                          If the B&L data is followed along with Clarence help we might get some extra joules so if you don't smoke or drink and can't save money that way then use a UPS box as I had stated early on in this thread. As we are seeing these days money is tight and if you are living on bread and water a $700 inverter is hard to get.

                          I eat to much anyway so maybe I could save a pack price of hotdogs per week and I would be skinny. Even paying all the taxes and insurance cost too much.

                          Another thing I was pondering was the 10awg primaries on the two toroidal's. The inverter connects to power the primary so those primaries need somewhere around 200 feet of wire on them. Can you calculate that for me? I just wound a core look at this Silicon Steel Toroidal Cores - In Stock

                          Also this is the core information Toroidal Core PN# 140 | PN# 140


                          Or was it this one? I think it was a toss up and I got the 130's and you will notice it calls for 13awg not 12awg like the 140 part number

                          Toroidal Core PN# 130 | PN# 130

                          I don't remember for sure but that time I called tech on the phone and they said yes use 14awg is fine. Their tech dept is great.


                          I put 166 turns on it of 14awg wire that went all of the way around the circle but this winding job requires that the wire be put on half the circle and 10awg is way thicker. I am wondering if this is right thinking.

                          Does that sound good to you? That is "Alpha-Core". And I didn't see the proper suggested material on exactly which core so someone can tell me if this is a good core or I will keep reading.

                          This number 140 core at Alpha Direct is the last in their series for 117vac so I put 14awg on it as one plug from my house can only handle that much, however the inverters can produce 2X or 3X or 4X a single wall outlet.

                          10awg is heavy. I need to dig up the resistance values and find out what the primary winding number of turns is for 10AWG magwire.

                          Mikey PS don't take any wooden nickels
                          Last edited by BroMikey; 04-15-2015, 03:03 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Stating that you feel that a substation might be needed in your area to run a B&L device lends to the idea of stealing power from the grid. Were you aware that using grid grounds change the entire scheme competely.
                            Hey Mike
                            I wasnt saying a substation was needed I was saying I live close to one and Im afraid it may interfere with any test I do here.

                            The only way to be sure this or any ground system is not pulling from the grid would be to move the system to a very isolated area.

                            But then again once the grid power passes through a load and into ground it should be up for grabs, unless the government owns that too, they own the water in the sky and the air we breath, their even going to tax us for farting.

                            Folks had better start listening to Ron Paul
                            Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Dave45 View Post
                              Hey Mike
                              I wasnt saying a substation was needed .................................................. .................................................. ................... unless the government owns that too, they own the water in the sky and the air we breath, their even going to tax us for farting.

                              Folks had better start listening to Ron Paul
                              Bout it they act like they own you why not the air we breath

                              Another thing was that I think I paid $30 each for the 2 cores and the wire was about $10 worth of 14awg magnet wire. The way I did it was to take all of the spokes out a a scooter rim, split it and used grey tape to connect it back together after I got it through the toroidal. Then I counted the feet I need and rolled it up onto the rim while on the toroidal from a 870 foot spool.

                              Maybe a little over 100 feet? Can't remember but all you do is count the inches around the core per loop and add.

                              Next I reversed direction and put that wire from the rim onto the core. First i put PVC tape all over the blank core. It was the cheapest way for me and I can do this anytime.

                              Mikey PS you are a free man so don't let the propaganda horn swaggle ya.
                              Last edited by BroMikey; 04-15-2015, 01:52 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Dave45 View Post
                                Hey Mike
                                I wasnt saying a substation was needed I was saying I live close to one and Im afraid it may interfere with any test I do here.

                                The only way to be sure this or any ground system is not pulling from the grid would be to move the system to a very isolated area.

                                Somehow i am not so sure about that statement because from what I am reading and seeing from others who make tests, the currents from the substation change the energy flows entirely. In other words, like apples and oranges big difference.

                                You would know the difference once you built one because there are fluxuations with the B&L system and if you were accidentally tied into the grid it would never change. To do that you need grid power using the grid ground or you will not connect to their system.

                                Good to see you back in full color.

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