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  • clarence
    replied
    Mains setup - with gdt and run cap

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Clarence,
    Ok tgen I'll connect it to tge mains tomorrow and run the same tests.

    So are you still using this setup like a Utility Company? How are you setup now?

    Yes I'm using an inverter and battery power.

    wantomake
    Wantomake,

    Here is the present Mains set up. Powered by a 20 amp mains wall outlet/extension cord.
    Without the 5 mf Run capacitor between the GDT and the Ground wire return
    this circuit will Auto trip the breaker. ?
    This Cap setup is also needed for a batt/inverter route ( PLUS a neutral ground rod INPUT) to keep the inverter from Auto trip also.

    Basically it's a Fool the Meter layout - at present I use Two HEAVY DUTY
    drop cards to power my Fridge (green cord) and my microwave oven (yellow cord). NONE of the power load is reflected through the mains meter.
    Will only do this until trials are over!
    As far as I can tell not having a Capacitor in this manner is what prevented
    the Ariovaldo unit from working - Everything Else is all the same - EXACTLY!

    However will still keep working to get the Captor thing understood with a reasonable explanation of does it WORK or NOT?

    Sat with daughter in law on patio this PM and had some good coffee!!!!!
    NICE NICE NICE!

    Hope you can get yours working J, the mains thing is a lot easier to get a whole lot of trials done in a shorter time space - Time is everything (cept for lots'a Joe) .

    Clarence
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    One dollar for your thoughts

    Originally posted by clarence View Post
    Wantomake,

    Are you using Mains ( I am) or Batt/ Inverter AND do you have a Neutral Ground INPUT from the inverter.
    A batt/Inverter system REPRESENTS a UTILITY COMPANY so it MUST have a
    neutral input to earth SAME as A Utility Company DOES.

    A GDT will only HEAT as loads are added if it is placed DIRECTLY betweenl
    the neutral and LOAD and HOT lead. It won't even know or care whether there is a connection to ground.

    Make your system like a Utility Company and then the heat should go away.

    My 2 cents.

    Need to spend a dollar on coffee first tho - Ha Ha.

    Just a little joke J. !

    Clarence
    Clarence,
    Ok then I'll connect it to the mains tomorrow and run the same tests.

    So are you still using this setup like a Utility Company? How are you setup now?

    Yes I'm using an inverter and battery power.

    wantomake
    Last edited by wantomake; 07-25-2017, 11:56 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    Mains? Or batt inverter powered

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    To All,
    Just connected the 90 volt GDT to the setup and the 100 watt load light up like it should. Pulling .5 amp from the setup.

    But I disconnected the green ground grid wire and there was not gain or loss of power. I found no amp pull coming from the green ground grid wire with my amp clamp and Fluke meter. Amperage on the loop is 67 amps. There's amps on the green wire wrapped two times around the loop.

    Therefore I am open to any suggestions.

    wantomake
    EDIT: The GDT heats up faster as add more load to the system.
    Wantomake,

    Are you using Mains ( I am) or Batt/ Inverter AND do you have a Neutral Ground INPUT from the inverter.
    A batt/Inverter system REPRESENTS a UTILITY COMPANY so it MUST have a
    neutral input to earth SAME as A Utility Company DOES.

    A GDT will only HEAT as loads are added if it is placed DIRECTLY betweenl
    the neutral and LOAD and HOT lead. It won't even know or care whether there is a connection to ground.

    Make your system like a Utility Company and then the heat should go away.

    My 2 cents.

    Need to spend a dollar on coffee first tho - Ha Ha.

    Just a little joke J. !

    Clarence

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    90 volt GDT

    To All,
    Just connected the 90 volt GDT to the setup and the 100 watt load light up like it should. Pulling .5 amp from the setup.

    But I disconnected the green ground grid wire and there was not gain or loss of power. I found no amp pull coming from the green ground grid wire with my amp clamp and Fluke meter. Amperage on the loop is 67 amps. There's amps on the green wire wrapped two times around the loop.

    Therefore I am open to any suggestions.

    wantomake
    EDIT: The GDT heats up faster as add more load to the system.

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Progress

    Clarence and All,
    Well I did get some things re-done on the setup in spite of the heat.

    To confirm what was posted earlier, after making the loop larger around the coil there is an increase of amps. From 56 to 66.7+amps. So I went back to the old Ariovaldo pictures from OU, and found the overhead picture showing the coil and captor. Sorry can't post that photo using this 2nd generation Kindle fire tablet. But there is a gap there in the photo between coil and loop.

    I used 1/2" sized dowels to hold the loop around the coil about 8" diameter. Also the 2' x 2' x 3/4" plywood gives plenty of space to add the block terminals, switches, and outlet receptacle.

    Today is new day with good coffee and the three GDT's should be here via USPS this afternoon.

    wantomake
    Last edited by wantomake; 07-24-2017, 11:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Did you say "coffee"?

    Originally posted by clarence View Post
    Wantomake,

    Morning Sir! Should say a Good Coffee morning for sure!
    I have some extra on hand scrap multi-strand high AWG wire . So for this interim time I am going to be doing as many types of Thought-up ground return wire wraps on the Captor Coil as possible. The Toroid core and 660
    coil will be totally disconnected for all of this time.
    Now's the time to play so this ole boy is going to love it!
    Will make written notes to myself and then get back to you when I run out
    of ways to wrap. Last thing I tried Showed an increase of induction transfer to the DEAD Captor coil from the previous .2 amps to a new .3 amps.
    Will see how high an induction transfer between the two I can build.

    Have a good sip or two J.

    Clarence
    Clarence,
    You took the sip right out of my mouth!!

    On my second cup, so can't guaranty any smart notes here.


    Yes, that's some of the tests I tried. Different types wraps with different awg's. But all my tests and notes are no good cause I have the wrong size GDT's.

    A relief really cause I wanted this project to be something for all to be able to use.

    I'll be replacing the base of my project with some 3/4" plywood today. And using 1/2" dowels to hold the 1 ought 10 foot loop. I have found out if I place the loop 2" away from the coil, make the loop larger, there is a increase from 56 amps to 70+ amps in the loop. I will confirm that today to be sure.

    I also need to replace the ground return (green wire) because I'm using 12 or 14 awg right now. I've a old thick drop cord that I'll try. It has three about same size wires inside it.

    All of this is contingent on me not melting from this heat wave.

    Haha is that coffee sitting there......

    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    Return wraps

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Clarence,


    I feel GDT is at a crossroads there on that block terminal.

    The kicker here ole friend is I was testing this while powered by my inverter. Not the mains.

    Don't abandon this setup just yet. You may have something here.


    wantomake
    Wantomake,

    Morning Sir! Should say a Good Coffee morning for sure!
    I have some extra on hand scrap multi-strand high AWG wire . So for this interim time I am going to be doing as many types of Thought-up ground return wire wraps on the Captor Coil as possible. The Toroid core and 660
    coil will be totally disconnected for all of this time.
    Now's the time to play so this ole boy is going to love it!
    Will make written notes to myself and then get back to you when I run out
    of ways to wrap. Last thing I tried Showed an increase of induction transfer to the DEAD Captor coil from the previous .2 amps to a new .3 amps.
    Will see how high an induction transfer between the two I can build.

    Have a good sip or two J.

    Clarence

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    Captor

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Clarence,
    Take care of yourself. Take some time to get better. My parts come in Monday. And it was 97 here with 102 + heat index. Will be better to make a go at it Monday or Tuesday as its supposed to cool down by then.

    I feel GDT is at a crossroads there on that block terminal. The hot connected to the terminal then to the ground, which is a short. We know this. But is there something happening because of the plasma filled GDT between the ground and connected to the other side of the receptacle. Is the GDT causing energy to be charged by ions or photons, positive or negative, or what it's called I don't know. I connected a neon lamp across that terminal and it fried!!!! The neon was rated at 120v ac. Why did it fry? There's something serious going on there at that terminal. I've used that neon to test 120v ac how many times.

    The kicker here ole friend is I was testing this while powered by my inverter. Not the mains.

    Don't abandon this setup just yet. You may have something here.

    Just rest take it easy. We'll know more after the parts come in.
    wantomake
    Wantomake,

    I don't intend to abandon any thing.
    My point was that the Captor IS Producing amperage AND injecting it into the
    return circuit but it is VERY SMALL WITH ONLY THE ONE & A HALF TURN.

    THAT is the direction I want to study! More turns around the two coil turns?/or MORE turns around ALL of the coil turns at one time?
    I don't know which way is the best at present but I,m sure going to find out!

    Thanks for the concern and health advice - that was caused strictly by my ole dumb ass!

    Thanks for listening J !

    Clarence

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Health more important

    Originally posted by clarence View Post
    Wantomake,

    Not ignoring you, just been hellaciouslly busy today. Was helping daughter-in-law today with her water well tank replacement. Was 96 + degrees and sweating like a water spout.
    Had not paid attention to my blood/sugar level lately (down to 70 - REAL BAD) so at one point I found myself laying flat on the ground looking at the sky. Needless to say she freaked out! Ha Ha. I should have known better so we shut down until tomorrow .

    Had been busy off and on rechecking things on my unit and found a serious
    problem that I didn't know existed. The factory 90 volt GDT I was using was a factory DUD. It did not have a plasma action in it at all - It was simply a strait through connection (short) . So then had to go back to the ARIOVALDO type
    schematic which auto killed the mains breaker (also the reason why inverters GROWL or Auto kick out) .
    So please check your GDTS for continuity when you get them.

    Am beginning to see that the B&L units are a type of Fool The Meter program with a CAPTOR thrown in.

    You method of checking the voltage with the Captor disconnected to see whether or not the captor is doing any thing or not is basiclly good but it is not the best method.
    Me, I don't care what the voltage is or is not. What I want to know is any induction of amperage from one to the other taking place or not.

    The way I do it is to disconnect all power to the Captor and leave tho voltage
    still flowing through the one and a half green wire loop around the Captor coil
    And check with a clamp meter on the Captor Coil itself.
    I finally had a chance to day to do that and there IS induction taking place between the green ground wire loop on the Captor coil. At this present time that amount of amperage transfer is only .2 amps. So this is the area to be worked on and I will proceed to do just that.

    J, it's really been a nutty day so I,m going to take a rest for tomorrow at least.
    BTW: to keep the mains breaker or an inverter from seeing the ground return as a direct short you can place a RUN capacitor between the incoming ground return and the Green wire one and a half loop around the captor coil.
    It changes the DIRECT contact to an electrostatic contact an makes feed possible.

    Thanks for listening.

    Clarence
    Clarence,
    Take care of yourself. Take some time to get better. My parts come in Monday. And it was 97 here with 102 + heat index. Will be better to make a go at it Monday or Tuesday as its supposed to cool down by then.

    I feel GDT is at a crossroads there on that block terminal. The hot connected to the terminal then to the ground, which is a short. We know this. But is there something happening because of the plasma filled GDT between the ground and connected to the other side of the receptacle. Is the GDT causing energy to be charged by ions or photons, positive or negative, or what it's called I don't know. I connected a neon lamp across that terminal and it fried!!!! The neon was rated at 120v ac. Why did it fry? There's something serious going on there at that terminal. I've used that neon to test 120v ac how many times.

    The kicker here ole friend is I was testing this while powered by my inverter. Not the mains.

    Don't abandon this setup just yet. You may have something here.

    Just rest take it easy. We'll know more after the parts come in.
    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Size matters

    Originally posted by digits10 View Post
    Ok, I've got measurements:

    outer diameter: 4 5/8"
    inner diameter: 2 1/2"
    height: 1 3/4"

    I do have access to 20#. I've also got the gdt's on order!
    digits10,
    Yes that's the same size and type we have. Sorry couldn't get to the shop today. Had to wait a while before I could measure mine. I actually have two, one I wound, the other is extra.

    wantomake
    EDIT: digits10 you may want to hold off for a while until we work out the bugs. As per Clarence post above.
    Last edited by wantomake; 07-23-2017, 01:36 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    Hello

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Clarence,
    I don't have any GDT's other than the 250 volt ones. USPS says the parcel is coming from midwest. So may be here Monday or Tuesday. If they would feed those snails a little we would have our mail delivered faster. Haha hey is that coffee sitting there? Yes!!!!

    Oh I can't wait to see this baby finally purr. Did you get it to power from an inverter? I missed that through all this celebration noise.

    The heat 102+ heat index has limited my shop time. But I still study FE and keep notes. Plus life and such keeps one busy.

    Hey is that a hot cup of coffee sitting there.....

    wantomake
    Wantomake,

    Not ignoring you, just been hellaciouslly busy today. Was helping daughter-in-law today with her water well tank replacement. Was 96 + degrees and sweating like a water spout.
    Had not paid attention to my blood/sugar level lately (down to 70 - REAL BAD) so at one point I found myself laying flat on the ground looking at the sky. Needless to say she freaked out! Ha Ha. I should have known better so we shut down until tomorrow .

    Had been busy off and on rechecking things on my unit and found a serious
    problem that I didn't know existed. The factory 90 volt GDT I was using was a factory DUD. It did not have a plasma action in it at all - It was simply a strait through connection (short) . So then had to go back to the ARIOVALDO type
    schematic which auto killed the mains breaker (also the reason why inverters GROWL or Auto kick out) .
    So please check your GDTS for continuity when you get them.

    Am beginning to see that the B&L units are a type of Fool The Meter program with a CAPTOR thrown in.

    You method of checking the voltage with the Captor disconnected to see whether or not the captor is doing any thing or not is basiclly good but it is not the best method.
    Me, I don't care what the voltage is or is not. What I want to know is any induction of amperage from one to the other taking place or not.

    The way I do it is to disconnect all power to the Captor and leave tho voltage
    still flowing through the one and a half green wire loop around the Captor coil
    And check with a clamp meter on the Captor Coil itself.
    I finally had a chance to day to do that and there IS induction taking place between the green ground wire loop on the Captor coil. At this present time that amount of amperage transfer is only .2 amps. So this is the area to be worked on and I will proceed to do just that.

    J, it's really been a nutty day so I,m going to take a rest for tomorrow at least.
    BTW: to keep the mains breaker or an inverter from seeing the ground return as a direct short you can place a RUN capacitor between the incoming ground return and the Green wire one and a half loop around the captor coil.
    It changes the DIRECT contact to an electrostatic contact an makes feed possible.

    Thanks for listening.

    Clarence

    Leave a comment:


  • digits10
    replied
    measurements

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Digits10,
    It may work, but like Clarence said it's hard to wind the core. The hardest part is seeing the wire. Each loop has to fit tightly next to the last loop. That 28 and 32 awg is smaller and harder to see. Plus there are electronic specifications to consider that I can't qoute you cause I don't know them. I believe I got 420 feet of the 20 awg and had a little left over.

    Did you post the dimensions of your core yet?

    wantomake
    Ok, I've got measurements:

    outer diameter: 4 5/8"
    inner diameter: 2 1/2"
    height: 1 3/4"

    I do have access to 20#. I've also got the gdt's on order!

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Gdt

    Originally posted by clarence View Post
    Wantomake,

    On the GDT,s - If I remember right , from order to ship takes 1-2 days and about 4-5 total to get them in hand.
    The same Ole waiting program.

    Hang in there , it's worth the wait.
    After 4 years I've finally got something that works and rewards all the efforts.
    PTL!

    The best part is having it right there at your finger tips and under your control.
    After a full month of operating it, I have a few Ideas of How to improve it's performance.
    Until then I'm only going to watch it!

    Hang on J,

    Clarence
    Clarence,
    I don't have any GDT's other than the 250 volt ones. USPS says the parcel is coming from midwest. So may be here Monday or Tuesday. If they would feed those snails a little we would have our mail delivered faster. Haha hey is that coffee sitting there? Yes!!!!

    Oh I can't wait to see this baby finally purr. Did you get it to power from an inverter? I missed that through all this celebration noise.

    The heat 102+ heat index has limited my shop time. But I still study FE and keep notes. Plus life and such keeps one busy.

    Hey is that a hot cup of coffee sitting there.....

    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Originally posted by digits10 View Post
    I'm sure Clarence is correct that it's not too fun to wind 660 times However, I might give it a shot just for the learning experience. I've got 1000' of 32 gauge & also 28 gauge enameled magnet wire from a different project already. Is it too small to work?
    Digits10,
    It may work, but like Clarence said it's hard to wind the core. The hardest part is seeing the wire. Each loop has to fit tightly next to the last loop. That 28 and 32 awg is smaller and harder to see. Plus there are electronic specifications to consider that I can't qoute you cause I don't know them. I believe I got 420 feet of the 20 awg and had a little left over.

    Did you post the dimensions of your core yet?

    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • digits10
    replied
    Winding

    I'm sure Clarence is correct that it's not too fun to wind 660 times However, I might give it a shot just for the learning experience. I've got 1000' of 32 gauge & also 28 gauge enameled magnet wire from a different project already. Is it too small to work?


    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Digits10,
    Measure the OD (outside diameter), ID, and height. If it's same as ours, Clarence and I, then can give you some pointers to winding yours.

    Clarence was patient to show me how to wind mine. We wrapped and tested two before getting it right. But once you start wrapping it kind of falls in to place and you'll get the hang of it.

    I think I bought 400 feet of #20 magnet wire to start with.

    But tell us the dimensions first.
    wantomake
    Edit: Sorry didn't see Clarence post until after I posted. It took two days to wrap and painful. But possible.

    Leave a comment:

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