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  • clarence
    replied
    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Edit: Clarence didn't see your new post. I was typing. Will need to order more 20 awg.
    Wantomake,

    I wasn't real happy about the 660 turn toroid info.

    At that time I just didn't put everything together as I should have because of lack of info.

    The concept of their (B&L) toroid being an actual input /output explains all those extra wires shown in the tear down photos of "A".
    All that TANGLED wire mess makes a little more sense now.

    All things aside, providing this series circuit through the two toroids IS effective then the search for an actual working B&L unit is over!

    That would delight me no end.

    Time for a sip.

    Clarence

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    English and Irish

    Originally posted by clarence View Post
    Hello Digits10,

    Thanks for your support.
    I am Irish.The next few posts will be enlightening also.
    The next one could pertain to you also!

    Have a good day,

    Clarence
    Thanks Digits10,
    It's good to know. I'm mostly for right now just a student in the back of Clarence class room.

    I'm English. We have our ancestry from the 1200's and came from Essex county or area in England. The Irish and English working and sharing a cup or pint together. Coffee each morning and a pint or two each weekend. If we lived closer I'd certainly drive ole Clarence mad with my many questions.

    If you look around the room you'll spot me, the one with notebooks all around and an eager look on his English face. Or too much caffeine look.

    Spot of coffee anyone,
    wantomake
    Edit: Clarence didn't see your new post. I was typing. Will need to order more 20 awg.
    Last edited by wantomake; 08-03-2017, 11:58 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    Toroid coils

    Originally posted by clarence View Post
    Wantomake,

    The single primary toroid has 330 turns of say 22-24 AWG mag wire. However, I'm going to use the old standby #20 AWG to finish the secondary on my two .

    I would suggest you use the 660 toroid and wind over it for a secondary
    with 330 tourns of #20 mag wire also. Just do a reasonable back and forth
    right hand wind wherever it looks good for you.

    The transformers in series are supposed to be balanced with respect to having equal turns ratio, but just for a preliminary trial the lower voltage
    output from the 660 unit may not matter all that much. The dual in series hookup will give double the amperage output anyway. (Hope so.)


    Later J,

    Clarence
    Wantomake,

    I need to speak to you about our 660 turn toroid.
    When I used the primary only toroids in series and then realized they needed
    to have a full secondary also - namely a 330 turn primary AND a 330 turn secondary, I said "OH ****", that means that the B&L actual toroid WAS a
    PRIMARY with a SECONDARY !
    They wound the core with 330 turns ( A standard number for toroid transformers it seems ) on one side of the metal core and wound the other side with 330 turns also.!
    It ALSO gave them the MAGNETIC FLUX separation I was looking for all this time! (SOB)
    This makes our 660 turn toroid primary a blooper! (XXXX - XXXX - XXXX).
    A real screw-up because it covers the WHOLE surface AREA!

    Further research into the patent SAYS that their units can be made in a
    SINGLE TOROID TRANSFORMER , or a SERIES DOUBLE TRANSFORMER,
    or a TWO -SERIES DOUBLE TRANSFORMER, or a THREE-SERIES DOUBLE TRANSFORMER, or a FOUR-SERIES DOUBLE TRANSFORMER unit, depending on the CUSTOMERS POWER NEEDS!!!! (AMPERAGE NEEDED) !!
    How about that!

    As I said,I will be winding these two Toroids that I have to validate all this info.

    Probably going to need several cups to wash this down!

    Clarence

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    Thank you

    Originally posted by digits10 View Post
    I'm one of the silent followers. . . ok, maybe not so silent I'm reading every one of your posts, and check in several times daily for updates. Just in case you wonder if your posts are benefiting anyone, I appreciate them. Since I'm unable to keep pace with you, I'm just watching right now. But, I'm ready to have at it when you finally reach the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! (Well, if you're Irish I guess).
    Hello Digits10,

    Thanks for your support.
    I am Irish.The next few posts will be enlightening also.
    The next one could pertain to you also!

    Have a good day,

    Clarence

    Leave a comment:


  • digits10
    replied
    Keep it up

    I'm one of the silent followers. . . ok, maybe not so silent I'm reading every one of your posts, and check in several times daily for updates. Just in case you wonder if your posts are benefiting anyone, I appreciate them. Since I'm unable to keep pace with you, I'm just watching right now. But, I'm ready to have at it when you finally reach the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! (Well, if you're Irish I guess).

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    Have at it brother

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Clarence,
    I'm blown away by your last post. If I can't build for two days then craziness will set in.

    I have only one of the two primary only toroids left. The other was rewound. So the waiting will start for me. I've no choice now.

    So I could just try the solo toroid with a smaller ought wire and just a simple test.

    You saw good results with the two so therefore I do wait if I can for your next post.

    wantomake
    Wantomake,

    The single primary toroid has 330 turns of say 22-24 AWG mag wire. However, I'm going to use the old standby #20 AWG to finish the secondary on my two .

    I would suggest you use the 660 toroid and wind over it for a secondary
    with 330 tourns of #20 mag wire also. Just do a reasonable back and forth
    right hand wind wherever it looks god for you.

    The transformers in series are supposed to be balanced with respect to having equal turns ratio, but just for a preliminary trial the lower voltage
    output from the 660 unit may not matter all that much. The dual in series hookup will give double the amperage output anyway. (Hope so.)

    You said I had good results - here are the facts so you will know. The continued circuit through the two winds gave a total voltage output from open end to other open end of 2.0 volts. When I disconnect the line wire to just one of the toroids the voltage dropped to 1 volt - hooked it back up so two were in series again -bingo - back to 2 volts output again! For the other test of the out put I connected it to the Ground return - Remained 2.0 volts.
    Normally when I would touch a low voltage AC indication to the ground return
    all voltage indication would disappear- not so with this setup.

    All of this noted info told me that first of all the voltage output was real,
    secondly it told me that the two winds were just for illustration purposes and that the secondaries had to match the primary winds for a balanced transformer output - namely 120 in with 120 out.
    Also it told me that the input was DIRECT power from mains and that the output was from MAGNETIC FLUX - the separation I was looking for.

    Hope all this explains whatI foundout and what you can expect for youself.

    Later J,

    Clarence

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    That one

    Clarence,
    I'm blown away by your last post. If I can't build for two days then craziness will set in.

    I have only one of the two primary only toroids left. The other was rewound. So the waiting will start for me. I've no choice now.

    So I could just try the solo toroid with a smaller ought wire and just a simple test.

    You saw good results with the two so therefore I do wait if I can for your next post.

    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    Originally posted by clarence View Post
    Wantomake,

    The whole Idea of the operation of this system is based on the premise of
    using an indirect non-meter system that will yet still be able to function and connect with the utility earth ground voltage that is available every where.

    The emphasis in this system has a focus on magnetic flux and it's use in electric energy transfer.

    The main thing is to get to hell away from a Direct Mains Power Connection
    Which the DAMN red wire IS.
    When ever that solution is reached then progress can be made.


    Clarence
    Wantomake,

    I did manage to take the time to use the two Primary only Toroids that I had.

    The results were finally what I was looking for.

    It turns out that the depicted information in the photo shown in the thumbnail
    is only for ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY.

    The word LOOP does NOT refer to the SHORTED LOOP AT ALL! It simply means the CONTINUATION of the Item #4 wire from one transformer to another!
    The OPEN ENDS of the #4 illustrated wire become the HOT and NEUTRAL
    of the circuit to POWER LOADS!
    THIS process eliminates a DIRECT WIRE CONNECTION TO POWER LOADS.
    It makes the power supply to the loads AVAILABLE BY MAGNETIC FLUX through the transformers.

    Using the TWO transformers gives the same voltage but DOUBLES THE CURRENT.

    The number of turns on each transformer for the #4 illustrated loop
    IS NOT TWO TURNS - as I said that was only for illustration purposes.
    The ACTUAL number of turns DEPENDS on the number of turns in the Transformer PRIMARY!

    I will add the necessary secondary winding and finish the rebuild in the next few days or so.

    ALSO- After many trials with IT the focus of the trials the ole # 1.0 ought
    SHORTED LOOP will NOT be in my setup anymore.
    This I found out:#1- it WILL NOT induct voltage or amperage into anything.
    #2- It is pure EYE CANDY - A White Elephant - A DoDo Bird.
    #3- It serves NO purpose.

    Talk more in the next few days to come.

    Clarence
    Attached Files
    Last edited by clarence; 08-03-2017, 01:04 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Clarence,
    I've not worked any on project last couple days. Cutting the jungle at my age takes a lot of time.

    The last test was with coils and such around the loop which I posted results before. I feel that sometimes that project takes too much time and energy. Taking some time away from it gives me a fresh look at the setup. Studying the patent more helps. That picture with the transformer and simple winding of wires is what catches my eye. The loop isn't a connected "loop". And it is wound parallel over the core winding it seems. The pdf also has a picture of this transformer. Speculation of a patent is fruitless cause patents don't reveal the entire setup. Inventors protect themselves. We all know this.

    If I get the weed eating done today, then will try some new ideas on the loop. DC pulsing with a pwm. I've been pulsing with a Matthew modified motor which gives some results. But not enough to throw a rock at the rooster to make him crow.

    Coffee needs my attention,
    wantomake
    Wantomake,

    The whole Idea of the operation of this system is based on the premise of
    using an indirect non-meter system that will yet still be able to function and connect with the utility earth ground voltage that is available every where.

    The emphasis in this system has a focus on magnetic flux and it's use in electric energy transfer.
    The TWO this and TWO that with respect to electrical transfer puts me in mind of a TWO transformer Series system where the net output voltage is the same but the Current (Amperage ) is doubled.
    I still have TWO of my old type Toroid Primary only transformers sitting in a closet so I am going to take them an face them together as the PDF said.
    It will take a secondary wind to build the core to its full magnetic flux strength so on one I will do TWO turns and loop it to itself. The other Flux linked transformer I will do Two turns open ended.
    The main effort here is to see whether or not the flux link loads back to the other transformer or not being powered in series or whether it can act independent from the other transformer or not.

    Also I will see whether I can Link the TWO transformers By Flux only from just one being powered - a sort of Thanes configuration.
    The main thing is to get to hell away from a Direct Mains Power Connection
    Which the DAMN red wire IS.
    When ever that solution is reached then progress can be made.


    Clarence

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Too much jungle

    Originally posted by clarence View Post
    Wantomake,

    Using the two rings approach - one being the Captor loop and the other being an opposing clockwise turns didn't give any worthy results at all. ( Many configurations made ) .

    So am going back the original "A" setup and more patent info research.
    If I come up with anything else I'll get back to you.

    Later J ,

    Clarence
    Clarence,
    I've not worked any on project last couple days. Cutting the jungle at my age takes a lot of time.

    The last test was with coils and such around the loop which I posted results before. I feel that sometimes that project takes too much time and energy. Taking some time away from it gives me a fresh look at the setup. Studying the patent more helps. That picture with the transformer and simple winding of wires is what catches my eye. The loop isn't a connected "loop". And it is wound parallel over the core winding it seems. The pdf also has a picture of this transformer. Speculation of a patent is fruitless cause patents don't reveal the entire setup. Inventors protect themselves. We all know this.

    If I get the weed eating done today, then will try some new ideas on the loop. DC pulsing with a pwm. I've been pulsing with a Matthew modified motor which gives some results. But not enough to throw a rock at the rooster to make him crow.

    Coffee needs my attention,
    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    Back to basic circuit & patent info

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Clarence,
    Having a cup of happy wake me up right now.

    So no matter what size loop wire the coil performs well. All the winding by hand paying off. It's a first success story for me. At least with this project.

    I do have a drop cord from the house to the shop for some mains power. I just let stupidity take over and cooked the inverter.

    So what is this step now? To determine the correct length and awg for the loop?

    Musings and coffee, a good morning indeed.
    wantomake
    Wantomake,

    Using the two rings approach - one being the Captor loop and the other being an opposing clockwise turns didn't give any worthy results at all. ( Many configurations made ) .

    So am going back the original "A" setup and more patent info research.
    If I come up with anything else I'll get back to you.

    Later J ,

    Clarence

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    Two coil setup

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Clarence,
    Having a cup of happy wake me up right now.

    So no matter what size loop wire the coil performs well. All the winding by hand paying off. It's a first success story for me. At least with this project.

    I do have a drop cord from the house to the shop for some mains power. I just let stupidity take over and cooked the inverter.

    So what is this step now? To determine the correct length and awg for the loop?

    Musings and coffee, a good morning indeed.
    wantomake
    Wantomake,

    Just back fron DIL,s and had a mug. Ready to get it!

    Seriously, spent all last night with the small wire # 12 AWG doing different coil winding and taking note of voltage/amps results.

    The coil in the previous photo shows the coil wire mainly outside the toroid
    body with only one pass through the center. In this arrangement the flux transfer only acts on the one wire pass thru and can only effect a limited
    amount of V/A.
    However,when you use the TWO wire pass thru with the TWO turns wrapped AROUND the toroid BODY It is a DIFFERENT STORY altogether.
    ALSO
    IF THE WRAPS are FORMED tight up against the CORE BODY the potential
    VOLTAGE reading between the SPLIT BOLT CONNECTOR and ground return
    INCREASES dramatically - say from 14.5 V to 54.+ volts.

    As I was doing all this I took notes and made myself a schematic to use today
    with the #6 AWG for the coil wraps.
    I made this change because I found that circling the toroid core through the center ONLY - DOES INCREASE AMPS but also causes HEAT in the WIRE.
    The takeaway from this trial is that each center wrap increases Loop voltage
    and amperage and split bolt connection to ground return voltage potential.

    It may take some hours to get all this done, so just be patient - maybe a Sippin on the side too.

    EDIT: The two coils I will make and use today will be CW and CCW per the attachment PDF file on Post# 1518.

    Thanks J,

    Clarence
    Last edited by clarence; 08-01-2017, 03:25 PM. Reason: NEED TO KNOW!

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Loop and coil

    Clarence,
    Having a cup of happy wake me up right now.

    So no matter what size loop wire the coil performs well. All the winding by hand paying off. It's a first success story for me. At least with this project.

    I do have a drop cord from the house to the shop for some mains power. I just let stupidity take over and cooked the inverter.

    So what is this step now? To determine the correct length and awg for the loop?

    Musings and coffee, a good morning indeed.
    wantomake
    Last edited by wantomake; 08-01-2017, 11:45 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    No smoke no fire

    I'll see if the voltage and amperage in the B&L loop has got the goods to make some heat or NOT. if it DOES then I'll move on to next things to check.

    Later J

    Clarence[/QUOTE]

    Wantomake,

    No Smoke No Fire.
    What I did find out is that the Loop thing works like they have it set up.

    The only thing different with any loop set up will be the Amperage values
    it will handle and the corresponding amperage value of the toroid as it drives it.
    Everything varies according to the wire size you use in the shorted loop.
    If you used 4.0 ought cable then the amperage inside the shorted loop
    would be somewhere around a thousand Amps or so. All corresponds to what they said years back. Beginning to make the patent look more and more important.

    The little wire size and the clamp meter says it all. I used # 12 AWG.
    The milli Amp reading on the toroid driving this showed .04.

    Well, tomorrow I'll be back to further coil trials.

    Have some for me.

    Clarence
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • clarence
    replied
    AC vs DC

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Clarence,
    Well the whole world has gone crazy around the house. Got up to no special coffee creamer. Therefore no good wake me up, no explosion of thoughts or ideas. Sorry just a little old sleepy brain this morning.

    I did try a different way (last night)as per the PDF on the loop (the #1 ought) to just see if any improvement. No improvement or any change.

    Again not sure of meaning on that latest pdf, but did try. But the DC to the coil was interesting. The readings on the loop was only 7 amps. But leaving too many crazy connected wires resulted in not paying attention and fried the 750 watt inverter.

    So back to basics again.
    wantomake
    Wantomake,

    Yes, I found out that its not nice to change ac to dc and then try to use it to power loads that are designed for AC use only. Invariably a person winds up
    rectifying the voltage in the wrong direction and ends up with a short which
    trips breakers or fries inverters. That's why I am using mains at present because the breaker will trip before I can say "oh ****" and move my arms
    and hands to make a fast disconnect.
    But I am also mindful that you are in a different position to make trials since your shop is far away from the house mains availability.
    I tried some diode use in the line output and ground input this AM ( making SURE of diode orientation ) and found it would lite bulbs up to 250 watt heat bulbs. But when I tried a floor the blade would barely move and the motor growled at me like a mad dog! had my hand on it's switch tho and saved the day.

    For now the only thing I try will be the captor and coils involved with it.
    I started with the # 1.0 ought loop making notes.
    Mine shows 74.9 amps as normal.
    When I use the DVMM meter with positive to ground return and the neg to
    the exposed split bolt connector it show a potential of 31.2-4 ac volts.
    Doing the same thing but instead touching the positive lead to line input it shows 10.49 ac volts.
    Doing the same but touching the positive lead to the mains positive input
    it shows zero.
    All of this tells me there is a voltage component in the loop but it is small
    and it SEEMS directional ( only an assumption for now ).

    When I disconnected the loop and just left the two ends exposed and measured for voltage my meter shows 0.2 volts . This seems more than I would expect. Transformer rules go like this: Input voltage/divided by primary coil turns/ equals the volts across each off the 660 turns.
    That is how much voltage will be impressed on each turn of the secondary .
    Since the secondary only has ONE turn through the center of the core
    it should go like this: 120 VAC/660 turns=0.181818181818.
    I guess that's not enough difference to quibble about so i'll settle for the 0.20
    reading.

    It still has to be validated that there is any voltage in the closed loop.
    The 1.0 ought is supposed to have the advantage of size versus heating.
    So next I'm going to do the "smoke and fire " test. It takes BOTH voltage
    and AMPERAGE involved in a circuit or coil to that is shorted to produce HEAT!

    I'll see if the voltage and amperage in the B&L loop has got the goods to make some heat or NOT. if it DOES then I'll move on to next things to check.

    Later J

    Clarence

    Leave a comment:

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