Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[BroMikey]

Hello Clarence. No offense intended at all, but frankly, as I have mentioned before, all indications from what you have said previously here are that your system is not working as a self running device, .............................................

Now, BroMikey or others, before you jump all over me, think about what I am saying. .................................................. .................................................. ............................... Yes, Clarence could just make up some test results, but that is something we would have to look at and try to evaluate.

Hi Level

You are good dude, why so nervous? If you have the right intent in mind why hold back? Clarence can take care of himself. Personally I think
your statements are at best challenging? I mean the guy puts the
phrase "SELF RUNNING" right on his diagrams and you want to
call him a liar.

I am not offended, just wondering how you can equate your evaluation
of Clarence statement that his machine is a "self runner" as misinformation.

Based on Clarence data we see a 70ah battery running a refrigerator, microwave or other things in the kitchen for 4-5 hours. First of all Level I want you and others to know that I am glad you are asking questions, not a bad thing at all.

Let's look at the data PLUS your statements. Your statement demands Clarence do other things that you think are absent in a way that has called him basically a liar.

That is fact number one.

Fact two is now you expect Clarence to comply or else.

Fact three, each time you do this Clarence does not respond to you.

Are we catching on yet? Clarence is the authority here. You are challenging
that authority, okay fine. You want Clarence to show more data because otherwise you don't believe him.

Now I ask you, if you were the one giving this gift to your fellow experimenter friends and Clarence came along calling your gift a lie,
would you favor him? Would you go out of your way to see to it that even after the insults, that Clarence be treated as a special student?

All I am trying to do here is involve some common sense.

Now going back to the simple math that you (LEVEL) did not answer in
another post. Where is the energy coming from running a refrigerator
and other kitchen devices from a 70ah battery?

Let's add it up again, or am I wasting your time because you don't
believe that Clarence has properly documented any data that proves
to you that a refrig and other appliances ran off his system?

Either Clarence did self run or it didn't.

The math shows that just the refrigerator alone could not run off a 70ah
battery 4-5hrs. Do you acknowledge these facts. Can you perform this
simple math function? I wonder because you did not respond before.

This is how you come across.

Okay IF Clarence did run 4-5hrs off his system and IF it is a self runner I need more data. Do you listen to yourself?

I am not worried about Clarence, he is a real man so fire your questions
but for goodness sakes listen to yourselves so you can talk rigth next time.

Now let me show you how to talk to Clarence.

Dear Clarence I am skeptical about so many inventions on the web with their inventors being a fraud and frankly I have become frustrated, disgusted and applaud with all of the misinformation they present.

Can you offer more conclusive data that will cause me to look at your invention any other way? I have built many devices that don't work and I am
beside myself, can you help me?

Don't worry LEVEL you are not the only one.

What about it Clarence? Can you offer this young man any words of wisdom?

Mikey

[citfta]

Yes I agree about Clarence. From what I have seen I believe he is a serious researcher. But there are several others on here that just can stand for someone to ask real questions.

Hello citfta. From what I have see, I don't think Clarence will get involved in personal attacks, but it is possible others might. Personal attacks on an internet forum don't bother me at all, but it does clutter up a thread unnecessarily.

Carroll

[Wistiti]

asking question...

Level
for me your post is a legetim one and the most important it is respecful.

[level]

Hello citfta. From what I have see, I don't think Clarence will get involved in personal attacks, but it is possible others might. Personal attacks on an internet forum don't bother me at all, but it does clutter up a thread unnecessarily.

[citfta]

Oh my! level, you have done it now! You dared to ask for some proof a device does what it is claimed it does. Haven't you learned by now you can't do that on this forum? I can now predict exactly what will happen next. Instead of getting an answer about the technical questions you have raised you will be attacked on a personal level. Oh, sorry about the pun. It wasn't intended. But I have learned that when someone on here can't or doesn't want to answer a technical question they resort to personal attacks instead. That always makes me wonder what they are trying to hide. Are they hiding the fact they don't really know the answer or do they know but don't want anyone else to know because the answer is not good.

Good luck on getting a real answer. And remember when the personal attacks get boring, like the ranting of a 5 year old, you can always use the ignore button.

Sincerely,
Carroll

[level]

Hello level,
with respect to the inverter neutral not being grounded at all you will simply have NO PERFORMANCE AT ALL!
I had stated way back at OU that this system was BUILT AS ITS OWN SWER system and that was why the rod system should be as FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE
FROM ANY MAINS GROUNDING so as to NOT pickup any stray voltage from SUCH!!!! as usual it is apparent there was no GRASP on that information!

Hello Clarence. No offense intended at all, but frankly, as I have mentioned before, all indications from what you have said previously here are that your system is not working as a self running device, so that is why I am throwing out some ideas, in case anyone who still wants to try to build and test with one of these setups wants to try some different arrangements to see if they can get the device to self run, since we don't really know how your own setup is actually performing.

You have actually provided very little test results information so far that anyone can look at to try to determine how your device is performing. If your setup was able to self run, I see no reason why you would not be willing to share some long term test results with everyone here, since all you would have to do is connect in a light bulb and then switch on the device and leave it running for 24 hours or more, while measuring the battery voltage periodically. Since you have so far ignored requests for such a simple test, I can only conclude that your setup doesn't self run. A simple test or two like this would help others here to see exactly how your setup performs in self loop mode for a reasonable duration of time. You should understand that until you provide these sort of performance details, there is no reason for anyone to think your setup is over unity.

So, it is not that people are not getting what you are saying. It is that you haven't provided important details about how your setup actually performs for anyone to try to assess if your device actually performs any better than if you just connect the battery and inverter alone to a light bulb and leave that running for a few hours. People often make mistaken claims about free energy devices in these forums. We have probably all seen that many times. I am not saying I think you are definitely mistaken. I am saying that without you at least presenting some longer duration test results as described above, we have very little to go on. So that leaves you as just another guy saying he has a 'working' free energy device, but not giving anyone any practical test information that they can then evaluate.

Now, BroMikey or others, before you jump all over me, think about what I am saying. I don't think anything I am saying is too unreasonable at all. For those of us who don't know Clarence personally, we have no way of evaluating what he is saying unless he at least provides some practical performance test results. That is just a fact of the situation of communicating in forums of this type. Yes, Clarence could just make up some test results, but that is something we would have to look at and try to evaluate.

[clarence]

Previous knowledge

Hello Clarence. That's interesting, as one guy who posted to the ou.com thread who had a Barbosa and Leal device in his possession stated that Barbosa and Leal had specified 40 rods, with an area of 30 x 50 meters. Doing a quick calculation, that appears to work out to a rod spacing of about 7 meters spacing between all rods.

See:
Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Reply #638
« Reply #638 on: March 21, 2014, 02:23:46 PM »
"Yes, I will do some more tests even knowing that in the original equipment didn't work with the original owner and didn't work with me. The original owner had a good grounding system but I didn't see how was the tests and connections. When I tried, my grounding was not good like they use to ask for.
The excuse that Barbosa gave to the original owner was the inductance in the primary was not right. The inductance was 0.21 Henries and was suppose to be between 0.6 and 0.8 Henries as I told before.
The grounding system that they asked for is 40 rods using 35 or 50 mm. Area 30 X 50 meters."

Notice he mentioned that Barbosa and Leal apparently specified a ground rod thickness of 35mm to 50mm, which is 1.4 inches to 2 inches thick! It sounds like they were recommending using pipe for ground rods.
A ground rod layout area of 30 x 50 meters and using 1.4 inch to 2 inch thick pipe would not be practical for most people unless you have a ranch or farm, and putting in thick pipe would probably be very hard to do if it is eight foot long lengths.

Edit: I attached a picture of the core that was used in the device that was constructed by Barbosa and Leal. It appears to be an iron or steel motor stator core.

Hello LEVEL,

Everything you stated was ALREADY previous KNOWLEDGE to me from way back and I also know who the individual you made reference to is ( without having to click on the suggested post )..

I did MOUNTAINS of research BEFORE I ever built my unit and I have my success for that reason!
IT was never an "experiment" for me, only a replication.
chiefly, that is why I can answer the questions that are asked. Been There Done That.

PS: thanks for the help , you were the main ingriedient in the success.

very respectfully Sir,

Thanks,

Clarence

[level]

Hello level,
unknown to all of you I have privy to actual stated by mouth recorded information direct FROM B&L THEMSELVES and their answer when questioned about the subject was 1 meter!!!!!!!

so that is where I came to use the 3 foot linked distance in the series connected rods!!!!!

I will NOT divulge my source to that information from B&L as that would violate the cofidentiality of that person and I will NEVER do such!!!!!!

thanks,
Clarence

Hello Clarence. That's interesting, as one guy who posted to the ou.com thread who had a Barbosa and Leal device in his possession stated that Barbosa and Leal had specified 40 rods, with an area of 30 x 50 meters. Doing a quick calculation, that appears to work out to a rod spacing of about 7 meters spacing between all rods.

See:
Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Reply #638
« Reply #638 on: March 21, 2014, 02:23:46 PM »
"Yes, I will do some more tests even knowing that in the original equipment didn't work with the original owner and didn't work with me. The original owner had a good grounding system but I didn't see how was the tests and connections. When I tried, my grounding was not good like they use to ask for.
The excuse that Barbosa gave to the original owner was the inductance in the primary was not right. The inductance was 0.21 Henries and was suppose to be between 0.6 and 0.8 Henries as I told before.
The grounding system that they asked for is 40 rods using 35 or 50 mm. Area 30 X 50 meters."

Notice he mentioned that Barbosa and Leal apparently specified a ground rod thickness of 35mm to 50mm, which is 1.4 inches to 2 inches thick! It sounds like they were recommending using pipe for ground rods.
A ground rod layout area of 30 x 50 meters and using 1.4 inch to 2 inch thick pipe would not be practical for most people unless you have a ranch or farm, and putting in thick pipe would probably be very hard to do if it is eight foot long lengths.

Edit: I attached a picture of the core that was used in the device that was constructed by Barbosa and Leal. It appears to be an iron or steel motor stator core.

[level]

HELLO,
The core material is ferrite. it has a distinct advantage over laminated as far as I'm concerned.
thanks,
Clarence

The material used in power toroids for 50Hz/60Hz AC use is typically grain oriented silicon steel, which is a different material than ferrites. Ferrites usually are not suitable for frequencies down in the 50Hz to 60Hz range, whereas the grain oriented silicon steel works very well at those low frequencies. The grain oriented silicon steel is formed into thin bands and wound into a toroid. There may be other materials used in 50Hz/60Hz power toroids, but the grain oriented silicon steel material seems to be quite common these days.

[clarence]

Rod Distance

Hello wayne49s. This is a very good question. In regards to earth grounding for electrical systems, such as electrical grounding for electrical panels, according to code the minimum distance between two ground rods is about two meters or about six feet. This is actually a compromise distance however. I have read that the optimal distance between two connected ground rods to get the least resistance to the earth is actually 7.6 meters or about 25 feet!

The reason for this is a ground rod needs an area all around it to optimally dissipate any voltage on it to the earth. If another ground rod that is electrically connected to the first ground rod is closer to the first ground rod than 7.6 meters, then the voltage from each ground rod is 'opposing' the voltage on the other ground rod. So it may actually be more effective to have four ground rods in a square pattern distanced about 7.6 meters apart than having several more ground rods spaced much closer together. In the Barbosa and Leal type device the goal may not necessarily be to have the lowest resistance connection to the earth, but on the other hand it may very well be, and wider ground rod spacing may be a better way to go.

The longer the ground rod, the more earth area will be utilized, so, for typical earth grounding purposes anyway, the longer the ground rod you can use the better. So an eight foot ground rod should be better than a six foot ground rod.

I see that Clarence is also earth grounding the neutral from his inverter with four ground rods. When I read through the Barbosa and Leal patent documents that were translated into English, I didn't see that they are mentioning grounding the neutral like that. If that is right, then it might also be worth a try to compare performance with the inverter neutral connected to ground rods, compared with the inverter neutral not connected to any ground rods at all.

I haven't tried building a Barbosa and Leal device (yet ), so the above is just some things to consider. Doing performance comparison tests with different arrangements as suggested above should help to determine if one arrangement is much better than another.

Clarence, what lead you to decide on a distance of three feet between ground rods?

Hello level,

unknown to all of you I have privy to actual stated by mouth recorded information direct FROM B&L THEMSELVES and their answer when questioned about the subject was 1 meter!!!!!!!

so that is where I came to use the 3 foot linked distance in the series connected rods!!!!!

I will NOT divulge my source to that information from B&L as that would violate the cofidentiality of that person and I will NEVER do such!!!!!!

with respect to the inverter neutral not being grounded at all you will simply have NO PERFORMANCE AT ALL!
I had stated way back at OU that this system was BUILT AS ITS OWN SWER system and that was why the rod system should be as FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE
FROM ANY MAINS GROUNDING so as to NOT pickup any stray voltage from SUCH!!!! as usual it is apparent there was no GRASP on that information!


thanks,


Clarence

[totoalas]

HELLO,

The core material is ferrite. it has a distinct advantage over laminated as far as I'm concerned.

thanks,

Clarence

[clarence]

Core material

Hi Clarence
what type of core material did you use ferrite or laminated as a friend reminded me before I buy the core
also can I use a 220 v ac 60 hz inverter and 220 v ac 60 hz toroid

thanks

HELLO,

The core material is ferrite. it has a distinct advantage over laminated as far as I'm concerned.

thanks,

Clarence

[totoalas]

Hi Clarence
what type of core material did you use ferrite or laminated as a friend reminded me before I buy the core
also can I use a 220 v ac 60 hz inverter and 220 v ac 60 hz toroid

thanks

[Dave45]

At first that seemed odd to me also but the water may tend to short out ground currents. While pure water is an insulator all it takes is a small amount of salt or impurity in water to turn it into a good conductor. Too much water may make input and return ground rods appear as one.

It would seem ground conditions in your specific area (moisture content) will be a factor in rod separation if ewizard's assumption is correct.

[level]

Ideal Spacing Between Ground Rods?

Hi,

Any advice the grounding network? I think this is the most critical part (my previous effort didn't work because of that). What is the spacing between the rods? I might only be able to go about 6 feet because I might hit bedrock; I read the spacing should be twice the rod length. Is there a way to check if the there is enough ground rods by checking the resistance between the neutral post at the inverter and the captor ground terminal?

Hello wayne49s. This is a very good question. In regards to earth grounding for electrical systems, such as electrical grounding for electrical panels, according to code the minimum distance between two ground rods is about two meters or about six feet. This is actually a compromise distance however. I have read that the optimal distance between two connected ground rods to get the least resistance to the earth is actually 7.6 meters or about 25 feet!

The reason for this is a ground rod needs an area all around it to optimally dissipate any voltage on it to the earth. If another ground rod that is electrically connected to the first ground rod is closer to the first ground rod than 7.6 meters, then the voltage from each ground rod is 'opposing' the voltage on the other ground rod. So it may actually be more effective to have four ground rods in a square pattern distanced about 7.6 meters apart than having several more ground rods spaced much closer together. In the Barbosa and Leal type device the goal may not necessarily be to have the lowest resistance connection to the earth, but on the other hand it may very well be, and wider ground rod spacing may be a better way to go.

The longer the ground rod, the more earth area will be utilized, so, for typical earth grounding purposes anyway, the longer the ground rod you can use the better. So an eight foot ground rod should be better than a six foot ground rod.

I see that Clarence is also earth grounding the neutral from his inverter with four ground rods. When I read through the Barbosa and Leal patent documents that were translated into English, I didn't see that they are mentioning grounding the neutral like that. If that is right, then it might also be worth a try to compare performance with the inverter neutral connected to ground rods, compared with the inverter neutral not connected to any ground rods at all.

I haven't tried building a Barbosa and Leal device (yet ), so the above is just some things to consider. Doing performance comparison tests with different arrangements as suggested above should help to determine if one arrangement is much better than another.

Clarence, what lead you to decide on a distance of three feet between ground rods?