Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[clarence]

Wrong words and message

Hello Clarence. How are things? Haven't been following very closely for quite some time, but as I have mentioned in the past, do you get the same results when you are not connected to the mains, but power it from batteries and an inverter instead? I think this is an important point that should be made clear before other people go spending a bunch of money trying to build it.

From what I understood, you say the power meter shows it is only using about 8 Watts from the mains (0.07A current draw), so if your setup really is over unity it should be able to power microwaves etc. using just a battery and low power inverter to power it. If powering from the inverter doesn't work the same at all as when you are powering from the mains, then for certain your extra power is coming from the mains, and is not real free energy. So, to make it clear for everyone else here, when you use only a battery and inverter to power it (no mains connection at all, anywhere), does your power meter still show just 0.07A draw from the inverter output while powering your microwave, or is the current draw from the inverter much higher when using the inverter? Your best bet to really be sure what is going on would be to measure the current draw from the 12V battery using a clamp on current meter over a battery wire (set to measure DC current), as those portable power meters can sometimes be fooled depending how you hook things up.

Hello Level,

Good to hear from you.
I am well aware of your past mentioning. It seems they are still the same.
At the present I am following the patent data from all the B&L archives that I have at my disposal. The present setup is a pure and simple design that uses that data.
Their system used a low amperage input from their local utility grid - so does this design.
Their low amperage Utility Grid input enabled their LARGE recovery from a certain number of ground rods. So does my setup.
At present I am content to continue to use it DAILY for my PERSONAL needs as I see fit. In this present course of time I continue to observe it and make upgrades as they are needed.

Now with respect to the battery/inverter thing - myself and a friend member have been working towards that goal for a considerable time now. If you had been curious about that you could have peeked in a time or two and you would already KNOW that.

In the course of time I will get to itwhen it suits me - not you.

With regards to the expenses of other fellow members that is not my decision - NOT yours - but strictly THEIRS. They can and will make that decision for themselves.

Have a good day,

Clarence

[level]

Hello BroMikey. You make it sound like I am a bad guy, but in reality all I have ever done is try to help Clarence to get a better understanding of what is really going on by trying to get him to do a very basic practical test. For some strange reason Clarence has balked against even doing such a simple test. Using only a battery and inverter as the power source (no mains connected in there anywhere) and measuring the battery current draw when powering something like an electric heater is a simple test that I was trying to get Clarence to do from the very beginning, and it should quickly and clearly show what is really going on. It really doesn't get more straightforward and simple than that.

[level]

Hello Clarence. Well I did check in once in a while, but just not so recently until now. If you think about it, using a battery and inverter as the power source instead of the mains should really not make any difference at all as far as powering something like a heater or toaster, but this would allow you to measure the current draw from the battery and see what the actual power consumption is when powering a load. Anyway, I hear you that you still are strongly resistant to doing such a simple test to see what is really going on, so I'll leave you with it.

If you are just throwing the power meter off (depends on the type of power meter you have) by just going from the mains hot to your earth ground rod array and bypassing the neutral wire, the power company may still detect it and that could get you in trouble with the power company, but you probably already know that.

[Coil]

Different take on setup

Hello Clarence & All
I viewed this setup from a different angle…not what the toroid transformers is putting in to the output side, but rather what it is doing to the input and more specifically to the GFCI. (Ground fault circuit interrupter).
The way that the toroid transformers are configured and connected is to prevent the GFCI from tripping. I think that:
1. The blue coil isn’t doing anything…. Or else preventing the GFCI from tripping.
2. Disconnecting any of the toroid transformer legs will cause the GFCI to trip.
3. Bypassing the hot wire on the GFCI and connecting the load to earth and hot will do the same as before.
4. The GFCI is not as safe as before.
I may be wrong….
Respectfully
Coil

[BroMikey]

Hello BroMikey. You make it sound like I am a bad guy, but in reality all I have ever done is try to help Clarence to get a better understanding of what is really going on by trying to get him to do a very basic practical test. For some strange reason Clarence has balked against even doing such a simple test. Using only a battery and inverter as the power source (no mains connected in there anywhere) and measuring the battery current draw when powering something like an electric heater is a simple test that I was trying to get Clarence to do from the very beginning, and it should quickly and clearly show what is really going on. It really doesn't get more straightforward and simple than that.

That is not true Level and you know it, those tests have all been made
time and time again but with other setups. This is an all new one and
it takes work and money to proceed.

You are going to have to hold it for awhile, please stop planting fear
and doubt with your half truths. If you had been here you would know
all of this, instead you wrote Clarence off for the past years thinking
he would never amount to anything.

Go back and read up on the past 2 years since you bailed out.

One more thing Level, QUESTION

What test would you make with this system like the patent calls for
to prove that 99.9999 percent of the energy comes from the earth?

And don't say battery and inverter over again, you really need to read up
before you talk. I don't think you are so bad, I think you are awesome.
You remind me of the masses, that is what you do.

All things are possible to them that believe. Let that sink
in, now go back and read, you missed everything.

[clarence]

Hello swamig

Hello SwamiG,

I see your forum approval finally went thru!

Good for you!

Now I won't have to send you the e-mail - Bravo!

Now go back and look at the recent thumbnail photos and you can see and look at everything.

Beautiful!

Clarence

[clarence]

Gfci

Hello Clarence & All
I viewed this setup from a different angle…not what the toroid transformers is putting in to the output side, but rather what it is doing to the input and more specifically to the GFCI. (Ground fault circuit interrupter).
The way that the toroid transformers are configured and connected is to prevent the GFCI from tripping. I think that:
1. The blue coil isn’t doing anything…. Or else preventing the GFCI from tripping.
2. Disconnecting any of the toroid transformer legs will cause the GFCI to trip.
3. Bypassing the hot wire on the GFCI and connecting the load to earth and hot will do the same as before.
4. The GFCI is not as safe as before.
I may be wrong….
Respectfully
Coil

Coil,

First of all my setup does not have a GFCI in it.
It is simply plugged into a wall outlet.
The 150 volt GDT serves as the safety feature- for voltage surges, lighting strikes, etc.
A direct connection to ground WILL cause the Breaker to trip.
I did disconnect Both of the toroid neutral legs and the system still runs as before HOWEVER when a sizable load
is placed on the system the BLUE wire Loop DOES SHOW increased Amperage THRU IT ALSO. The thought that it does nothing at all is you know what.
With the system reconnected as should be the lenz-less oscillation of the loop
THROUGH the ground return DOES enhance (PUMP) the energy from the ground. So it truly does serve it's purpose .

Clarence

[clarence]

Right!

Hello Clarence. Well I did check in once in a while, but just not so recently until now. If you think about it, using a battery and inverter as the power source instead of the mains should really not make any difference at all as far as powering something like a heater or toaster, but this would allow you to measure the current draw from the battery and see what the actual power consumption is when powering a load. Anyway, I hear you that you still are strongly resistant to doing such a simple test to see what is really going on, so I'll leave you with it.

If you are just throwing the power meter off (depends on the type of power meter you have) by just going from the mains hot to your earth ground rod array and bypassing the neutral wire, the power company may still detect it and that could get you in trouble with the power company, but you probably already know that.

Yeah-Right! Ha! Ha!

Clarence

[Coil]

Clarence

Thanks very much for clearing that issue.

Regards
Coil

[wantomake]

Just my results

Clarence and all you others,
This is only my results and I'll try to be clear as I can.

First understand I've not installed the "ground" ,mother earth , dirt, grid of 26 rods yet. I only have 5 copper coated grounding rods in place. And the connecting wires between each rod is too small.

But being the back yard FE hobbist that I am, there's no limit to what this coffee induced brain will attempt.

I did connect this above described setup to my 2k inverter (non-utility mains) with 2 parallel connected marine batteries.

As I posted, no tripping occurred and it pulled a little more voltage than from the utility mains. Also amperage was detected on the green return ground grid wire. This was the first time ever to see this result.

The main point here to All - we are measuring the amp "draw", amount, or however you term it, on the "green" return from earth,dirt, wire and the amp probe or fluke meter shows amperage. After two years of failed tests, setups, ideas, monies, failures, you name it; Clarence and I know what we see.

That's how you know. You build it and test it. All has been posted here. Build it and help us understand how to improve this setup. There are many smarter than myself here, so please help.

wantomake
PS My coffee and I will finish this morning in peace and thought.

[clarence]

Bravo !

Clarence and all you others,
This is only my results and I'll try to be clear as I can.

First understand I've not installed the "ground" ,mother earth , dirt, grid of 26 rods yet. I only have 5 copper coated grounding rods in place. And the connecting wires between each rod is too small.

But being the back yard FE hobbist that I am, there's no limit to what this coffee induced brain will attempt.

I did connect this above described setup to my 2k inverter (non-utility mains) with 2 parallel connected marine batteries.

As I posted, no tripping occurred and it pulled a little more voltage than from the utility mains. Also amperage was detected on the green return ground grid wire. This was the first time ever to see this result.

The main point here to All - we are measuring the amp "draw", amount, or however you term it, on the "green" return from earth,dirt, wire and the amp probe or fluke meter shows amperage. After two years of failed tests, setups, ideas, monies, failures, you name it; Clarence and I know what we see.

That's how you know. You build it and test it. All has been posted here. Build it and help us understand how to improve this setup. There are many smarter than myself here, so please help.

wantomake
PS My coffee and I will finish this morning in peace and thought.

After

Wantomake,

Appreciate the VERY helpful AND clear information to all!!!!!!

The message should be help-full to ALL concerned.

Thanks much Ole friend!

Clarence

[level]

Clarence and all you others,

The main point here to All - we are measuring the amp "draw", amount, or however you term it, on the "green" return from earth,dirt, wire and the amp probe or fluke meter shows amperage. After two years of failed tests, setups, ideas, monies, failures, you name it; Clarence and I know what we see.

Hello wantomake. The B&L circuit incorporates an earth ground loop so it is a given that there will be current flowing through the ground wire. That is expected and in no way indicates over unity is or is not occurring. Earth is a conductor, so it will conduct current. The more ground rods you have in an array, the lower the earth resistance losses should be, and the more current that can be conducted. Measuring current on the ground wire should happen whether you are using the mains or a battery and inverter.

I demonstrated this early on in this thread by lighting a light bulb using only the mains hot wire going to a light bulb, going to a very short rusty ground rod. The current was flowing through the ground from the short ground rod back to the grounded neutral at the house.
http://www.energeticforum.com/274649-post433.html
Having a ground current is expected, since the B&L setup incorporates a ground loop.

How to properly test this kind of setup:
The simple way to see if there might be over unity is when powering with a battery and inverter, you want to measure the battery current on one of the battery lines going to the inverter using a clamp on current meter set to DC. If you measured say 10A, you would multiply the 10A by your battery voltage to get the power consumed from the battery. Then compare this input power to the approximate power of the load you are powering. Ideally you would also measure the exact power the load is consuming as well to be sure, but for a quick test you can just do an estimate if you know what you are doing, to get a general idea how your circuit is performing. You don't want to use the mains for this type of testing because the neutral wire on the mains is typically grounded at the utility box in many countries, and you won't be able to tell what the real source of the power is in that case. If you ignore this and power from the mains, your tests won't likely tell you anything much useful.

Why am I bothering to mention this again here? Simply because the setup is not cheap, and I should also mention that using this type of setup there is a very real chance of getting bad shocks or electrocuted if you touch the wrong thing. I would suggest newcomers read through the earlier part of this thread from the beginning to get the history on this. Basically, the bottom line is if you are using the mains to power the setup, you can't say anything definite about whether there might be over unity or not. You need to use a battery and inverter and do the very simple test I have described to test for over unity. It doesn't get any more straight forward and simpler than that.

[wantomake]

Wantomake,

Appreciate the VERY helpful AND clear information to all!!!!!!

The message should be help-full to ALL concerned.

Thanks much Ole friend!

Clarence

Clarence,
Sorry, maybe too much coffee and not enough sleep.

Question my ole friend, you using the 150 volt GDT? I tried the 90 volt GDT when testing the inverter/battery connection. But after connecting a second load to the setup that 90 volt heated up to like 120°+ real quick.
I'm sure it's because my ground grid (dirt) is too small and it tried to do that "fool the meter thing".
That test proved more the extracting of energy from mother earth.

Work (part time retired), life, and the preppers, I can't get caught up here. Yes the end of the world is near cause of the crazies in North Korea. Not my view point of course.

My brains and energy is stretch thin these days !!!!!
wantomake

[level]

By the way, I am the guy who started this thread. I am open minded about over unity and do my own experimenting. I am not a debunker in any way. Don't listen to BroMikey. He is off in his own world. He seems to enjoy attacking anyone he doesn't agree with.

If a B&L type setup can produce over unity, then that is great. However, due to issues with potential ground loops back to the mains, if you don't take the steps I have described above when testing this sort of setup, you can easily be fooled as to what is really going on. The question people should ask them self is are you really interested in understanding if there might be over unity there or not? If so, I would suggest you read what I wrote in my comments above about how to properly test this kind of setup. You need to be clear on what the potential issues are with this sort of setup and how to avoid them if you want to really understand how things are working. Most important of all, be safe.

[wantomake]

OU

Level,
Thanks for starting this thread by the way. And good of you to remind everyone to be careful with this setup.

As for overunity, I've not mentioned that word here. I've only posted what my meter and clamp have shown. I do know how to test the output from the battery and thanks for that. As I posted my ground grid is only 5 rods so I can only get .4 amps from my inverter but also the same from the green ground grid wire .4 amps. When I get to my shop I'll take measurements as you stated. But without the full 26 rods in the ground, what's the help in that?

Clarence and I totally understand the getting fooled by this looping back to the neutral of the mains grid. I went as far as to just quit completely with this setup because of being fooled by that "looping".

No I think of you as helping here not debunking. I'm here to learn and grow.

But I feel like proper understanding and measurements can't be done without the complete build.

wantomake