Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[clarence]

Wrong amount

Clarence,
Thanks for the information. That makes good sense.
26 grounding rods
26 connectors for wire to rod
26 rods at three feet apart in circle = 78 feet +-
78 feet #6 awg (green) wire (welding cable)on eBay 40' ($27) x 2
10 - 15 feet(?) From shop to circle #6 awg wire

Are my calculations right? Maybe. But it will take me a while to finish this. But will see what I can do.

Please everyone keep building. If this(?) can work from an inverter/battery setup, then if power outage of any nature happens you'll still have power.

If I remember correctly B&L started with this idea. There's more after this.
wantomake
Edit: I guess my coffee budget will get cut......well that's not going to happen !!!!

Wantomake,

26 feet X 3.14 = 81,64 feet plus your 15 foot lead in=96.64 feet you will need.
EDIT: DAMN were on page 54 - OMG. that was fast!


Later

Clarence

[digits10]

Two sets of gound rods?

Clarence,
Hope you don't mind the continued questions. I've got 25 more ground rods ordered. That will put me at 28 total. If I put them in similar to yours, but only do one side of my yard, do you think I'll have problems if I end up needing to add more later? If I put these in & connect with a single wire, and end up adding 32 more later, do you think I can just connect them together at the joint (two connections in order to keep the loop configuration)? Or, does it really need to be a single uncut piece of wire through the whole loop?

[wantomake]

Quick update

Clarence,
With your success, it gave me the inspiration I needed to put in 3 8' ground rods tonight. I'm waiting for the 150v GDT's to come in. Can't wait to try this thing! I've got a pure sine wave inverter, so I'm very interested in trying it with that also.

To All,
I did try my inverter/battery setup to satisfy curiosity. It powered everything but it seemed to pull a few tenths more amperage from the inverter.

No smoke and nothing fried,
wantomake

[digits10]

Waiting

Well, it looks like it will take me a week to get everything and then some time to drive in those ground rods!

Clarence, have you tried this using your inverter & not being connected to the grid at all? Just curious if it works the same way.

[clarence]

You can add as you wish

Clarence,
Hope you don't mind the continued questions. I've got 25 more ground rods ordered. That will put me at 28 total. If I put them in similar to yours, but only do one side of my yard, do you think I'll have problems if I end up needing to add more later? If I put these in & connect with a single wire, and end up adding 32 more later, do you think I can just connect them together at the joint (two connections in order to keep the loop configuration)? Or, does it really need to be a single uncut piece of wire through the whole loop?

digits10

You can always add on as you like - as long as you keep the WHOLE THING IN ONE CIRCLE type configuration with only one feed line connected to it.
The wire should always be the same size. the number of connections you have to make get the circle built is not important.

Clarence

[clarence]

Marvelous simply marvelous

To All,
I did try my inverter/battery setup to satisfy curiosity. It powered everything but it seemed to pull a few tenths more amperage from the inverter.

No smoke and nothing fried,
wantomake

Wantomake ,

Marvelous Ole Friend- just marvelous. when you get the chance you might give the directions on how you did it to the others.
I know they will be on pins and needles.

EDIT : IMHOP the extra amperage on the inverter was because the battery/inverter was acting as its own power company.

Bless You J

Clarence

[clarence]

Question

To All,
I did try my inverter/battery setup to satisfy curiosity. It powered everything but it seemed to pull a few tenths more amperage from the inverter.

No smoke and nothing fried,
wantomake

Wantomake,

What size inverter and does it have a GFCI plug in or no?

Clarence

[FRANKLIN]

I agree

Wantomake ,

Marvelous Ole Friend- just marvelous. when you get the chance you might give the directions on how you did it to the others.
I know they will be on pins and needles.

EDIT : IMHOP the extra amperage on the inverter was because the battery/inverter was acting as its own power company.

Bless You J

Clarence

Yes I agree.
maybe somebody could write a list of the materials and the summary of the steps to build this one?

I see the two torids are connected to the positive wire from the energy from the house?
and the blue wire is the closed buckle?
also I see the blue wire has 15 windings around the toroid but are in opposite direction?
what I dId not understand is the withe pipe, it is being used just to keep in place the two toroids?

hope you can answer me
it is a success
FRANKLIN

[wantomake]

Wantomake ,

Marvelous Ole Friend- just marvelous. when you get the chance you might give the directions on how you did it to the others.
I know they will be on pins and needles.

EDIT : IMHOP the extra amperage on the inverter was because the battery/inverter was acting as its own power company.

Bless You J

Clarence

Clarence and All,
My inverter is 2k watt with marine battery bank.

The directions is: I unplugged from mains power then turned and plugged into inverter. This inverter does shut off if a short or overload is present.
But like I posted- no improvement. I've got to put a descent ground grid in the correct configuration.

wantomake

[wantomake]

????

Wantomake,

26 feet X 3.14 = 81,64 feet plus your 15 foot lead in=96.64 feet you will need.
EDIT: DAMN were on page 54 - OMG. that was fast!


Later

Clarence

Clarence,
You posted the rods are 3 feet apart and minimum of 26 rods.
So 26 rods @ 3 ft is 78 feet right. I don't understand your math. But I'm enjoying football game and some brewskys. Will look at it tomorrow.

wantomake

[clarence]

I USED THE CIRCUMFERENCE FORMULA - 3.14 x 26

Clarence,
You posted the rods are 3 feet apart and minimum of 26 rods.
So 26 rods @ 3 ft is 78 feet right. I don't understand your math. But I'm enjoying football game and some brewskys. Will look at it tomorrow.

wantomake

Wantomake ,

Its best to use the formula for the circumference of a circle which is 3.14 times 26 (diameter) .
Instead of cutting the # 6 AWG wire or trying to thread all the ground rod clamps onto the wire and chasing them along as you go - put all the rods in the ground first. Start with the one that is going to have the feed line into shop or house and strip a 2 inch space on the end - clamp it tight and go to the next rod mark where the wire meets that rod and remove another 2 inch space of insulation the make the space of wire into a U bend and poke it into the clamp on the rod and tighten the bolt on the clamp and move on -
doing them all in the same manner!

Believe me you will need all of the 81 to 82 feet PLUS the 15 feet for the lead in connection.
BEEN THERE DONE THAt!

I like the brewskys but my only game is life.

Later,

Clarence

[clarence]

Just look closer

Yes I agree.
maybe somebody could write a list of the materials and the summary of the steps to build this one?

I see the two torids are connected to the positive wire from the energy from the house?
and the blue wire is the closed buckle?
also I see the blue wire has 15 windings around the toroid but are in opposite direction?
what I dId not understand is the withe pipe, it is being used just to keep in place the two toroids?

hope you can answer me
it is a success
FRANKLIN

FRANKLIN,

First off All toroid transformers have TWO LEADS . Each one of them has a BLACK and a WHITE lead.
The BLACK Leads go to the HOT WIRE input.
The WHITE LEADS go to the NEUTRAL WIRE input.

Second - I have no idea of what you mean by a BUCKLE.
The CORRECT word for this devise is CLOSED LOOP.

Third - The blue wire has ONLY 14 wraps (turns).
The wraps ARE OPPOSITE each other with respect to each toroid transformer.

Fourth - The PVC pipe is a CRADLE from other years of build and I just used it to keep the two toroids JAMMED TOGETHER and not roll around or fall all over the place. The two toroids have to be opposed to each other AND TIGHT AGAINST EACH OTHER.

Fifth - I used 25 feet of the BLUE wire # 12 AWG tinned multi stranded wire.


Best, Clarence

[clarence]

Fuse results

Put a couple of 1A fuses in the wires of the cord from the KAW meter. Then pull 27A current out to run your appliances.

If the fuses don't blow, that should put that argument to rest.

Cadman,

A 1 amp fuse on the neutral supply to the Toroids works without Blowing.
The fuse for the Line (HOT) leg that feeds the Toroids AND THEN CONTINUES ON as a LINE supply for loads is a MIXED ball game.
For a 25 amp TOTAL load it requires a 20 amp fuse and it will heat a little but NOT blow.

I spent time doing the math and it seems that for the said 25 amp load total
75% comes through the mains Line supply - the OTHER 25% comes THROUGH THE GROUND RETURN.
That's why a clamp meter would show the total 25 amps for the load.
It does NOT differentiate between the two sources but only shows the sum total for the load it is measuring.
Whether or not it makes sense - that is what is happening.

Best of the day to you sir!

Clarence

[clarence]

Voltage drop

Clarence,
You posted the rods are 3 feet apart and minimum of 26 rods.
So 26 rods @ 3 ft is 78 feet right. I don't understand your math. But I'm enjoying football game and some brewskys. Will look at it tomorrow.

wantomake

Wantomake ,

I did some research on voltage drop.
The thumbnail shows their main comment from the NEC - National Electric Company .

Seems like for the series parallel LOADS like I am doing (and yourself)
that the EXPECTED voltage drop should be about 3% and up to 8% in some cases.

They also stated that for the couple of front loads VS the rest of the loads that using a larger circuit WIRE SIZE for these up front loads HELPS to MINIMIZE the expected voltage drop to the around 3% range, the wire size to the follow on loads ca be at the smaller normal wire size and still keep within the 3%.

In a nut shell- when a person would use two 100 foot lite weight extension cords to an outbuilding light and then switch on the light it would barely glow.
Then when they bought a heavy duty extension cord and used it as the FIRST extension cord to power the light and switched on the light it was as bright as expected. The ohm resistance in the first configuration created
the voltage drop and excessive current draw.


In my case I need to upgrade the wire size of the red wire from the toroid connection to the output terminal from # 10 AWG to #6 AWG and make it MATCH the Ground return wire size all the way to the load terminal.

This should help me to have less current draw and power MORE loads at the same time.

Will see!

Clarence

[digits10]

On power inverter

Cadman,

A 1 amp fuse on the neutral supply to the Toroids works without Blowing.
The fuse for the Line (HOT) leg that feeds the Toroids AND THEN CONTINUES ON as a LINE supply for loads is a MIXED ball game.
For a 25 amp TOTAL load it requires a 20 amp fuse and it will heat a little but NOT blow.

I spent time doing the math and it seems that for the said 25 amp load total
75% comes through the mains Line supply - the OTHER 25% comes THROUGH THE GROUND RETURN.
That's why a clamp meter would show the total 25 amps for the load.
It does NOT differentiate between the two sources but only shows the sum total for the load it is measuring.
Whether or not it makes sense - that is what is happening.

Best of the day to you sir!

Clarence

From this, it sounds like much less net power would be available when using a battery/inverter setup not connected to the grid?