A1Mo-Gen: Tesla's Gift "The Electromagnetic Reactor"

[Midaztouch]

Ran my motor on a DC Power Supply today!

After a long ride with many big bumps and going over many curbs, a wire came loose and got lodged under the magnets. I heard something scraping when I was running the motor in their lobby but I had to play it cool and didn't want touch/adjust the motor. I just let it spin and smiled.

The engineer staff drag me up 2 long fights of stairs and all the way across the warehouse at top speed! I was carrying the 45lbs A1MoGen. They said 5mins that's it... I was a little upset with their treatment but hey, beggars can't be choosy. Anyway, I only needed 3 mins and the A1MoGen got checked on a DC Power Supply.

The results from the Vid

Lowest setting = 1.9volts @ 21amps...40watts starts RPMs(a lot of mechanical drag)
Highest setting = 20volts @ 21amps

I had to stop going up in voltage. I heard a loud "PING" in the motor. I thought about, going up in voltage after the loud ping but I decide to live and fight another day ... The "ping" was the wire lodged under the magnet. When I got home, I pull the wire out and it ran smoothly/no scraping... Instead of using all 28 coils, I will have 27 coils, for now...

Conclusion: The A1MoGen was a success on the DC Power Supply. In my opinion, it's a VIABLE high-performance electric motor!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Got carried away on the main thread and forgot to post the vid here.

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xwcPckoSbtA[/VIDEO]

[sampojo]

Question on broken coil

Hey Midaz, so you broke a coil wire on the test? Did I get that right? I gather it is not like the last coil you wound and and can then be easily rewound (not that lucky) so you are going ahead with the open coil? I'd try a solder patch if nothing else. I thought these imperials used hedges so they won't slip out. Do you have your rotor marked so that you know how many coils down from the last one wound it is? Down 2 or 3, you only need to do the last three over. Usually it is always one of the last to be wound that slip out too.

[Midaztouch]

Hey Midaz, so you broke a coil wire on the test? Did I get that right? I gather it is not like the last coil you wound and and can then be easily rewound (not that lucky) so you are going ahead with the open coil? I'd try a solder patch if nothing else. I thought these imperials used hedges so they won't slip out. Do you have your rotor marked so that you know how many coils down from the last one wound it is? Down 2 or 3, you only need to do the last three over. Usually it is always one of the last to be wound that slip out too.

Hey Sam

I took the motor apart to to assess the damage

1.) The 16awg wire didn't snap but it got severely damaged. Luckily it was from the last coil. I used fiberglass hedges and they side in and out smoothly. I had to go over many curbs and the road were bumpy on my bicycle. Some hedges slid down and the wire looped out.

2.) Two magnets were chipped by the wire. I have a new extra housing. I Thank GOD for Imperial Electric sending me two.

3.) Damaged a lead wire. Don't know when and how that happened.

Basically, everything is fixable.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[DadHav]

What's up, Watts R Up

Got carried away on the main thread and forgot to post the vid here.

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xwcPckoSbtA[/VIDEO]

Richie, Do I understand what I saw? The power supply had an output setting of 2 volts with a maximum current limit of 40 amps. The monitor voltage of the running motor was 1.9 volts and was drawing over 20 amps with no load? Did you happen to notice the amp draw at 26 volts before you shut the power supply down? I'm just guessing but I wouldn't expect an OEM motor to draw less than 20 amps at it's full voltage specification if there was no load. I could be all wrong and I hope your up coming tests will prove it so.
John

[Midaztouch]

Richie, Do I understand what I saw? The power supply had an output setting of 2 volts with a maximum current limit of 40 amps. The monitor voltage of the running motor was 1.9 volts and was drawing over 20 amps with no load? Did you happen to notice the amp draw at 26 volts before you shut the power supply down? I'm just guessing but I wouldn't expect an OEM motor to draw less than 20 amps at it's full voltage specification if there was no load. I could be all wrong and I hope your up coming tests will prove it so.
John

Hey John

First, there was a 18 awg wire between the rotor & magnet, mechanical drag.

The motor was drawing around 20amps the whole time... Would you think that is more or less than an OEM?

I said go up to 26v in the vid but we only got to 20v.(head engineer & staff didnt want any to do with my motor, DIFFICULT situation!) After that short run the motor case was normal room temp... Now saying that, the motor will be very warm to the touch after running 12.5v - 13v @ 1900 - 2000rpms for 20mins... The rotor is not balanced. Could that be a cause heat?

My 36ah car battery is dead, under 12v, in 40mins...

Sparking becomes less the more you run the motor... But in the same breath, the higher the voltage the more the sparking.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Some magnet damage from the wire durning the run.

[Midaztouch]

Pulled the A1MoGen apart and did repairs.

1.) I had to threw out the coil what was damaged. The damage was right at the center section of the coil. The replacement coil is 15 turns.. It's all the 16awg I had left.

2.) Swapped out the damage rotor housing. Had to use some oil and "the persuader", a rubber hammer, to massage out the kinks.

3.) Change the positive lead that was damaged.

4.) Tighten the screws that hold the brushes in place. Due to the heavy vibrations, many were loose.

5.) Cleaned out and up the commutators.

Adjusted the timing to 2000rpm @ 13volts. The sparking was just like the first day I made the A1MoGen... Sparking and ruff running should subside when the brushes seat again.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[DadHav]

Hey John

First, there was a 18 awg wire between the rotor & magnet, mechanical drag.

The motor was drawing around 20amps the whole time... Would you think that is more or less than an OEM?

I said go up to 26v in the vid but we only got to 20v.(head engineer & staff didnt want any to do with my motor, DIFFICULT situation!) After that short run the motor case was normal room temp... Now saying that, the motor will be very warm to the touch after running 12.5v - 13v @ 1900 - 2000rpms for 20mins... The rotor is not balanced. Could that be a cause heat?

My 36ah car battery is dead, under 12v, in 40mins...

Sparking becomes less the more you run the motor... But in the same breath, the higher the voltage the more the sparking.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Some magnet damage from the wire durning the run.

Hey Richie. I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with the OEM motor and especially not a modified motor of that size. I wouldn't think the balance would cause a large increase in the heat but it can make testing pretty uncomfortable right? I hope when someone comes up with some accurate tests that they end up being positive. The low voltage test got my attention though, but I would have liked to see low current as well. Asking to much right?
Good Luck
John

[Midaztouch]

Hey Richie. I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with the OEM motor and especially not a modified motor of that size. I wouldn't think the balance would cause a large increase in the heat but it can make testing pretty uncomfortable right? I hope when someone comes up with some accurate tests that they end up being positive. The low voltage test got my attention though, but I would have liked to see low current as well. Asking to much right?
Good Luck
John

John

The thing that catches my eyes is, how fast the 12v battery dies.
Good and cheap discount 12v car battery.


I made some repairs and ran/"break in" the A1MoGen for 1hr 40.
Here are the results on fresh car batteries after the rebuild:

Starting volts = 13.5
Cold motor start = 1860rpms
Max RPMs = 2250 warmed up/hot
End volts = 11.94 ( as soon as it gets to the ending voltage, the RPMs drop drastically)
No load = 35 mins
End Battery voltage after a 30 mins rest = 12.13v

Here is the specs from the OEM: Permanent Magnet Motor - 56 Frame


Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

The "detailed information" for the charger I bought is in all Japaneses. (Difficult to understand)

The charger is 12v @ 15amps but the battery information said it should be charged @ 4.5amps.

The charger says that the battery is usually ready to in 1hour... But the battery info said that the battery would need 10hr - 12hrs to charge.

Maybe the batteries are quick charged only???

[HuntingRoss]

My 36ah car battery is dead, under 12v, in 40mins...

A fully charged 36ah battery going dead in 40 mins equates to 54A...@ 12v equates to 648W.

Keep Hunting

mark

[HuntingRoss]

My 36ah car battery is dead, under 12v, in 40mins...

A fully charged 36ah battery going dead in 40 mins equates to 54A...@ 12v equates to 648W.

OMG... It's Captain Obvious!!!

For real!? You are so smart! A Genius, you are! I never would have figured that out, without you! Thank you teaching me something new! You are really awesome! Nope, your #s are off! I'm using lead acid, NOT a DC Power supply

Ross, just like I told you before, don't come around here. Go play in the middle of a busy street/main page. I don't need your thoughts... At all!

Go open your own thread.

So to recap :

1 - A 36ah car battery is 'dead' in '40 mins' and the icon used was 'confused'.
2 - An estimate of power consumption was calculated.
3 - And the response is - 'I never would have figured that out'...

Well obviously, otherwise no need for the 'hanging' question followed by the 'confused' icon. The 'no load' power consumption of the motor is taking the 36ah battery down in 40 minutes.

4 - And 'I'm using lead acid, NOT a DC Power supply'.

That was explicit in the comment 36ah car battery.

And finally. What are my '#s' and why are they 'off'

Happy Hunting

mark

[DadHav]

John and All

Permanent Magnet Motor - 56 Frame
Brochure: http://www.imperialelectric.com/pdfs/imperial_pmm.pdf

I want to highlight this... Please look at the brochure on the OEMs homepage.

OEM #P56 LD 009

5hp/3.7kw (36v X 128ah = 4608w)

Max torque = 11ft/lbs.... 15Nm

Max Amps = 128

36volts = 2450rpms
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The A1MoGen will match the OEMs 2450RPMs on 15volts...
(When I do a complete rebuild, the way I really want it, the volts will be lower)


To the OEMs torque of 15Nm is no problem!

And let's look at AMPs and use the OEMs spec of 3700watts and 15volts for the A1MoGen to match the OEMs 2450rpms @ 36v.

3700watts \ 15v = 247amps.... The A1MoGen on 247amps...that's torque! But it would never use that much.

Conclusion: I believe, Electrical horsepower rating is secondary for the A1MoGen.... Torque is the most important!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

John, I put my money/bet on the rabbit.

Hello Richie, I'll probably be stating the obvious because I don't read every word or even every post but let me drop a few observations and you can see if there's something worthwhile extracting. Your battery drain isn't unusual is it? A 36 ah capacity battery that depletes in 40 minutes under load means the load was about 24 amps to start and likely went lower as voltage dropped. That's what the power supply showed as current draw with your motor under test no?
You may be damaging your battery with a large charger. I think if you check the rate for keeping a LAB in top condition would to charge and discharge at C-20 rates. That would be about 1.8 amps. Of course this would make the battery very impractical to use and you would need to use the Turtle technique. The people selling batteries want to sell them as fast as they can be replaced. LiPo is the way to go. If you have a meter on your charger see if it is actually charging at it's maximum rate.
Your Rabbit can duplicate the same RPM as the OEM at nearly half the voltage right? That would be wonderful if it didn't just mean the rabbit has twice the KV of the OEM. In my opinion no one since the start of the motor project has ever proven that the modified motor can produce the same horsepower and RPM as the OEM while drawing less wattage. I proved to myself the opposite on every motor mod I tried and posted video showing how important it was to understand what RPM's per volt (KV) actually means and that it doesn't mean the motor is stronger and more efficient if it's faster. I never updated the video because results didn't change for me. What's different about me is I don't fade away into the woodwork. I'll stick to what I believe and see, until someone proves something otherwise. I hope they do. I hope that person is you. I'll make a video of me dropping the confetti from my R/C plane as I promised Raul.
Good luck
John

[grounded]

is there any way to get this motor to self run ?
ive been experimenting a bit with the charge side of the circuit, to see, and came to this conclusion. (by no means accurate) .. just what i noticed.

- charge wires disconnected = normal speed

- charge power recycled back into motor = double speed

- charging separate battery = half speed

dissapointed about the half speed charging... is there any way round this ? .. by wrapping the coils differently, or using diodes on the wires, or something ?

i know you mentioned in one of your video's about using it as a generator, and it creating drag.

looking forward to the next update. it looks like your bike is pretty much ready to run

[Midaztouch]

Hello Richie, I'll probably be stating the obvious because I don't read every word or even every post but let me drop a few observations and you can see if there's something worthwhile extracting.

Thank you for always keeping things, around these motors, in prospective

Your battery drain isn't unusual is it? A 36 ah capacity battery that depletes in 40 minutes under load means the load was about 24 amps to start and likely went lower as voltage dropped. That's what the power supply showed as current draw with your motor under test no?

Yes, the DC power supply showed around 21 amps steady under no load. That was with the wire stuck causing friction. I was hoping that the amp draw would have been allot less with it out.

You may be damaging your battery with a large charger.

I bought the best cheapest batteries I could find... Just for simple tests before I spent real money.

I think if you check the rate for keeping a LAB in top condition would to charge and discharge at C-20 rates. That would be about 1.8 amps. Of course this would make the battery very impractical to use and you would need to use the Turtle technique. The people selling batteries want to sell them as fast as they can be replaced.

Agreed.

LiPo is the way to go.

The A1MoGen was the first successful 4 stator motor tested on a power supply. Now that I know these motors are ready. I want lipos.

If you have a meter on your charger see if it is actually charging at it's maximum rate.

again, I bought the best & cheapest charger I could find. No meters

Your Rabbit can duplicate the same RPM as the OEM at nearly half the voltage right?

Yes

That would be wonderful if it didn't just mean the rabbit has twice the KV of the OEM. In my opinion no one since the start of the motor project has ever proven that the modified motor can produce the same horsepower and RPM as the OEM while drawing less wattage.

Yes, you are absolutely correct in your statement. I didn't like anything that was being displayed. In the past, the only design that I liked for torque was the North/South wind but it lost in the Head to Head against the OEM because it was too power hungry... That's was when I knew that the I was correct with the singular coils the proceed to build the A1MoGen.

I proved to myself the opposite on every motor mod I tried and posted video showing how important it was to understand what RPM's per volt (KV) actually means and that it doesn't mean the motor is stronger and more efficient if it's faster.

but you haven't tried it MY way... Singular coils

I never updated the video because results didn't change for me. What's different about me is I don't fade away into the woodwork.

There was no need for you to. Unless Gary can prove the super efficient sweet spot. I still support your finding against the Pair Wind.

I'll stick to what I believe and see, until someone proves something otherwise. I hope they do. I hope that person is you. I'll make a video of me dropping the confetti from my R/C plane as I promised Raul.
Good luck
John

People want to build my motor but they are confused. Give the singular coils a try.
Saving the best for last, type deal


Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[Midaztouch]

is there any way to get this motor to self run ?
ive been experimenting a bit with the charge side of the circuit, to see, and came to this conclusion. (by no means accurate) .. just what i noticed.

- charge wires disconnected = normal speed

- charge power recycled back into motor = double speed

- charging separate battery = half speed

dissapointed about the half speed charging... is there any way round this ? .. by wrapping the coils differently, or using diodes on the wires, or something ?

i know you mentioned in one of your video's about using it as a generator, and it creating drag.

looking forward to the next update. it looks like your bike is pretty much ready to run

OU and self runner has never been proven. It's a goal.

This thread is about my theory/thesis, the way I see/saw how Tesla would have made a motor. The A1MoGen, singular coils, is the only way to add brushes and collect the collapsing field's energy.

Yeah, the bike is basically ready

Midaz

[HuntingRoss]

According to your set up ...

Pay very close attention to UFOs wording! His Pair Wind design, limits motors with 4 or more magnets.

Paying closer attention the comment was qualified and nowhere did it imply the interpretation you have taken.

Keep Hunting

mark