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A1Mo-Gen: Tesla's Gift "The Electromagnetic Reactor"

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  • Originally posted by citfta View Post
    @ grounded

    For all practical purposes there is no delay in the flow of electricity from one end of the coil to the other end. The wire is not like a pipe where you put water into one end and have to wait for it to get to the other end. It is more like a pipe that is already full of water. So as soon as you put water in one end it pushes water out of the other end. Or you can think of it this way. If you push on one end of an iron bar how long does it take for the other end to move? The copper wire is already full of electrons so as soon as you apply a voltage to the wire the electrons start moving. There is no real delay except in an inductor which is something we don't need to go into right now. Even with an inductor as soon as current starts to flow it flows all at once with electrons going into one end of the wire and at the same time other electrons coming out the other end.

    Your idea of winding a coil on the armature with one end being clockwise and the other end being counter clockwise will give a north pole on both sides when the proper polarity of voltage is applied. However, you failed to consider what happens when the armature rotates 180 degrees. Now the brushes will be supplying a voltage of the opposite polarity and so you would have south poles on both sides of the armature and the motor would try to reverse.

    I hope Midaz doesn't mind me chiming in on his thread. Just trying to clear up some confusion.

    Respectfully,
    Carroll
    Ditto. We crossed in the ether.

    m

    Comment


    • Here it is. Lifted unedited from UFO's thread.

      It wasn't my intention to post further on this topic but I promised to wait a few days after my comments have been misrepresented.

      I will not dilute my point by picking apart UFO's interpretation of what I have said and drawn on this topic. Suffice to say that interpretation is wrong.

      I will reinforce what I have said firstly by thanking Jeffy for correctly stating my point and thereby assisting UFO in creating the 5 frame film strip. Which I agree with and this does represent what I have been saying.

      And secondly I have uploaded another graphic to further reinforce the following paragraphs.

      There are fixed parameters in our motors and there are variable parameters.

      Fixed being -
      1) Stator Bisectors
      2) Comm Segment Width
      3) Brush Width
      4) Number of Poles and therefore Pole angle
      5) Choice of Coil Structure (pairs or groups) establishes the Coil Bisector Angle. That is the angle between the first coil and final coil bisector

      Variable being -
      6) The 'sweep angle' or 'time on the brush' where the comm segment sweeps over the brush.

      For Single Coil and First Coil Pairs or Groups, we set the bisector at 5 past the North Stator Bisector (NSB) as the 'ON' time. This means that ALL coil structures attached to that connected comm segment are also 'ON'.

      For Pairs and Groups the Final Coil extends towards the South Stator Bisector (SSB) by an angle dependant on the chosen wind. For the image below I have used a Coil Bisector Angle of 120 which would represent a '4 Pole Pair' on a 12 Pole motor.

      The discussion on this particular aspect of winding, for me, was to estimate when P2 coils are 'OFF' so as to avoid the P2 'ON' coils bisector being within 20 of the SSB or possibly even past the SSB. This scenario will cause a drop in efficiency of the chosen wind.

      It becomes obvious when considering the mechanics of this, that one can consider the P2 'OFF' angle from when P1 just attaches to the brush, OR better still, just calculate it from the P1 'sweep angle' as it connects and disconnects from the brush.

      It is clear that the angle of ONE comm segment 'sweeping the brush' is the angle that the Final Coil Bisector advances towards the SSB from connection to disconnection. There is only ONE SWEEP ANGLE for a motor and it is a direct function of the OEM motor given by the width of the comm segment and the brush width in degrees.

      The image below, as before, indicates the comm segment is just 'ON' by 1 and 'sweeps' for 57 where it is 0 'OFF'. It indicates where a Single Coil will be 'OFF' after 57 and it indicates where the Final Coil of a Pair or Group will be 'OFF' after 57. For a 12 pole 4 pole Pair wind, we can see it passes the SSB and is unsatisfactory for 12 pole motors.

      [IMG][/IMG]

      Happy Hunting

      mark

      Comment


      • Originally posted by citfta View Post
        For all practical purposes there is no delay in the flow of electricity from one end of the coil to the other end. The wire is not like a pipe where you put water into one end and have to wait for it to get to the other end. It is more like a pipe that is already full of water. So as soon as you put water in one end it pushes water out of the other end.
        ah ok. rapido then.

        Originally posted by citfta View Post
        Your idea of winding a coil on the armature with one end being clockwise and the other end being counter clockwise will give a north pole on both sides when the proper polarity of voltage is applied. However, you failed to consider what happens when the armature rotates 180 degrees. Now the brushes will be supplying a voltage of the opposite polarity and so you would have south poles on both sides of the armature and the motor would try to reverse.
        ah yeah, your right, i didnt take into account the end of the wind, is still up top, on the single comm. doh.

        ok, thats settled then, lol, dual comm is superior

        Comment


        • how do neodymium mags suit this design ?

          could you possibly open up a motor, and sling the 4 ceramic horse shoe mags, and fit rectangular neo's in ? ... for more power ?

          i heard a few people say you can get more power this way, but apparently they dont generate electricity as well as the ceramics ?

          i dont know much about it tho, just what ive heard from a few people.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by grounded View Post
            ok, thats settled then, lol, dual comm is superior
            With respect grounded, all this proves is single comm can't do all north.

            Happy Hunting

            mark

            Comment


            • i went full retard
              Last edited by grounded; 05-22-2015, 01:51 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by HuntingRoss View Post
                With respect grounded, all this proves is single comm can't do all north.

                Happy Hunting

                mark
                Hi Mark


                Yes Mark you are right. It's just the nature of you motor... You know that you have an excellent platform for testing designs and it's easy to work with! Have pride with your work. You doing a great job!

                Keep it Clean and Green
                Midaz

                Grounded
                Last edited by Midaztouch; 05-22-2015, 12:02 PM.

                Comment


                • mark, that petrol scooter sites pretty good. ive seen a few of those same motors on ebay, and was interested in one for a pedal bike trial.
                  theres a much bigger choice on that site tho, and the prices are a bit better.

                  shopping there, i guess your based in england too ?

                  Comment


                  • I have a major important question that everyone seems to be quite about or just ignoring.

                    If a North facing field coil(on attract mode) and a South facing coil(on repel mode), are sharing the same armature pole...
                    Do they cancel eachother OUT leaving the armature pole/leg neutral or working together?

                    I need clarification on this point.


                    Keep it Clean and Green
                    Midaz
                    Last edited by Midaztouch; 05-24-2015, 12:29 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
                      If a North facing field coil(on attract mode) and a South facing coil(on repel mode), are sharing the same armature pole...
                      Do they cancel eachother OUT leaving the armature pole/leg neutral or working together?
                      I'm not certain that I'm understanding the question fully. But as it is presented, I would say the stronger field would be diminished by the value of the weaker.

                      However it seems to be a design flaw to have the north field attracting on the south magnet with the south field repelling on the south magnet at the same time. With both coils on the same pole.

                      Hunting

                      mark


                      Edit: Remark in RED added. Otherwise my comment made perfect design sense.
                      Last edited by HuntingRoss; 05-25-2015, 05:26 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by HuntingRoss View Post
                        I'm not certain that I'm understanding the question fully. But as it is presented, I would say the stronger field would be diminished by the value of the weaker.

                        However it seems to be a design flaw to have the north field attracting on the south magnet with the south field repelling on the south magnet at the same time.

                        Hunting

                        mark
                        I'm not sure if it's true or not... But, Your impression/statement is what I thought. So, we have the "Giant Pink Elephant" sitting in the middle of the room and it effects the torque of these motors directly Underload.

                        More people need to address/talk about this topic.... I don't want to assume/estimate incorrectly. What is the truth!?


                        Keep it Clean and Green
                        Midaz
                        Last edited by Midaztouch; 05-25-2015, 01:01 AM.

                        Comment


                        • My final conclusion for Sampojo's 10pole & 4 Magnet motor


                          8 out of 10 armature legs at full torque driving the motor, sounds great to me! IMO


                          Some of you my be surprised by my conclusion but, here's my thoughts...
                          [VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqw4gp3DlNc[/VIDEO]


                          Sampojo, you know what's best for you. Good luck with your motor!


                          Keep it Clean and Green
                          Midaz

                          Dadhav, feel free to comment.
                          Last edited by Midaztouch; 05-25-2015, 11:11 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
                            So, we have the "Giant Pink Elephant" sitting in the middle of the room and it effects the torque of these motors directly Underload.

                            More people need to address/talk about this topic.... I don't want to assume/estimate incorrectly. What is the truth!?
                            When you say "these motors" what design / schematic are you looking at ?

                            I'm having a problem imagining the scenario.

                            Happy Hunting

                            mark

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by HuntingRoss View Post
                              When you say "these motors" what design / schematic are you looking at ?

                              I'm having a problem imagining the scenario.

                              Happy Hunting

                              mark
                              Take a look at posts #6, 53, 54 & 55....
                              The north magnetic field and the south magnetic field are sharing the same armature poles/legs when motoring.
                              That weakens the magnetic fields strength/torque some how. How can two opposing fields share an armature(s) without a conflict? That's one of the reasons why I have been very critical about most of the past designs and CADs.

                              That what I want to avoid or minimize with the Singular Coils = A1MoGen


                              Keep it Clean and Green
                              Midaz

                              Mark, when your ready, post the CAD & info for you latest build.
                              Last edited by Midaztouch; 05-25-2015, 01:05 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
                                Take a look at posts #6, 53, 54 & 55....
                                The north magnetic field and the south magnetic field are sharing the same armature poles/legs when motoring.
                                That weakens the magnetic fields strength/torque some how. How can two opposing fields share an armature(s) without a conflict? That's one of the reasons why I have been very critical about most of the past designs and CADs.
                                I don't think I'm seeing what you're seeing.

                                The schematics are for all north coils which are projecting towards the magnets and the corresponding south fields are projecting towards the shaft. Unless that is the point you're making.

                                UFO makes this point :

                                Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                                Dual Commutator Machines generates a "One Way Flow" within rotating fields...this has long, very long implications that range from flux flows to electrical fields flow...besides no constant colliding of electrons/flux...
                                Of course I have no way of testing this because of my

                                Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                                constant personal failures on dual commutator machines...
                                Single comm bench results are very close to complete. I will then get my test pilot suited up and see how it works out prior to posting any figures.

                                Happy Hunting

                                mark

                                Comment

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