Charging battery from mains is series with a capacitor

[nilrehob]

Experimenting with gotoluc's latest findings with a MOT I tried charging a battery from mains in series with a capacitor but no MOT and thus keeping pf=0. I don't trust what I found so I invite all to shoot it down.

If You're in a hurry go straight for the last video:

Luc Reactive MOT Secondary Load: Luc Reactive MOT Secondary Load - YouTube
Luc Reactive MOT Primary Load: Luc Reactive MOT Primary Load - YouTube
Watt-Meter Resistive Load: Watt-Meter Resistive Load - YouTube
Watt-Meter Inductive Load: Watt-Meter Inductive Load - YouTube
Luc Reactive MOT to Battery, no Capacitor: Luc Reactive MOT to Battery, no Capacitor - YouTube
Watt-Meter Capacitative Load: Watt-Meter Capacitative Load - YouTube
Luc Reactive Capacitor to Battery, no MOT: Luc Reactive Capacitor to Battery, no MOT - YouTube

I later found the manual for the watt-meter, and It says that it only takes measurements in quadrants 1 and 4 (consumed energy). So if its in 2 or 3 (or very close to them I guess), it writes "err" in the "current page" and all power-related info says zero.

/Hob

[ewizard]

It appears you are seeing at least over a half amp on input if I'm seeing your wiring correctly so depending on your input voltage (120 or 220 ?) you are consuming roughly 60+ watts or 110+ watts. I'm not sure what you mean by saying you don't trust what you found. I don't see anything extraordinary but I did only watch the last video. Can you clarify what you think you have found? You are probably familiar with George Wisemans Capacitive charger? That's essentially what you are doing there I believe. His uses a full wave bridge rectifier. It's an interesting way to charge big batteries although somewhat dangerous.

BTW thanks for carrying on with Patrick Kelly's Energy ebook.

[nilrehob]

It appears you are seeing at least over a half amp on input if I'm seeing your wiring correctly so depending on your input voltage (120 or 220 ?) you are consuming roughly 60+ watts or 110+ watts. I'm not sure what you mean by saying you don't trust what you found. I don't see anything extraordinary but I did only watch the last video. Can you clarify what you think you have found? You are probably familiar with George Wisemans Capacitive charger? That's essentially what you are doing there I believe. His uses a full wave bridge rectifier. It's an interesting way to charge big batteries although somewhat dangerous.

BTW thanks for carrying on with Patrick Kelly's Energy ebook.

I'm on 230 V, the cap is probably simply a current limiter, although the pf=0 makes it interesting.

I didn't know about George, I'll look it up, but maybe You have a link?

BTW as far as I know I'm not involved in Patrick's book.

/Hob

[nilrehob]

Yes, found it, definitely George Wisemans Capacitive charger

/Hob

[Matthew Jones]

That high voltage just strips the capacity of the battery off the plate if used to often. They may work in the short term but in the long term they will just start to fail in a worse way.

Double the voltage of the battery in a large capacitor and dump it. That promotes cleaning and growth in capacity at the same time.

Matt

[nilrehob]

That high voltage just strips the capacity of the battery off the plate if used to often. They may work in the short term but in the long term they will just start to fail in a worse way.

Double the voltage of the battery in a large capacitor and dump it. That promotes cleaning and growth in capacity at the same time.

Matt

Regardless of the good or bad long-term effect, I don't think the battery sees any HV, it only sees current softly pulsing.

/Hob

[Matthew Jones]

No actually the HV has an effect on the structure of the plate. At first it heats the sulfation that is detrimental then it slowly start to heat and chip the formation on the plate. Soon you have raw lead that does not regrow formations. The material on the negative plates that get deposited on the positive plate get burned as well. This is not true with transient energy though.

Lower voltage (2x battery voltage) do more to remove detrimental sulfation while at the same time they cause a tighter structure on the existing plate, and raise not only capacity but lower impedance. I have seen it first hand under microscope.

I spent a good amount of time and money looking at all this with a chemical engineer. I was looking for the best charging process and/or cleaning process for long term battery use. All of the info was used to develop a battery charger that was capable of restoring and improving most batteries. Its has to date increased the capacity of several batteries almost 90%.

Feel free to do what ever you want though, it not my money your spending.

Matt

[ewizard]

I'm on 230 V, the cap is probably simply a current limiter, although the pf=0 makes it interesting.

I didn't know about George, I'll look it up, but maybe You have a link?

BTW as far as I know I'm not involved in Patrick's book.

/Hob

Ugghh! I think I had you confused with Lamare? Probably your Swedish location and picture or just a bit of that dementia slipping in - LOL.

[nilrehob]

No actually the HV has an effect on the structure of the plate. At first it heats the sulfation that is detrimental then it slowly start to heat and chip the formation on the plate. Soon you have raw lead that does not regrow formations. The material on the negative plates that get deposited on the positive plate get burned as well. This is not true with transient energy though.

Lower voltage (2x battery voltage) do more to remove detrimental sulfation while at the same time they cause a tighter structure on the existing plate, and raise not only capacity but lower impedance. I have seen it first hand under microscope.

I spent a good amount of time and money looking at all this with a chemical engineer. I was looking for the best charging process and/or cleaning process for long term battery use. All of the info was used to develop a battery charger that was capable of restoring and improving most batteries. Its has to date increased the capacity of several batteries almost 90%.

Feel free to do what ever you want though, it not my money your spending.

Matt

It would be very interesting if You could share the details of Your findings and how You did the research.
I did a test yesterday and there was no HV on the battery, just current.
The pf=0, remember? Thats the key to this kind of charging.

Battery vs Resistor - YouTube

/Hob

[Matthew Jones]

I can't say I used a PF0 capacitor. They were 1 uf. So maybe the difference is in that.

Matt

[Duncan]

Hi Hob I posted on this before .. however take a read through this

Capacitive Battery Charger - John Saves Energy
There are long term current and responce times .. also notice at resonance huge battery packs can be charged very fast .. you'll see I've also just quoted this technology in the regarding the DC motor systems on another thread I just opened alas my drawings still I'm sure you'll see how this 'resonant' charging fits into what these African guys are doing (I think)
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post247355
.. regards Duncan

[nilrehob]

I can't say I used a PF0 capacitor. They were 1 uf. So maybe the difference is in that.

Matt

Besides from creating pf=0 the capacitor works as a current-limiter,
less capacitance means less current, and without affecting the pf,
if there is a capacitor (and no inductor) the pf is always 0.

/Hob

[nilrehob]

Hi Hob I posted on this before .. however take a read through this
john saves money battery charger
There are long term current and responce times .. also notice at resonance huge battery packs can be charged very fast .. you'll see I've also just quoted this technology in the regarding the DC motor systems in the other thread I just opened .. regards Duncan

Your link doesn't work

/Hob

[Duncan]

seems ok now

[Matthew Jones]

@Hob

What is the configuration of the capacitor your using? Is it Multiples? At what specs?

I guess I have been wrong about this thing the whole time. We dumped 120 v across the batteries to see what charging effect that cap dump would have.
I would guess the CAP specs don't matter that much?

Thanks
Matt