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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • marathonman
    replied
    Part G

    Cadman;

    Yes ! in the toroid part G but even more simple design like the last one i posted of a straight core under a motor brush assembly is simple rectangle wire wrapped around a laminated core. one end to set N and the other to set S while the brush rotates on that.

    the place that sells rectangle wire in the US at any quantities and sizes are S&W Wire and they have a crap load of inventory. If Figuera used thick rectangle wire then i think we should also.
    link to S&W Wire....Magnet Wire Manufacturer - Supplier | S&W Wire | Enameled Magnet Wire


    UFO.

    As seen in the patent, it shows a type of brush wheel in the rotator assembly. yes, we all know it is just a drawing, while this is true, way back in the day later 1800, someone designed a drum commutator that had Roller Brushes for just a spacific type of switching. while it was barely used at all, i am almost positive this is what Figuera himself used in his design.
    also, if one wanted to cut down on friction, the slip ring brush itself would be a Roller Brush and this my friend would indeed be thinking on the same lines as the master Figuera himself would of thought.
    and yes simple PWM circuit can control the speed of the motor all day long.

    i truly believed he used Roller Brushes in his setup even though regular brushes would of worked also. the less friction the better.

    PS. i love seeing our thread in that shout box, we will be getting more attention.


    MM
    Last edited by marathonman; 09-12-2016, 02:30 PM.

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  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Originally posted by marathonman View Post

    UFO;

    i like at the end how the frame rate limits of your video device were tested. very good video, reminds me of http://web.archive.org/web/200605251.../scalarbm3.gif

    very good work my young padewan, you will make an excellent Figuera Jedi master.


    MM
    Thanks MM,

    Yeah, that little Sony HDR-CX100 Camcorder is pretty good...however, its Auto-Shutter speed can put up with higher pulsations of light...I have filmed many, many neon's, CFL's and LED's flashing under pulsed Radiant Energy...to the point you could see the darker stripe sliding slowly through screen...

    On this video it fails to render with accuracy the proper flashing speed of both LED's at higher RPM's.

    but hey, it does the job of capturing the scene.

    We are all "Jedi's working for the Supreme Light..."





    never for the Darkness...


    Regards


    Ufopolitics

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  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
    Nice video Ufo!!!
    Thanks Hanon...

    Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
    As expected with such big resistor value you just get a good voltage in the point when no resistor is acting, the next contact have one piece resistor, 47 ohms and the intensity decreases sharply. Thus why I think a good value for 12 volts is around 1-2 ohms in each piece.
    I do not understand your quoted statement above...

    Ok, you are saying with 47 ohms @ 12V the intensity decreases sharply...and so, you are suggesting a lower resistance of about 1-2 ohms @12V?

    So, we should be looking to make intensity decreasing smoother/slower right?

    I thought that by decreasing the resistance that much -like you suggest above (1-2 ohms)-, the (light) intensity may not even drop off at all to the point of non being even noticeable Hanon?

    What I believe it is completely dependable upon the resistance of the load we are adding...in this case we are looking for the proper resistance and impedance of the primary coils versus the resistance we would be using...a balance through ohms law with the applied voltage utilized.

    Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
    I see that at high rpm the contacts are not perfect and the scope seems to show spikes , I think
    Contacts are perfect, I have tested them rotating by hand, element by element, what you are seeing is just the reaction from the electronic circuits at each LED, which are not designed to be flickering like that because of high pulsed currents.

    Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
    A better design is the one posted previously by MM for the rotary switch with resistors where the contacts are implemented into a comercial motor commutator and it probably has less spikes. Another design to avoid sparks is the one drawn in the image below with 7 outputs one for each resistor piece:



    All I am using are "commercial motor commutators" friend, I have them in "ALL Colors" and sizes as number of elements, from 56 all the way to three elements.

    I believe "a better design" should be that one...where motor don't need to be a one horse power (1HP) machine to perform this simple switching electrical contacts job... so, adding too many brushes and slip rings completely kills this purpose.

    That little motor I am using could reach 3600 at 2.5 volts and 0.85 Amps easily and very cool...I certainly think we do not need to spend any more than that for this simple electrical contacts rotation.

    I do not know if you have noticed ...that all my brushes are Carbon Roller Brushes that I've designed and built, just to avoid friction while offering excellent contact during operation. I have also build them in brass and copper...very useful.

    While the typical brush-spring casing type from "commercial motors" do NOT work for high speed Rotations, since at higher speeds they retract by centrifugal forces and stop making contact, then adding stronger springs calls the drag galore...mines have a counterweight to use centrifugal forces in advantage to stick more to comm at high speeds...

    Did you observe any "spikes" or "sparks" in my commutator or my slip ring?

    One thing that I love about this simple One Brush approach from Figuera's is that we do not need to use two (neg-pos) brushes at the same commutator (then you WILL DO see what sparks really are...) and still be able to displace the virtual magnetic fields in both polarization's (N or S) -without reversing voltage polarities at comm. - and that is a very advantageous design, which could be applied to many, many other purposes...

    Now, Hanon, have you built any Power Rotary Switches similar to mine to test the Figuera's Device?

    It is great to build one...it becomes a very useful Tool to test Figuera's Concept in the simplest form first.


    Regards


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-12-2016, 01:40 PM.

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  • Cadman
    replied
    Originally posted by marathonman View Post
    Wistiti;

    Part G is one continuous wind on a core. the only three connections are Set N, Set S and the positive rotating brush so you would be correct in your assumption.
    MM
    Continuous, meaning the end of the winding is connected to the beginning?

    Just curious as this is where I'm working right now and I can see there are options.

    Regards,
    CM

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  • marathonman
    replied
    Part G

    Wistiti;

    Part G is one continuous wind on a core. the only three connections are Set N, Set S and the positive rotating brush so you would be correct in your assumption.

    Hanon;

    I am trying to make it as easy as possible for everyone. the toroid, straight core or Ei, will work as i so found out. as long as the core is larger then what is being fed it will work. the simple straight core with motor will work great as long as frequency, time varying change is taking place no matter what shape or form. that is why i posted the resent pic of straight core and motor. this is exactly why Figuera said any variation will do as all different cores will react in a AC imparted overtone giving the device an exact unison currant variation.

    Elcheapo;

    funny thing is the Lorentz force as attributed to him was in Maxwell's equations when Lorentz was just 8 years old. imagine that !
    also, don't forget self inductance, it will bite you in the back side.

    UFO;

    i like at the end how the frame rate limits of your video device were tested. very good video, reminds me of http://web.archive.org/web/200605251.../scalarbm3.gif

    very good work my young padewan, you will make an excellent Figuera Jedi master.



    MM
    Last edited by marathonman; 09-12-2016, 04:57 AM.

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  • Elcheapo
    replied
    hanon1492:

    Elcheapo,

    The rule you are using is for transformers, with flux linking induction as per Faraday equation E = N•A•dB/dt, but our dear Figuera generator is based on flux cutting induction as per Lorentz force E=v•B•Length•N, but in this equation just compute the number of turns that are cut in each instant while moving the colliding plane of both fields back and corth. That why I think it is preferable to have many turns cut in each instant therefore IMO it is better to have more layers in the induced coil than a long coil with few layers: more layers more turns over the moving plane between both fields. But this is just my guess, I can not assure if that is fine or not.

    Thanks very much for this info. I feel so much better now!
    Things are starting to make more sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wistiti
    replied
    Nice video UFO!
    Am happy to see we are many builders on it!


    MM i have a question about the g part. Like i see it in the pjkbook the toroid have 2 winding on it: each 180° apart connect together.

    My question is can i use only one winding 360°?

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  • hanon1492
    replied
    Nice video Ufo!!!

    As expected with such big resistor value you just get a good voltage in the point when no resistor is acting, the next contact have one piece resistor, 47 ohms and the intensity decreases sharply. Thus why I think a good value for 12 volts is around 1-2 ohms in each piece.

    I see that at high rpm the contacts are not perfect and the scope seems to show spikes , I think

    A better design is the one posted previously by MM for the rotary switch with resistors where the contacts are implemented into a comercial motor commutator and it probably has less spikes. Another design to avoid sparks is the one drawn in the image below with 7 outputs one for each resistor piece:



    Last edited by hanon1492; 09-11-2016, 10:38 PM.

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  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Taking it for a "Drive"...

    Hello Guys,


    Figuera's Rotary Switch Test 1


    [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UvHKfst38U&feature=youtu.be[/VIDEO]


    Above is the video like I have promised before, same arrangement as I stated, 47 ohms resistors, around 12V Lipo Battery feeding it...and so on

    It was a very quick video...just to see resistors are doing their job..let me know what you think?


    Regards


    Ufopolitics

    Leave a comment:


  • hanon1492
    replied
    Originally posted by Elcheapo View Post
    MM

    Something in your demo that doesn't jive.

    You say primary coil has 300 turns and secondary has 90 turns.
    That's a turns ratio of 90/300 =.3

    Since turns ratios and voltage ratios are always the same and primary
    voltage is 50, then output would only be .3*50= 15 volts.
    Elcheapo,

    The rule you are using is for transformers, with flux linking induction as per Faraday equation E = N•A•dB/dt, but our dear Figuera generator is based on flux cutting induction as per Lorentz force E=v•B•Length•N, but in this equation just compute the number of turns that are cut in each instant while moving the colliding plane of both fields back and corth. That why I think it is preferable to have many turns cut in each instant therefore IMO it is better to have more layers in the induced coil than a long coil with few layers: more layers more turns over the moving plane between both fields. But this is just my guess, I can not assure if that is fine or not.

    Ufo,
    I tested a variac to mimic MM design of part G. It was not a rheostat as Bista der said. What I noted when tested the variac with DC was that it has a very complex behaviour. It seems to be a balance of different magnetic fields fighting inside the toroid. For example when I stopped the rotation after a few tenths of seconds the dimming changed as a response to the movement. I could dim each bulb completely with just around a third of a whole turn while moving the brush. I can not explain why but I saw a complex dynamic system. I think bistander is right about the variac response.

    MM,
    You are right. Big generators need avoiding big resistors and it is better a toroidal part G withou losses. But you are one step ahead. The rest of us would be very happy just with a proof of concept first. I have noted that you moved from a toroidal core design to a straight core. Is there a reason for that? I think the magnetic field in a straight core will be much lower than in a toroid, and then I suppose that the energy stored will be smaller, but I am not sure. I post below your design included in PJK ebook some months ago.

    Last edited by hanon1492; 09-11-2016, 09:18 PM.

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  • Mario
    replied
    No worries

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  • marathonman
    replied
    Sorry about that.

    MM

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  • Mario
    replied
    Originally posted by marathonman View Post
    UFO;

    Mario;

    looks like 240 winds i think, sorry note book is trashed.


    MM
    MM, you seem to often confuse me with other people, I think elcheapo asked about this.

    Mario

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  • bistander
    replied
    Variac

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    Hello Hanon,

    I like the simplicity of that video...it shows the effect pretty clear.

    However I have noticed when the rear bulb is dimming out... all the sudden the front bulb lights up way too much...which is not supposed to happen...I believe is when rheostat reaches the end points it "jumps" to max values. ...
    Ufo,

    It is not a rheostat, it is a variac, which is a variable transformer. The dial wipes on the turns wound on a magnetic toroidal core. As a transformer it is intended to be used on AC where it will provide a variable output voltage with a fixed AC voltage input.

    The winding in the variac has very low resistance so on a low current circuit like with the two bulbs and a DC source has no effect in the steady state. However when the wiper is moving there is a changing current in the variac winding causing a voltage drop proportional to the inductance which causes one bulb or the other to dim, but only while the wiper moves. Once stopped, within a very short time (a few time constants) the variac has no affect on the DC circuit.

    bi

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  • marathonman
    replied
    Commutator part G

    UFO;

    Actually i am not using Nichrome wire on my final build, that is thick rectangle wire.
    the Nichrome was used in my demo build with the cores i shared with Mario.
    i didn't take a real photo but the paint pic below in the exact layout i used with Nichrome wire and demo cores.
    16 segments were used.

    Elcheapo;

    looks like 240 winds i think, sorry note book is trashed.

    for all you people looking for wire in the United States. the cheapest wire around is EIS WIRE. link....EIS - Electrical, Electronic, Wire & Cable, Industrial Assembly
    they are but a few miles from my house so i don't pay shipping. yeh !

    i have a question, if the Figuera puts out 15 kilowatts of power and powers it self then what would the COP be..........15,000 or what ???

    MM
    Attached Files
    Last edited by marathonman; 09-11-2016, 07:02 PM.

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