Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[citfta]

MadMack and UFO

Hi marathonman,

MadMack came to this forum about a year ago if I recall correctly. He claimed he had a working magnet motor. And he was going to show us how to make one. As he began to give out information UFO jumped onto the thread and started posting his CAD drawings over and over. And several times MadMack had to correct what UFO posted. After a month or so several of us got close to a working motor but never actually got one to work that I know of. Some of us did pick up some ideas that we were able to use on another project and those ideas worked very well. I am not at liberty to discuss that at this time. But the thread finally just faded away as MadMack said he had to have surgery and then would be back. But he never came back.

You are probably wondering why bistander and myself want to correct UFO when he posts bad information. It is because he has been doing that for too long on this forum. I recently posed a question on my thread entitled "Open discussion for projects on this forum". I asked for an opinion from the readers. Did they want someone with years of experience in electronics to correct the mistaken information posted or should we just let it go. Several people posted they appreciated very much someone taking the time to correct misinformation. The only person that objected to that idea was UFO. You can read the thread for yourself and see that.

If you go to UFO,s thread about his Assy Motor build and read the last page or so of posts you can clearly see the result of his misinformation. Someone trying to build his motor got so confused he didn't know what to think. Bistander took the time to help him get to the solution of his problem.

I understand about you not wanting to get your thread all cluttered up with this kind of stuff, but do you really want people to get confused and misled by erroneous postings? I started the Open Discussion thread so these kinds of things could be discussed there. But if a newcomer only looks at your thread how will they know when misinformation is being posted?

This is your thread and I respect that. So I am asking if you want me to just bow out and not make corrections when I see they are needed? Or would you like me to just post a short post saying to look at the Open Discussion thread for a corrected post about whatever is wrong?

By the way, I don't understand all the confusion about the G part. The drawings clearly show symbols for coils.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[marathonman]

I Agree

Yes i do agree with your entirety. if someone is incorrect, correct the with dignity not shame and slander. calling one ignorant about a subject is not derogatory, all it means is not knowing.
i for one do not get mad at this subject, just mad when people refuse to know the truth and remain ignorant because it is the easy road.

"By the way, I don't understand all the confusion about the G part. The drawings clearly show symbols for coils."

Thank you very much, that was the actual patent drawing, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. some people seam to be solely stuck on one single word "resistance" and that is all they see. others can see the whole box, not just one single face in front of them.

"This is your thread and I respect that."
thank you but it not my thread, it's our thread. i'm just a major contributor.


good then, there are three of us that knows what part G is. spread the word.


John G;

not trying to sound disrespectful at all but the Figuera device has nothing to do with atmospheric electricity. that was an ignorant reporter and ignorant Buforn. the figuera device operates in the magnetic realm allowing it to work in the dead of space.

good book to read though.

MM

[Cadman]

Cadman;
"6 coil sets and 120 vac rectified to 172.8 DC, so about 28 volts per set."

why are you dividing 6 into 172.8 ??
are you wiring coils in series or parallel ?

for your test rig it's 3400 % overkill, Duh ! for your final it's 530 % at 172.8 @ 4 a. ??? hope it works.

i have a variac i will be using as my 100 volt supply but it can only do 5 or so amps so i am thinking of building one myself.

can you gather the equations together you used and send them to me. i would like to see how mine fared.???

I guess I need to fill in some blanks so I'll start at the beginning. The rough calculations I did were for a generator using the old formulas and methods from the Elementary Dynamo book. My imaginary gen has 6 field coils in series and a theoretical output of 120 V and 60 A. I want to use that as a base line for comparison. Amp turns, iron cross section, and so forth. That's where the 172.8 rectified and 28 volts comes from.

The part G that I wound is only an AC autotransformer at this point and I doubt that formula for AC converts directly to varying DC because the 4.44 constant is for AC quadrature.

So this is all just a starting point and I am using whatever material is already at hand to keep the cost down. I have no doubt the build will go through many iterations along the way.

Is it the autotransformer equations you want?

Regards,
CM

[marathonman]

Part g

YES ! or at least the pdf/book you got it from.

but then again, we are dealing with something (part G) that has never been published in a book that i know of. the math prowess involved in calculating the currant/voltage drop in a linear fashion as the brush moves is more the likely beyond the capabilities of everyone on this web site.
i have put up fliers at local colleges with my phone number a few days ago in hopes to find a math wiz that can help with the calculations. i will post all this information when it happens and will be formatted as a definitive guide to the construction of part G.

i am very close right now but the amount of coils involved will be trial and error. the 500 va over stands correct for the core as does the closed core.
a definitive guide will aid future builders in their quest.

"I doubt that formula for AC converts directly to varying DC because the 4.44 constant is for AC quadrature."

i agree also as i think the Figuera device is 1/4 quadrature.

about your figures, you said they were 6 in series, that is 20 volts 60 amps per core x 6 = 120 volt @ 60 amp. am i reading this correctly.??


MM

[Cadman]

autotransformer

Here's my autotransformer spreadsheet and the book it's based on.

The spreadsheet has everything except the allowance for the iron & resistance losses in watts. The iron loss is calculated but isn't applied.

CM

PS. The 120V 60A was the total output of the old imaginary dynamo armature. Exciting voltage for those field coils was 20V each.

I would LOVE to have a Figuera gen that put out that much!

[Hrothgar]

Late to the party, hi folks

I do believe, There are plenty of resistors in the device as the coils are used as resistors. but only in the sense that the primary coil gets choked off as it builds the field. The reactive field can collapse but the primary still chokes by pushing back at itself. So supposedly little power from the generator is dissipated.

So an example would be a bar as a core with a primary turned against itself half way through the winding and a secondary done the same but have one of them at the center and the other coil at the ends of the bar. an efficient core might actually be counterproductive

[hanon1492]

Here's my autotransformer spreadsheet and the book it's based on.

The spreadsheet has everything except the allowance for the iron & resistance losses in watts. The iron loss is calculated but isn't applied.

CM

PS. The 120V 60A was the total output of the old imaginary dynamo armature. Exciting voltage for those field coils was 20V each.

I would LOVE to have a Figuera gen that put out that much!

Thanks Cadman for sharing your work.

Here I add a link to that same book for those who want to read it online: https://archive.org/details/AutoTransformerDesignAvery

I think that electromagnets in common generators for the same applied voltage have a greater strength than in our case. In common generators, poles in attraction, their electromagnets have almost a closed magnetic path (except for the gap between poles faces) and therefore their magnetic force is greater than in our case, poles in repulsion, with greater gap to close the magnetic circuit and return to a contrary pole.

[marathonman]

I do believe, There are plenty of resistors in the device as the coils are used as resistors. but only in the sense that the primary coil gets choked off as it builds the field. The reactive field can collapse but the primary still chokes by pushing back at itself. So supposedly little power from the generator is dissipated.

So an example would be a bar as a core with a primary turned against itself half way through the winding and a secondary done the same but have one of them at the center and the other coil at the ends of the bar. an efficient core might actually be counterproductive

Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense except coils are resistors, past that reality is lost. the reactive field does not ever collapse as that field is linear in fashion but you are correct as little power is dissipated through heat, wire and core loss amount to as little as two to five percent.

Why did you add the link to the book when Cadman already had the book in his post, how stupid is that. it is a trick used by scam artist to give them credibility. in the future please don't undermine ones post. it looks really bad on your part as desperate as trying to connect your work with his. just saying.



MM

[hanon1492]

Why did you add the link to the book when Cadman already had the book in his post, how stupid is that. it is a trick used by scam artist to give them credibility. in the future please don't undermine ones post. it looks really bad on your part as desperate as trying to connect your work with his. just saying.

MM

Possibly because attachments are just available to forum members, while links are open to everyone in the net. Please forgive me for sharing that info openly

About your insults to me of stupid and scam artist I won't say anything, but I take note. You are free from thinking whatever comes to your mind. Those insults defines more how you are than to myself.

Regards

[Hrothgar]

I did not post a link that I know of?!

2halves one on each end makes sense I just see it as one coil since I see it with no break in the wire. You might have seen it as one bobbin even tho the second half of the example clearly implied it could not be one coil as it had to be in two places at once. For ease of visualization,. 4 bobbins 2 for the primary 2 for the secondary. Secondaries arranged so they oppose each other if energized. Primaries cap secondaries on both ends also opposing each other if energized. The primary should push on the secondary til it's reactive Pressure/state collapses into the load. After that the primary should raise its own resistance by opposing itself as a resistor, shutting itself off until the end of the cycle.

[marathonman]

Figuera Device

Hrothgar;
Are you actually describing the Figuera device or another device because your description is not even close to what the patent implies.

Figueras device is two independent magnetic fields occupying the same relative space in space outside there their core. the secondary is then placed in this space that according to William Hooper and others data and research that a duel or double strength E field is formed.

and referring to part G, it is a dynamic magnetic resistor that changes currant flow to both sets of primaries as the brush rotates making contact on the winding's which add or subtract winding's and core material as it rotates.

Cadman;

"I would LOVE to have a Figuera gen that put out that much!"

That is only 7200 watts, making it 15 or 20 kilowatts is just as easy. then you will be off the grid.


MM

[Hrothgar]

Oops

I thought u were talking about his solid state transformer. However the 2primaries in my example change resistance in a dynamic fashion.

[hanon1492]

Well i went to storage today. you know all that Texas rain we been having, well half of it is in my storage rental. one blob of wet cardboard.

but lucky for you Mario i have my soaking wet note book. ink is f-ed up but here it goes.

primaries and secondaries are 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 3".

Primary winding are 18 awg wire @ 300 turn ruffly. what i had on hand.

secondaries are 14 aug @ 90 turns i think, ink bad. what i had on hand.

input was 50 volts @ 2 amp.

output was 40 volts per core series to 80 volts @ 3.75 amp.

wire used for resistance was Nichrome wire either 60 or 80, but can't make out the rest.

it is easy to calculate with Ohm calculator like here.
http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/

very good tool to have on computer.


MM

In the 10th of september you posted the design parameter of your 100W input / 300W output (see quoted post above) answering to the questions of some users.

But according to some data on overunity dot com forum some months ago you design was the next that I quote below:

"the primaries have to be no less than equal to your secondary and/or larger. my primaries were changed to 4 inches long with the secondary 2 inches long and am getting great results. because if it was the other way around the magnetic field of the primaries would not extend past the secondary as Figuera intended.

wind your secondary 1/4 inch from the edge of the secondary core and the same with the primaries, this will have a 1/2 inch total gap between them. please secure your device so parts don't fly and cut off important body parts. then pulse them according to Figuera's timing specs.

the device will work with just one but not very good. for some reason it showed up better when i used two sets

I have powered three 100 watt lights with 100 volt 1 amp with two section unit with no diminish

First off my primaries are larger than my secondaries.
primaries are wound with 22 awg 600 plus turns (6 layers) 3.2 inches long
secondaries are 10 awg, layers are up to you, i have three at 2 inches long= 19 turns per layer. final unit will be wound with 10 awg Square.

resistance does not matter as it is up to your resistor network that dictates that. what ever voltage you want to use just remember the currant is controlled by your resistor network that is why i chose 22 awg instead of 26 awg.

yes for now i am using a commutator at 60 cps

i have never posted the commutator i am using, it was my own design, works good to and is easy to build using only a shaft, three commutators and a small motor. oh and wire wound resistors encased in resin.

Figuera used 100 volts then so did i. if you are not comfortable use variac to get the voltage you are comfortable with.

I calculate my primaries at 8.7 ohm give or take not 12, that puts me at 70 ohm for the set. the resistors control the currant not the wires so it will be ok."

Could you please clarify which was your real device to get 300W output, the device that you said that have been sold?

I see both sets of data have different core sizes, different wire diameter, but for some reason both have the same input (100 W) and output (300 W)

If you so kind to clarify those two set of designs. Thanks

[marathonman]

Hrothgar;
it was my confusion, sorry.

hanon;
I have already clarified that in the pm to you yesterday. i tried multiple arrangements and yes those are some of them and yes they both put out 300 watts. so what is so difficult about that.
if i am correct, it was last year wasn't it, before i found out what part G really was, not resistors.
and yes that is correct i did sell the unit on OU to purchase the pure iron core i have now that one can see in my picture album on this web site.


MM

[marathonman]

Image posting

when posting an image on this web sit it will burn up your very little space they give you. as i know it has been discussed before, i just wanted people to know that post image dot org has a windows app that allows you to post pics from your desktop and gives you the direct url to that image to be imbedded in your post through insert image button. it says screen capture tool but does the before mentioned also.
just right click postimage, at top of menu is post image, click that then chose pic or pics to upload, click copy link then insert image button here then that's it.

the link here https://postimg.org
it works great.

MM