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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
    Seead, Your simulation are not good to see OU effects. You can not expect to get OU results using computer programs which have implemented (compiled) the equations for conservation of energy
    I know that but other ideas can be emerged as to achieve sinus from coils on a toroid e.g.
    And you don/t burn your fingers on the soldering iron.
    Last edited by seaad; 10-14-2016, 01:39 PM.

    Comment


    • Simulation = bad

      -->MM

      ""Seead, Your simulation are not good to see OU effects. You can not expect to get OU results using computer programs ""

      And the sim. gave us a clear picture of that Inductances are better than Resistors for the G-part even if we did know that before somehow.

      Thanks MM!

      Comment


      • Señal=Signal

        Originally posted by seaad View Post
        UFO Sorry I don't understand what you call "SIGNAL" among things here? English is not my native language pls explain in another way.
        Hanon,

        Signal es la "Señal, refiriéndome a la emisión de una frequencia en tiempo contra voltaje ó contra cualquier otro parámetro que pudiese ser resistencia, intensidad, reactancia etc.

        Saludos


        Ufopolitics
        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
          Just time to upload this image...


          [IMG][/IMG]

          Later


          Ufopolitics

          I am quoting myself to explain this Diagram above,

          Figuera machine does two sweeps over the resistors every 360º cycle.

          First sweep takes place from 1 to 8, which have direct connections to resistor box "R" red dots:

          >>1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8>>180º

          The second sweep takes place from 9 to 16, going exactly over the same contacts as the first sweep.

          >>9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16>>180º

          All in the same direction "R":

          R>->->->->->->R

          Independent commutators segments one (1) and sixteen (16) are bridged (jumped) and directly fully feed part N of primaries to Max values. Figuera does this to set a bit longer time on this contact duration to two segments.

          He does the same exact thing at commutator segments eight (8) and nine (9) which are also bridged (jumped) as 1 & 16 but here Figuera is feeding full positive value to part S of primaries.

          Where one (1) and nine (9)...As eight (8) and sixteen (16) are pairs which are exactly linearly set at 180º apart.

          This Two commutator jumped segments are exactly at 180º apart, and I have represented them at cylinder with blue and green areas, and this two double segments constitutes the two main outputs to primaries N-S in the Toroidal Part G.

          Hope this is understood better now


          Regards to all


          Ufopolitics
          Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

          Comment


          • Part G

            MM,
            I have a 5.2 x 2.3 inch toroid from another project and was thinking to build Part G with it. Not sure the specs of it. Will get the square or round magnet wire, which is better? Not trying to slow this thread or be a pain. Will refer to previous post as needed.

            Thanks for sharing,
            wantomake

            Comment


            • Following the patent guidelines the commutator sweeps all contacts in ascending order (1 to 16). But as 9 is jumped with 8, 10 jumped with 7, 11 jumped with 6, 12 jumped with 5, 13 jumped with 4, 14 jumped with 3, 15 jumped with 2, and 16 jumped with 1, as the drawing shows ( Ufo, please see all rhese jumped in the drawing, not just the two jumped pairs you mentioned )then the resistance is sweep during half cycle
              in this direction R1------> and the second half cycle in the way back <---------R2 to complete a whole turn of the brush. In half turn the brush(contact) is approaching the side tap of one set of electromagnets and later in the other direction it is approaching the side tap of the other set of electromagnets.

              R1------------------------------------------------------------>
              1___ 2____3____4____5____6____7____8
              16__15 __14___13___12__11___10___9
              <-------------------------------------------------------------R2




              Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
              All in the same direction "R":

              R>->->->->->->R
              Ufo, I do not know how you get to that interpretation of the patent. Please read again the patent and you will see that this is the sequence proposed. This sequence gives the two 180° unphased signals described in the patent


              Image done by Kekho77
              Last edited by hanon1492; 10-14-2016, 06:36 PM.

              Comment


              • TWO of their contacts etc.

                Some questions HELP please! :

                Quote from patent 44267:
                ""The operation of the machine is as follows: it has been said that the brush “O” rotates around the cylinder “G” and always in contact with two of their contacts.""

                --> BRUSH singularis = one brush

                --> ALWAYS w. TWO contacts, How? Always = constantly?
                . . . Connected to what and that? Is it the jumper between connectors 2 -15 etc.?

                --> it has been said, Some beginning of a hearsay, / fairy tail?



                Quote from patent 44267:

                Suppose that electromagnets are represented by rectangles N and S. Between their poles is located the induced circuit represented by the line y (small).

                --> LINE ?? What?

                --> SMALL ?? Small y coil(s) as in my first presented experiment from February? . . . . See my post above

                And finally: Why so many sets of S,N,y? A must to get OU?

                Arne

                Comment


                • Pressure

                  Originally posted by marathonman
                  ...

                  finally, Figuera chose smaller core because of the potential pressure between the primaries. if it was one large core the pressure between then is quite large as in 222 lbs pressure for 15 kilowatt. this my friend is a lot of pressure and has the potential to KILL YOU DEAD. so Figuera broke it down to be safer and easier to handle.

                  example; suppose i chose 8 core sets, take 222 divided by 8 = 27.75 lbs pressure between the primaries. this is way easier to secure then the 222 lbs pressure would be. each primary is accountable for half that pressure so 27.75 lbs divided by two is 13.875 lbs pressure for each primary.

                  it takes 14.8 lbs pressure for every kilowatt of power so everyone needs to be VERY CAREFUL when building this device.
                  Hi MM,

                  Please explain pressure. Pressure on what? What causes the pressure? What is the relationship of pressure to power (kW)?

                  Thanks,

                  bi

                  Comment


                  • -->MM and All
                    MM Thank you for your ansvers. You always seem to be so unshakable and confident in your answers.

                    Now a story;
                    "Two younger Scouts was to learn about to cook porridge and they asked their master/senior Scout how much of water and rolled oats they should take. The senior Scout didn't have a clue of how to cook porridge but as their master he must give a straight answer. - Take halv of each! he said quickly...."
                    Anybody who knows how to make porridge?

                    Comments:

                    But the patent says: ""always in contact with more than one contact, rotates a brush..."" I have seen that make before breake before and that is good itself but I'm still not completely convinced (my gut feeling). ALWAYS with more than...

                    ""Small line Y is messed up wording for secondary."" Are our Spanish and English talking friends here happy with that? Line = row of something? Perpendicular?

                    MM you are talking about pressure, heavy pressure that can ""KILL YOU DEAD!""
                    But but many talks wery much of NN or SS here, "" meaning NORTH Y NORTH"". Isn't that the opposite? Tear apart. I've probably misunderstood that.

                    ""Take patent and translate to native language for better understanding.""
                    If I were to do that with help from the Web, it would just become gibberish!

                    MM
                    Arne

                    Comment


                    • 14.8

                      Originally posted by marathonman
                      yes for every kilowatt produced 14.8 lbs pressure is needed to produce it. why do you think generators bog down, because of extreme attraction forces, many, many lbs force. in the Figuera device it is opposite, repelling forces.

                      MM
                      HI MM,

                      Thanks for the reply. I was looking for the root source of the 14.8 lbs/kW. Where did you get that figure or how did you calculate/measure it?

                      References would help.

                      Thanks,

                      bi

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
                        Following the patent guidelines the commutator sweeps all contacts in ascending order (1 to 16). But as 9 is jumped with 8, 10 jumped with 7, 11 jumped with 6, 12 jumped with 5, 13 jumped with 4, 14 jumped with 3, 15 jumped with 2, and 16 jumped with 1, as the drawing shows ( Ufo, please see all rhese jumped in the drawing, not just the two jumped pairs you mentioned )then the resistance is sweep during half cycle
                        in this direction R1------> and the second half cycle in the way back <---------R2 to complete a whole turn of the brush. In half turn the brush(contact) is approaching the side tap of one set of electromagnets and later in the other direction it is approaching the side tap of the other set of electromagnets.

                        R1------------------------------------------------------------>
                        1___ 2____3____4____5____6____7____8
                        16__15 __14___13___12__11___10___9
                        <-------------------------------------------------------------R2
                        Hanon,

                        That is exactly the same as going at:

                        1_2_3_4_5_6_7_8_9_10_11_12_13_14_15_16

                        Following THE SAME rotation (Brush sweeping Commutator NEVER changes directions!!):

                        R >->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->R

                        Commutator numbers are sequential from 1 to 16, as so the Brush sweep...and the fact that Figuera "reuses" the same sequence of resistors every 180º is what is confusing you.

                        There is HALF cycle (180º) from 1 to 8, then another HALF Cycle (180º) from 9 to 16 where the same resistors alignment start over again.


                        Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
                        Hanon you can NOT show just one signal for both Primaries like You are doing above. Remember they are going at UNISON, which means within the same Space/Time.

                        Like below:

                        [IMG][/IMG]



                        Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
                        Ufo, I do not know how you get to that interpretation of the patent. Please read again the patent and you will see that this is the sequence proposed. This sequence gives the two 180° unphased signals described in the patent


                        Image done by Kekho77
                        Now that Signal is fine (Original)...not just a single one!!

                        Take a look again at Figuera Image below:

                        [IMG][/IMG]

                        Vuelve a leer esa Patente Hanon!!...estudiala más...


                        Saludos


                        Ufopolitics
                        Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-15-2016, 12:33 AM.
                        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by bistander View Post
                          Sure Ufo, I considered the whole primary circuit including the supply.

                          Yes, the negative connections go from the N and S primary coils to points 180º apart on the toroid winding (represented by 8 and 1 respectively)

                          PartG is used as a voltage (or current) divider to proportion the current from the source to the primary coils N and S. It is desired to have a certain min/max relationship of current through N and S, where N is max when S is min and vice versa.

                          At 12:00 (point 8) on the toroid is where primary N connects, so when the brush (being at supply positive) is at point 8, maximum current goes to N. It is desired that at this point, minimum current will flow to primary S which is connected to point 1 on the toroid.

                          Current must flow through the toroid winding between point 8 and point 1 to have continuity to supply positive via the brush. There are two paths in the toroid winding between 8 and 1, the right side and the left side, which are in parallel with each other and of equal lengths and turns. So to figure the impedance of the toroid winding (8 to 1) we have 2 impedances in parallel, each with equal resistance and inductive reactance. Because the inductance of the 2 coils is linked, the mutual inductance must be considered. Because the current direction is opposite in the 2 halves of the toroid winding, that mutual inductance essentially cancels the inductive reactance for the equivalent impedance.

                          Therefore, the potential difference between point 8 and point 1 will for all practical purposes be zero. This means the current will not be a minimum in primary S as desired, but essentially maximum, the same as in primary N.

                          I only looked at this one position (brush at point 8) because this case has the 2 toroid winding halves equal and the parallel combination of 2 equal inductance coils with mutual inductance is easily calculated. Obviously the same is true for brush at point 1. All the other points in between I am unsure and not about to attempt those calculations.

                          I see the same results looking at it another way using the flux to figure inductance. I mentioned this to you before. When you have half of the toroid mmf CW and the other half equal and CCW, resulting flux is zero and therefore the inductance of the coils on the toroid is zero. As the brush rotates around the toroid, the potential changes and mmf (Ampere-turns) are unlikely to be equal and opposite so there may be inductance in the coils and impedance causing unequal currents in primary N and primary S.

                          My take anyway,

                          bi

                          edit: Weird thought. What if you wound the left half of the toroid backwards from the right side half? Mutual inductance would add instead of subtract.
                          Hi Bistander,

                          Yes, exactly, and therefore we must consider the resistance-reactance from both primaries N-S to have a full idea of the whole electromagnetic circuit right?.

                          But the point here is that we could conclude that Part G Toroid is receiving "some" Negative Input there, at 8 and 1 points, and since their resistance-inductance is up to some value we could then calculate the electromagnetic effects being developed at toroid iron core, which you seem to be disregarding or simply not considering them.

                          Take a look at my take in the two images below...when brush is sweeping left 180º side:

                          [IMG][/IMG]

                          [IMG][/IMG]


                          Regards


                          Ufopolitics
                          Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by bistander View Post
                            HI MM,

                            Thanks for the reply. I was looking for the root source of the 14.8 lbs/kW. Where did you get that figure or how did you calculate/measure it?

                            References would help.

                            Thanks,

                            bi
                            The way to calculate it is with the equation: Power = Force • Velocity

                            Taking as velocity the movement of the magnetic lines back and forth cutting the induced coil wires. Yo can go into further detail in this old post link. I recalculated that value of 14.8 lb/KW and I think it is adjusted for an induced coil length of 2 inches and a frequency of 60 Hz. If you are good with english units please confirm if I did it well or not. Thanks

                            Ufo, Nice graph with the two signals generated in the commutator. I think we were talking about the same concept with two different explanations

                            Seead, I understand your concern about the translated "small line y" but in spanish is also a weird way to call it ("linea y"). It also crashed my mind to see such a poor explanation of such an important part just with that word, or just calling it "induced circuit". Maybe you can also translated as "row y" referencing to the patent drawing where the 7 induced as placed one after another. Anyway, not even a proper wy to call it. We can take help from the latest Buforn patents where he call it as "another electromagnet between both inducer electromagnets".
                            Last edited by hanon1492; 10-15-2016, 10:31 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Hi marathonman,

                              I have been thinking about something and wondering if you can help.

                              At the point that the brush makes contact with the G core windings, depending on the direction of the winding on the toroid the effect can be either N,N at the area of brush contact or S,S at the area of brush contact. I am wondering if it matters and if it should relate to the primaries where the primaries may be for example N,N.

                              Comment


                              • More wierd translation or text

                                --> Hanon, all

                                Thanks for reply. I Have more weird text, a new part arrived to my mind from patent 44267.

                                ""the resistance makes the function of a distributor of the current because that current not going to excite some electromagnets excites others and so on;""

                                The above together with this; ""and always in contact with two of their contacts"", makes me think of another post from me in Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy februari.

                                Pls see my pic. with fewer steps below (N.b. L+R is Inductance and coil resistanse )

                                It seems to me that the electromagnets are to be connected gradually!

                                Hanon can you check translation?

                                Arne
                                Attached Files

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