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  • Visualizing the Magnetic Fields...

    Hello to All,

    I find this Project really fascinating!

    Ok, while some of you have been concentrating on your builds as other worries...I have been trying to "visualize" what is going on with the Magnetic Fields within the cores of the Inducers including the Core from part G...:

    [IMG][/IMG]

    So, this is my take on what is happening, trying to understand what Marathonman have carefully being explaining so far.

    In above simple diagram, I have set N1 for the Primary 1 on left upper, as N2 for second Primary 2 at right. Please note that I did both windings Opposite, relative to where they are feeding negative as reference.

    I also did part G Core in a straight fashion to help visualize what is going on here. Please note that -as MM said- the winding at partG Core is a CONTINUOUS One.

    I have shown arrows for linear movements of the Positive Input Signal, then reflected at lower section, when taking it to a Rotary displacement.

    All that is fine...However, the important part I consider here is what is going on with Magnetic Fields?

    First let's picture the Part G CONTINUOUS COIL AND CORE...and currents traveling, causing it to Energize.

    It receives a Negative Voltage Polarity transferred through both terminals coming from both Primaries...Plus it has a "moving" or could say "floating" Positive Input from Brush, therefore, based on that feed it magnetizes according to the Dual Magnetic Fields I have reflected, which in turns generates Two Polarizations for each Field. I have also named them as N1-N2 considering they are just same fields being "reflected" from Both Primaries.

    Now please try to visualize what Magnetic Field displacement takes place whenever we start moving that "Floating" Positive Signal.

    Yes, exactly that!...We are just "redoing" or could say "Echoing" or "Mirroring" the same Magnetic Field Process that is taking place between Primaries-Secondary, which consists on displacing Both N1-N2 along its ferromagnetic core and coils...Therefore, we are "Self Inducing" our Part G Continuous Coil by the displacement from their own currents coming back and forth from Primaries by constantly moving that floating positive signal.

    This -I believe- is the main reason why Marathonman keeps repeating that the System is "Self Sustained", since we have this process perpetually bouncing back and forth, as long as we keep the North Polarizations N1-N2 displacing along the Part G Core.

    It is nothing more than a very beautiful...and very Elegant way to keep a Constantly Renewable Magnetic Field Process between Part G and the Primaries.

    This is the reason why we must make sure all our Iron Mass plus number of windings should be carefully balanced, in order that there will be the least of losses in this beautiful magnetic exchange network.

    Next I am working on the correct relation (wirings) between Linear displacement transferred to rotary movement of the positive signal.


    Regards to All


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-13-2016, 02:22 PM.
    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
      Hello to All,

      I find this Project really fascinating!

      Ok, while some of you have been concentrating on your builds as other worries...I have been trying to "visualize" what is going on with the Magnetic Fields within the cores of the Inducers including the Core from part G...:

      [IMG][/IMG]

      So, this is my take on what is happening, trying to understand what Marathonman have carefully being explaining so far.

      In above simple diagram, I have set N1 for the Primary 1 on left upper, as N2 for second Primary 2 at right. Please note that I did both windings Opposite, relative to where they are feeding negative as reference.

      I also did part G Core in a straight fashion to help visualize what is going on here. Please note that -as MM said- the winding at partG Core is a CONTINUOUS One.

      I have shown arrows for linear movements of the Positive Input Signal, then reflected at lower section, when taking it to a Rotary displacement.

      All that is fine...However, the important part I consider here is what is going on with Magnetic Fields?

      First let's picture the Part G CONTINUOUS COIL AND CORE...and currents traveling, causing it to Energize.

      It receives a Negative Voltage Polarity transferred through both terminals coming from both Primaries...Plus it has a "moving" or could say "floating" Positive Input from Brush, therefore, based on that feed it magnetizes according to the Dual Magnetic Fields I have reflected, which in turns generates Two Polarizations for each Field. I have also named them as N1-N2 considering they are just same fields being "reflected" from Both Primaries.

      Now please try to visualize what Magnetic Field displacement takes place whenever we start moving that "Floating" Positive Signal.

      Yes, exactly that!...We are just "redoing" or could say "Echoing" or "Mirroring" the same Magnetic Field Process that is taking place between Primaries-Secondary, which consists on displacing Both N1-N2 along its ferromagnetic core and coils...Therefore, we are "Self Inducing" our Part G Continuous Coil by the displacement from their own currents coming back and forth from Primaries by constantly moving that floating positive signal.

      This -I believe- is the main reason why Marathonman keeps repeating that the System is "Self Sustained", since we have this process perpetually bouncing back and forth, as long as we keep the North Polarizations N1-N2 displacing along the Part G Core.

      It is nothing more than a very beautiful...and very Elegant way to keep a Constantly Renewable Magnetic Field Process between Part G and the Primaries.

      This is the reason why we must make sure all our Iron Mass plus number of windings should be carefully balanced, in order that there will be the least of losses in this beautiful magnetic exchange network.

      Next I am working on the correct relation (wirings) between Linear displacement transferred to rotary movement of the positive signal.


      Regards to All


      Ufopolitics
      Nice and clear post, verry well explain!
      Thank you for it!

      I also think it is the way it work.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Turion
        If you look at the patents of Figuera's partner after the death of Figuera, you will see that he put several pieces of core material in a row so that he had an electromagnet, receiving coil, electromagnet, receiving coil, electromagnet.

        By this means he was able to utilize the magnetic energy from BOTH ends of the electromagnets (all but two) and produce power in several coils in a series. So I would disagree that a Torroid is "required".

        Dave
        I dont have the time to test it yet but i think it could work also... I have post this picture some post ago. It is a close core but i dont see why a strait core wont work.

        I just wonder what happen with the magnetic field if we use the same solid core for all this coil..? Mabe we should have some small gap at some point on the core...
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Wistiti View Post
          I just wonder what happen with the magnetic field if we use the same solid core for all this coil..? Mabe we should have some small gap at some point on the core...
          Very good remark Wistiti. By now is still an unanswered question.

          Even Buforn in his last patent in 1914 did not closed the system completely even having the possibility to do it , and to patent it.

          The main question is if we are dealing here with an Open System or a Close System...




          Here a short video to refresh concepts: https://vimeo.com/155371936

          .

          Comment


          • A short animated video...

            Hello to All,

            Related to my previous post 1057 I made a short animated video, to help you visualize the Virtual Magnetic Fields Displacement in G Core and simultaneously effected on the Primaries...

            VISUALIZING VIRTUAL FIELDS DISPLACEMENT

            [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhlA_uKt9qs&feature=youtu.be[/VIDEO]

            Video is NOT perfect!, it was done too quick so, many frames are not accurate, I just made sure to swipe the center line between both Norths Fields completely from one end to the other of Secondary "S".

            However, the sweeping of Part G Core should have been wider, comprehending the whole core from start to end...As I am still playing this video on my mind...I believe the sweeping at the G Core should be Completely Opposed to the Sweeping taking place on Primaries, related to which Primary is at Max and which is at Minimum.

            But for this final conclusion...I must do a full 360 rotation of the floating positive sequence and taken it to the straight core and primaries magnetic interactions...

            I just shared video here for you all to see what I think is going on here...


            Regards


            Ufopolitics
            Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-13-2016, 06:41 PM.
            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
              Hello to All,

              Related to my previous post 1057 I made a short animated video, to help you visualize the Virtual Magnetic Fields Displacement in G Core and simultaneously effected on the Primaries...

              VISUALIZING VIRTUAL FIELDS DISPLACEMENT

              [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhlA_uKt9qs&feature=youtu.be[/VIDEO]
              ...
              Hi Ufo,

              Wouldn't the potential to the N1 primary be highest when the wiper (moving brush) was at the far left side of the "part G" coil? So the moving "lines" would travel in opposite directions from each other? Not that it makes a functional difference.

              bi

              Comment


              • Originally posted by bistander View Post
                Hi Ufo,

                Wouldn't the potential to the N1 primary be highest when the wiper (moving brush) was at the far left side of the "part G" coil? So the moving "lines" would travel in opposite directions from each other? Not that it makes a functional difference.

                bi

                Hello Bistander,

                Yes, you are correct, and if you look at the video post again, notice I have added:

                As I am still playing this video on my mind...I believe the sweeping at the G Core should be Completely Opposed to the Sweeping taking place on Primaries, related to which Primary is at Max and which is at Minimum.

                But for this final conclusion...I must do a full 360 rotation of the floating positive sequence and taken it to the straight core and primaries magnetic interactions...
                Yes, when the wiper brush (Floating Positive) is traveling towards the majority of coil turns that pertains to N1 Terminal, is when it is generating max currents for N1, so N1 should be reaching Max Field...meaning that they should work opposite.

                As this opposite travel is not conflicting with resistance values, which are decreasing as positive brush wiper travels towards N1 terminal, therefore R decreases and Currents (I) Increase...hope am correct now.

                This makes sense what MM mentioned before... about the magnetic potential from the receding Primary (in this case N2) would be then filling up the G Core on the opposite travel of brush wiper.

                Anyways, I believe in order to make all this properly and accurately, a Full CAD Animation which includes a Full Rotation (one cycle) of Brush should be done.

                I am trying to picture a hydraulic closed system (through hoses) where G Core is a Pump with two outputs...while the Primaries 1 and 2 are the two executing pistons so based on the pump movement they work in a Push-Pull arrangement.


                Thanks Bistander



                Ufopolitics
                Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-13-2016, 07:10 PM.
                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                Comment


                • New info

                  [/QUOTE]Well i hate to be the barer of bad news but my long time informer just informed me.
                  QUOTE;"
                  Part G has to be a closed core, a straight core wont provide the feed back function between the inducers or the amount needed from the output to cover losses." end quote. he gave me no other explanation.

                  I still think the notion should be pursued, but for now i have toroids i am working on. like similar to Cadman but i will have 16 top taps around a toroid with two on the bottom, one on each end for set N and set S.

                  when you think about the opposing fields in part G it is easy to see how the power from the decreasing electromagnets gets injected into the core and that magnetic field basically is either rotated and/or chases the brush around the core keeping said field strong by both sets of electromagnets every half turn.

                  as for the 1914 patent, i am not pursuing it but it did inform me that SS can be used in a toroidal fashion allowing one to utilize two opposite secondaries to be had.

                  turion;

                  I think he was Referring to part G not the primaries/secondaries unless i missed something. (the toroid)

                  I would like to add that it would be crazy to build a really long core like in the 1914 patent but i have studied it.
                  with that said you can't have either side of a core being compresses and feed part G without the coil being center tapped or duel coil arrangement. if you are pursuing it the pic below is my take on it. of course all electromagnets can be all N/N which i think they really should be.

                  Cadman;

                  part G has single layer only.

                  UFO;

                  "carefully balanced" and that my friend would be entirely correct assumption. it seams the light bulb has lit, as your thinking of the interaction of fields has improved thus opening your minds eye as to the possibilities of this device and function. THANKS FOR THE KIND WORDS ! in video.

                  Bistaber;

                  You are correct, as set N is high set S is shoving power into part G opposite side of set N input where the brush currently resides feeding set N.

                  Elcheapo;

                  "Thanks MM for jogging my stupid mind."
                  Trust me when i say "NO ONE" on this site is stupid, apparently you haven't visited OU web site.

                  https://s18.postimg.io/47wanjdjd/1914_Wiring_scheme.png


                  MM
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by marathonman; 09-14-2016, 07:02 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by marathonman View Post
                    At no time should the currant ever be taken down lower then half way let alone to zero.
                    at a 1 to 1 ratio, where the secondary is equal to the primary in length, the reduction will be closer to half. with a ratio of 1 to 1.6 it only has to be taken down 1/3rd of the way to clear the secondary, as the secondary is shorter with less space to travel.
                    This is how I see it:

                    The movement of the colliding fields plane is a balance of forces between the electromagnets which are increasing and the electromagnets which are decreasing.

                    The force in each electromagnet is related to its magnetic field (B) , neither to its length, nor to the ratio of length primary/secondary

                    Therefore, IMO I think that the change in intensity from max to min to transverse the whole induced coil is more related to the induced coil length than to the ratio of length primary/secondary. I do not see how that ratio may be related to the change needed in the electromagnets intensity to clear the whole induced coil.

                    Let make an extreme case to see it: suppose two electromagnets (primaries) one very narrow and one very long but both with the same magnetic field at max intensity. If the ratio of length primary/secondary 1:1 will be the right design parameter then in the first case you just may place a narrow secondary and in the second case you may place a long secondary. This seems (for me) weird in these two cases with electromagnets of same magnetic field. Or another case: two electromagnets of the same length in different devices, but one with 100 turns and other with 1000 turns, then in both cases you will place a secondary of the same length??. I guess you could place a longer secondary in the case of the more powerful electromagnets.

                    My view: The length of the induced coil act like a "friction" to the movement created by the force in both electromagnets. The longer the coil the more dissipation of the magnetic fields. You need to estimate the maximun and minimun force in the electromagnets as a function of the induced length. This system is a balance of forces and friction. This is how I see it. Please correct me if I am wrong.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by marathonman View Post
                      Well i hate to be the barer of bad news but my long time informer just informed me.
                      QUOTE;"
                      Part G has to be a closed core, a straight core wont provide the feed back function between the inducers or the amount needed from the output to cover losses." end quote. he gave me no other explanation.
                      Sorry for tell it MM, but I think that until the design of the variable inductance part G won't be more defined and known you will be doing a mess to those users who go for it and try to build it because it may make unsuccessful their projects.

                      I know that some users in the forum for sure have not yet read the patent. I just want to note for them that the variable inductance part G is not described as such in the patent. The patent just mentions a resistance or resistor, depending how you translate it. The rest are add-on over what it is claimed in the patent. I think your part G may work quite fine but at least for me it is not the easiest path right now.

                      Comment


                      • Electromagnets

                        If you have 3 inch primaries and three inch secondary that is a 1 to 1 ratio. if you have a 3.2 inch primary and a 2 inch secondary that is a 1 to 1.6 ratio. the later will only be taken down 1/3 power to clear the secondary. the first closer to 1/2.

                        if you have a 3 inch core with a 1 inch coil in the center, the magnetic field will not span out three inches beyond the end no mater how strong the field is compared to a coil that uses the full length.

                        all electromagnets should utilize almost the entire length for coil winding purposes to utilize the full potential of the magnetic field especially in this device.

                        so when i say ratios, it can be safe to say it is both i am referring to.

                        Sorry you don't understand part G from the patent. it was broken down by figuera in it's elementary form to facilitate understanding of the function only. if you reconstruct it in it's original highest form, you get what i have been describing for over a year now. and even though it may not be an easy path for some, that's just the way life is. some get it, some don't.
                        as for the people that have not read the patent, i'm not being rude when i say, "don't waist my time" you can't build or learn something without some kind effort put forth. not reading the patent is plain lazy and crazy, then stepping on this forum disrupting the flow. i guess we need to add a page where all the info about the figuera device is present and updated ass necessary referring all newcomers to that page first to get them up to speed like everyone on this forum is right now.

                        MM
                        Last edited by marathonman; 09-14-2016, 12:44 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by marathonman View Post
                          i guess we need to add a page where all the info about the figuera device is present and updated ass necessary referring all newcomers to that page first to get them up to speed like everyone on this forum is right now.

                          MM
                          Really a good idea!

                          Comment


                          • Hi guys,

                            remember one of the first simple experiments we tried? I mean sliding a coil back and forth on a core rod with two strong opposing magnets on its ends?
                            Ok, do it again, then short circuit the coil and do it again. Lenz IS at work big time.

                            Mario

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mario View Post
                              Hi guys,

                              remember one of the first simple experiments we tried? I mean sliding a coil back and forth on a core rod with two strong opposing magnets on its ends?
                              Ok, do it again, then short circuit the coil and do it again. Lenz IS at work big time.

                              Mario
                              Can you show it on video ?

                              Comment


                              • Boguslaw, the experiment is extremely simple, and even if I took the time to make a video, how could I show the resistance my fingers FEEL when the coil is shorted? You have to do it yourself.

                                Mario

                                Comment

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