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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • marathonman
    replied
    Primary Flux

    The flux field from the primaries occupy a space outside the primaries core so no mater what happens in the secondary, even a dead short, the primaries are not effected in any way, shape or form.

    Also the secondaries DO NOT MIMIC the Primaries exactly otherwise we would get a stair step in the secondary in which we will not. there is a slight delay that smooths over the secondary as if the E field is slightly slower then the magnetic field. i do not know what to call this action but it just happens.

    Seaad;

    Grow up !
    and yes we are still waiting for your BS device also. show us your Tinker Toy.

    Please stop wasting EVERYONE'S Time with your Mouth as it can't BUILD just RUN. our thread gets 630 views a day and this one 135 to 140 so trust me when i tell you, NO ONE IS COMING HERE TO HEAR YOUR BS OR SEE YOUR DUMB DEVICE.

    PLEASE STOP THIS NONSENSE.

    MM
    Last edited by marathonman; 01-20-2017, 08:16 PM.

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  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    Hi Ufo,

    Negligible? Maybe. But there are many devices where the excitation is DC with ripple on the magnetics and they design with laminated or ferrite cores.
    Agree Bistander, however, I believe you are referring to sensitive devices where minor distortions will affect functionality...what we are doing here is different...it is more "rough" or tougher handling of currents and voltages to obtain an Induction output which later could be filtered, smoothed out etc.

    Same way as in a Home Generator head is build up tough...referring to armature and fields etc...meaning, lots of welding runs (stitches) and bolts-nuts which go across laminations without much care about eddy currents or shorting lamination array.

    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    You know? It is the same flux in the primary and secondary cores.
    And if you get a zero crossing AC in the secondary winding, why don't you think you'll see reversing eddy currents? The eddy is actually like a secondary winding where the conductive core is the single turn "coil" - so to speak.
    Please, allow me to clarify your bold statement above...just a bit.

    Sorry but not exactly the same Flux in primary as secondary...secondary flux is a "mix", a fusion from two opposed magnetic polarizations...which generates a repulse field...and so, this formed repulse field is none of the two primaries fields if looking at each independently.

    So, for an instance, look at this formed repulse field which is what actually generates Induction at secondary...it moves back and forth, so, this forward-backward movement is what generates this back and forth flux within secondary core and coil.

    Now what takes place at each primary is just a field increase-decrease, gets stronger gets weaker...but same field, no reversing of currents nor flux.

    Let me put it another way...say we are NOT moving that Repulse Field Back and Forth, like Figuera device does...but a single direction all the time...say a constant rotation movement around a circular coil as secondary (on a Toroid Core maybe?)...we will still get induction at secondary. And so the higher the speed of the repulse field traversing the core...the higher the output.

    That's exactly how my Repulse Generator works...

    Originally posted by bistander View Post

    Brings up an interesting concept. Is your moving flux in the secondary core going to induce extra eddies in the core?

    Let's find out.

    bi
    It might, just because the repulse field resulting from both primaries pressures and the real cause for induction...is moving its flux back and forth along the core and windings...now, this effect does not happens at primaries.

    Hope you understand.


    Regards


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 01-20-2017, 07:17 PM.

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  • bistander
    replied
    Eddy currents

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    ...

    About the Primaries of the Figuera, like you've said, Bistander, they are working with one direction current flow and flux...so Eddies IMO would be negligible there.
    ...
    Hi Ufo,

    Negligible? Maybe. But there are many devices where the excitation is DC with ripple on the magnetics and they design with laminated or ferrite cores.

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    ...
    Related to the Figuera device I would rather consider to make all Secondaries with laminated cores...just because the flow there would be purely AC, therefore, reversing current flow, and a laminated core structure will generate a cleaner output sinewave without much distortion.
    ...
    You know? It is the same flux in the primary and secondary cores. And if you get a zero crossing AC in the secondary winding, why don't you think you'll see reversing eddy currents? The eddy is actually like a secondary winding where the conductive core is the single turn "coil" - so to speak.

    Brings up an interesting concept. Is your moving flux in the secondary core going to induce extra eddies in the core?

    Let's find out.

    bi

    Leave a comment:


  • seaad
    replied
    MM quote: figuera-device-part-g-continuum-serious-builders-only

    Keep up the good work guys, it won't be long now.

    Was BS'ing around today with nothing to do. just playing around

    always worried what OTHER PEOPLE are doing instead of concentrating on their OWN WORK.


    YES We*, I are interested and waiting....

    PS: * 630 views a day
    Last edited by seaad; 01-20-2017, 08:55 PM.

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  • seaad
    replied
    Ok UFOP You have your opinion/ experience, I have mine. My choice is ferrite and a much higher freq than 60 Hz. / Arne

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    About Eddy Currents and Laminated cores...

    @Bistander and Seead,

    I am sorry but IMHO you guys are paying way too much attention to Eddy Currents...as to laminations "insulation" (Seead)

    Lamination Cores in Transformers is clearly understood, as they are based on AC flow, where the creation of all kind of crazy inner magnetic vortexes of different spin directions are generated within core...so, fragmenting the core into laminations would diminish the area of action of such opposite and therefore "parasitic" vortices.

    Related to the Figuera device I would rather consider to make all Secondaries with laminated cores...just because the flow there would be purely AC, therefore, reversing current flow, and a laminated core structure will generate a cleaner output sinewave without much distortion.

    About the Primaries of the Figuera, like you've said, Bistander, they are working with one direction current flow and flux...so Eddies IMO would be negligible there.

    @Seead: Thanks for the REAL builder "title"...However, let me say that there are many builders which are just not showing their work at Thread...for many different reasons...even being shy...or just not speaking fluently the English Language...an example video is shown below:

    [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpvWTK-fj3s&t=3s[/VIDEO]

    About your almost "Surgical Detail" about laminated cores treatment...think that all Transformer Cores have welding stitches running from top to bottom, in order to keep laminations together...as well as in Motors and Generators Rotors and Outer Frames Laminated iron structures also have welding stitching plus steel bolts running across without absolutely any insulation and very tight...meaning, it is really "not that critical" at all...to take so many precautions when dealing with laminated cores...


    Regards


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 01-20-2017, 03:56 PM.

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  • seaad
    replied
    A tip to the builders on the forbidden thread.

    When you reuse old (rusty) transformers laminations and these have been have machined make sure that ALL EDGES of ALL SINGLE LAMINATION plates have been sanded, no sharp edges left. Secure that EACH lamination plate don't make ANY electrical contact to each other. Use/ spray some varnish again. In my experimentation I found this to be essential. And welded transformers are condemnable.
    YOU WANT OU, RIGHT!

    Bistander; right, the guys over there still think they are dealing with DC only.

    UFOP; The REAL Builder, Yeah!
    Regards, Arne
    Last edited by seaad; 01-20-2017, 12:29 PM.

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  • bistander
    replied
    Eddy currents

    Originally posted by marathonman View Post
    Eddies will be nonexistent in the primaries as the only time there will be eddies is at initial power up. other then that primaries do not have eddy current. that is why they are so efficient, no flux reversal.
    ...
    MM
    Eddies or eddy currents are currents induced in the ferrous core due to changing flux in that core. Most common is the case in transformers and motors (& generators) where the changing flux is due to AC excitation thereby causing flux reversals or changing polarity of the core. Eddy currents are a manifestation of Faraday's Law of induction. As such, the induced current (eddy) is a result of a change in flux. This change in flux can be a change in magnitude. It doesn't necessarily have to be a change in direction of the flux or change in polarity.

    The purpose of part G is to change the currents in the primary coils. True, this current does not change direction. Therefore the flux in the primary core(s) does not change direction, but it will continually be changing amplitude. So there will be eddy currents in the primary core(s) and losses associated with those eddy currents.

    Regards,

    bi
    Last edited by bistander; 01-20-2017, 01:31 PM. Reason: Typo

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  • bistander
    replied
    Who cares?

    Originally posted by marathonman View Post
    ...

    And again i see both of you were on my profile page looking at my pics and info again. so who is blow smoke up who's back side.

    NOT ME !

    MM
    MM,

    I do remember about a week ago hitting a wrong button while navigating this website using my smart phone. I did in fact notice your profile page loading as the *back* button quickly loaded the previous page. Big deal. Who cares? You I guess. Why? No idea. So what if someone looks at your profile page? Why do you keep track of such things? Are you paranoid? Or vain?

    Strange indeed.

    bi

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  • bistander
    replied
    Saturation

    Originally posted by marathonman View Post
    Mr What Ever,
    So how else do you explain the Erratic behavior of his scope. please enlighten us with you Genius prophecy minus your sarcastic mouth.....PLEASE. !

    Can you please try to be a little more cordial and a little less smart mouth as i have invoked nothing on my part.
    Test it please as your software will reveal NOTHING as it is dogma programming and does not deal with NN fields.
    Mr What Ever is cordial?

    You ask me for explanations concerning my statements and interpretations but don't give any yourself when I ask. Like how you calculated or otherwise determined saturation?

    I think it is obvious that the erratic behavior of his scope traces is due to erratic commutation. He even mentioned that.

    To what software do you refer? Did you think I used some program for calculating flux? I used the back of an envelope and calculator. The orientation and proximity of another coil or pole doesn't enter into my calculation. If you think it should, please provide your method to calculate flux density to determine saturation.

    Again, please demonstrate your method of determining saturation in his coils/cores.

    Regards,

    bi

    {edit}
    Originally posted by marathonman View Post
    please enlighten us with you Genius prophecy minus your sarcastic mouth.....PLEASE. !
    Are you being sarcastic? Ironic isn't it?
    Last edited by bistander; 01-10-2017, 03:50 PM.

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  • marathonman
    replied
    Really

    Mr What Ever,

    So how else do you explain the Erratic behavior of his scope. please enlighten us with you Genius prophecy minus your sarcastic mouth.....PLEASE. !

    Can you please try to be a little more cordial and a little less smart mouth as i have invoked nothing on my part.
    Test it please as your software will reveal NOTHING as it is dogma programming and does not deal with NN fields.

    Hanon;
    as i said you are a waste of ANYONE's time.

    And again i see both of you were on my profile page looking at my pics and info again. so who is blow smoke up who's back side.

    NOT ME !

    MM
    Last edited by marathonman; 01-10-2017, 02:23 PM.

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  • hanon1492
    replied
    More insults...then I can not leave

    Originally posted by marathonman View Post
    First of all Doug i was not arguing with this fool
    Foolproof is what users of the forum will need to be from now on, without a brake to your intelligent posts.

    Originally posted by marathonman View Post
    you are not worth my time nor anyone else's.
    Challenge not accepted by MM. I guess why.

    Good luck to All.
    Last edited by hanon1492; 01-10-2017, 02:51 PM.

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  • bistander
    replied
    Magnetic expert - not

    Originally posted by marathonman View Post

    Bistander;

    I still won't work, any metal near the secondary with a fast path to the primary will siphon off so much that you won't get a reasonable output. even the pressure between the primaries will be hard to maintain as nearly all flux will be diverted through the half E.

    test it for yourself please !

    MM
    Hi MM,

    I'll test it when I can be assured that the Figuera device operates as self powered O.U. energy source. At that time I'll either buy one or build one. But as of this date, I have seen no evidence that it will meet my minimum criteria.

    As to your opinions of the magnetics involved with my idea of use of E-core to improve the magnetic circuit, they don't mean much to me. I don't think you know what you're talking about. I base this on past posts from you regarding magnetics. Most recently, one from the other thread. See below:

    Originally posted by marathonman View Post
    UFOP;
    The reason you are getting erratic behavior is what we talked about on the other thread about a week or so ago. your primaries and secondaries are completely saturated. try dialing down on the voltage and amperage to a small amount then work your way up. this was also verified from Doug as to the cause.
    ...
    MM
    Mr. Ufo has stated enough of his design and operational parameters to do a basic calculation of the flux density in one of his primary coils. That comes out to be about 8 mT (or 0.008 Tesla). And even a cast iron core material would saturate about 0.5 Tesla. So he is about 2 orders of magnitude too low to worry about saturation.

    So what gives with your statement that cores were "completely saturated"? If you care to list your calculations, perhaps we can find the error. Or was your statement sarcastic again?

    Just keep on giving your followers advice. Someday you're bound to get something right.

    Regards,

    bi
    Last edited by bistander; 01-10-2017, 06:32 AM. Reason: Typo

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  • marathonman
    replied
    Hold the phone

    First of all Doug i was not arguing with this fool, i simply brought up the FACT the info he tried to claim as his was NOT HIS TO CLAIM.

    Second, what is with you?? you suddenly pop your head up out of the blue, scold us, then disappear. wow that was real helpful. i say BS.
    thanks pal, what are friends for when you could of been on the continuum all along with no arguing but i guess me trying to find the right people that would listen to you wasn't enough.

    HONON; you are not worth my time nor anyone else's.

    Bistander;

    I still won't work, any metal near the secondary with a fast path to the primary will siphon off so much that you won't get a reasonable output. even the pressure between the primaries will be hard to maintain as nearly all flux will be diverted through the half E.

    test it for yourself please !

    MM
    Last edited by marathonman; 01-09-2017, 08:13 PM.

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  • bistander
    replied
    E-core backiron

    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    Hi hanon,

    The tube you show is not what I had in mind with E-core. I'll try to get a diagram with better explanation.
    O.K. So I gave it a shot and took CM's simulation:



    And added an E-core:



    Yeah, I know. Not too good with the graphics. But hopefully you can get the idea. I think to use just one section of E-core lamination stack where the cross sectional area is equal to that of the core thru the coils. This way, all the flux from each end of the core thru the coils can go thru the backiron (E-core) to the center leg and there downward thru the seconday coil turns into its core and complete its circuit. The flux lines would cut the secondary conductors at quadrature like I've been telling Ufo they do in generators. The void areas in the E-core (shown in white) represent high reluctance paths and will direct maximum flux where you want it; crossing the secondary coil.

    Just an idea. Use it or lose it.

    bi
    Attached Files

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