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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    Hi Ufo,

    I notice you having difficulty with excessive current using resistors. Assuming your switching device (comm & brush) and resistors are set as shown below (except a single pair of primaries), then to get a 2 : 1 swing in resistance (and therefore current) the total of the series connected resistors needs to equal the Ohmic value of a primary coil. If your coil resistance is too low and you wish to test this, add a resistor in series with the coil so the total of that resistor plus the coil resistance is equal to the sum of the series resistors being switched in and out.

    bi
    Thanks Bistander,

    Ok, if I go based on your "patch" then I have a total of 70 Ohms at resistor bank (in reality)...and so, the resistance at A Set of Primaries would be less than 1 ohm (0.4 + 0.4)...meaning I have to add a series resistor of 70 ohms, or say 69...to each primary...then we are "balanced" now?

    How about the currents going there?

    How about the Field generated there?

    Very low, very weak, respectively...

    Resulting in a very low induction gain.

    Thanks Bistander, but I was referring to some issue where we all approach more to the Figuera way of thinking...


    Please take a look at IMG below from Silvanus Phillips Thompson Book...related to a Potential Reading taken from a Gramme Ring Dynamo..:

    [IMG][/IMG]

    So, the Left Diagram shows the Positive-Negative Brushes Input Graph...and Left is the same thing but in a Linear Display.

    Now the Left Linear Image applies directly to Our "Ideal" Operating Resistive Path (whether by Resistance or by Inductance Resistive Mimicking of Current Fluctuations)

    If we relate that to the Figuera Resistors Bank (a more simple explanation than Inductance)...This is exactly to what I am referring to.

    And this means that the transfer switching taking place at 180 should be EXACTLY like that...smoothly landing down as it smoothly rises up untill it reaches Max Resistive Value NOT at any end of 180...but exactly at 90 degrees or Linear Center of the resistive path.

    This way when Brush switches from full contact back to resistive path (and again this works for either Inductance or Resistance Paths) it smoothly starts rising up, and NOT abruptly finding a clogged path of high either ohmic or opposition by inductance to current flow...no matter which.

    I know that Graph above refers to "Potential Path"...and not "Resistive Path"...still, the Graph have a resemblance to what I am trying to explain.

    I am working physically on my lab...so I gave the Graph Guy the day off......so can not make any CAD's now...but here it would be useful related to resistive path graphic.


    Regards


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 02-07-2017, 04:36 PM.

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  • bistander
    replied
    To Ufo

    Hi Ufo,

    I notice you having difficulty with excessive current using resistors. Assuming your switching device (comm & brush) and resistors are set as shown below (except a single pair of primaries), then to get a 2 : 1 swing in resistance (and therefore current) the total of the series connected resistors needs to equal the Ohmic value of a primary coil. If your coil resistance is too low and you wish to test this, add a resistor in series with the coil so the total of that resistor plus the coil resistance is equal to the sum of the series resistors being switched in and out.

    bi

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    [IMG]
    [/IMG]
    Last edited by bistander; 02-07-2017, 03:49 PM. Reason: image

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  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Magnetic Field and that's ALL!!

    Originally posted by boguslaw View Post
    Magnetic field is the source of energy. Once you know that you can make Figuera generators, though I think there is a few inventions which must be combined to make it self-sustaining and overunity. But the principle is just that :

    magnetic field is the source of electrical energy ,never the mechanical force.

    All other is simply a result of this principle.
    Hello Boguslaw,


    Well said!, could not do it any better!!

    Everything, but I mean ALL, spins around the Magnetic Field...all the rest are just "By Products" from it.

    Through History they have tried to "Entertain" and so cover up the real truth...

    Electric Field is just a "Byproduct" derived from the Magnetic Field.

    If there would have never existed the Magnetic Field on Earth...Electricity would have never existed anywhere on this Planet...simple as that!

    But they have twisted the real Magnetic Field Spectrum...taking Us all away from the real magnetic imaging.

    Very convenient though...for Oil Cartels.

    All this farce make Us look at the Figuera Device like it is just Sci Fi stuff...can not be done.


    Regards



    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 02-06-2017, 08:55 PM.

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  • boguslaw
    replied
    Erfinder is correct : " Lenz is not holding any of us back, ignorance, and its cousin arrogance is. "

    Leave a comment:


  • boguslaw
    replied
    Magnetic field is the source of energy. Once you know that you can make Figuera generators, though I think there is a few inventions which must be combined to make it self-sustaining and overunity. But the principle is just that :

    magnetic field is the source of electrical energy ,never the mechanical force.

    All other is simply a result of this principle.

    Leave a comment:


  • seaad
    replied
    Ask marathonman on http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...s-only-14.html if he wants to reveal the principle. He has already built an unit 100W in 300W out. / Arne

    P.S See; http://www.energeticforum.com/297930-post399.html
    http://www.energeticforum.com/292324-post926.html
    Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
    Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
    Last edited by seaad; 02-05-2017, 11:56 PM.

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  • boguslaw
    replied
    Originally posted by seaad View Post
    I'm extremely glad on your behalf that you now seems to have found the Clemente Figuera overtunity principle on the Figuera builder's thread!

    Regards Arne
    Which principle on which thread ?

    Leave a comment:


  • seaad
    replied
    Yes!

    I'm extremely glad on your behalf that you now seems to have found the Clemente Figuera overtunity principle on the Figuera builder's thread!

    Regards Arne

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  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    Ufo,

    Thanks for the lenghty reply. Using the Figuera device, I'll ride your horsey a bit further down the path. Give me a little time to mount the beast.

    Later,

    bi
    Bistander,

    Got it...I also have a lot of work plus tests to do today...take your time.


    Regards


    Ufopolitics

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Reply to Ufo

    Ufo,

    Thanks for the lenghty reply. Using the Figuera device, I'll ride your horsey a bit further down the path. Give me a little time to mount the beast.

    Later,

    bi

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Significance...of a "Dead Horse" or is it a Stallion?

    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    Just above zero enough to get the domains aligned in the core material I guess.
    Hello Bistander,

    Just above zero?...any measure above?...sorry but your "guess" is not that "broad" of an analysis... needs to be just a bit deeper:

    It is not just to get the domains aligned in the core material (by using singular "core" sounds like you are just considering one core)...when in reality there are two cores interacting there, exciting and excited, and so this Magnetic Field Strength must start at the Exciting core (assisted by reminiscent magnetism) and "grow" (could also say Field Expansion) to such strength Spatially to reach and to Influence (or paraphrasing Figuera: to Magnetize) the Excited Core.

    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    And in your home genny, it would have to be high enough to overcome forward diode drop and then the resistive drop. As you dial up your power supply for your Figuera test circuit I guess there will be some slack around zero to overcome in the power supply and circuit. But I fail to see the significance.
    You are failing to see the significance just because you are concentrating on the electrical circuit; diodes, resistance, etc...Diodes plus resistive drops just takes place in the startup of the exciting system, once it start running all these drops become negligible because of the power increase on the system as it gains speed or saying it Faraday's ways...at higher rate of "change"...remember?).

    That "Point" refers specifically to Field Magnitude during generator normal operation, not just to bypass startup current forward drops, but to be able to generate the Operating required EMF Induction at the Excited Circuit Output.

    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    And what is the value of that point? In volts or amperes.
    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    So what is that point? Volts, Amps?
    Every system (Generator) have different values, it depends on many factors like Core size, Geometry, configuration or type of the exciting system, load capacity, etc,etc

    And it is not Volts "or" Amps...but V "and" A, meaning both included...say Watts as a more complete approach. However, depending on the Exciting Coil configuration type...like winding wire gauge and number of turns plus core size...the two (V&A) could radically change the Distribution on the V&A input. For example, my "genny"... has an exciting coil of 65 ohms and very fine wire, meaning many turns...therefore, this config requires higher voltage (175V) and lower amperage (2.0 A) to produce the required Field Strength or Magnitude.


    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    So those are the designed operating parameters. What's your point?
    Those operating parameters, since they must be On at all times (meaning they are a fixed constant) in order to generate the required exciting field magnitude -from my point of view- could become a mathematical "Constant"...let's name it "EC" for Exciting Constant, then we could work, based on the Exciting Core Configuration having also fixed parameters values, like Core Volume (CV), Number of Turns (NT), wire gauge (AWG), etc, to take it into a simple Equation.

    For example:

    CV(Core Volume)+NT(Number of Turns)+AWG(wire Gauge) = EC (Exciting Constant, given in V&A)

    And of course we could bring the Equation down to more "detailed", specific parameters, like CV could be broken into A (Cross Section of core) by(multiplying) Length (l), or [A . l = CV] and this applies for a rectangular or cylindrical core. And so, obviously, CV parameters depends on Core Volume Geometry, where a Toroid Core have a different way to calculate its CV.

    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    What's your point?
    My point is to reach an Equation which based on a given EC (Exciting Field Constant Feed), say 50V and 4 Amps...we could then calculate our other parameters having (knowing) at least just one of them...say Core Volume (CV)...then find required AWG and Number of Turns (NT).

    And so, once we calculate Exciting System, then we could move on a Second Equation for the output excited circuit, parting from its exciting system...in Figuera's talking about the secondaries.

    Final Destination: A Full Design of the Generator by Scaling Equations which could be adapted to our Figuera System.


    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    I don't think so. It may be the case for a particular system, but it is not an universally valid statement.

    And I disagree with this.

    Regards.

    bi
    It is ok to disagree...but this is a fact, every Generator works with a Fixed Field Strength Value which operates FULLY ON at all times, so this System Feed is also Constant, reason why the Farting Machine must keep up RPM's constant, so it keeps feeding back properly (Torque enters the "variable scenario" when an external load is applied, but it remains constant at idle by a Phantom Load created by its own Exciting System)...and this applies to any size generator...no matter if it is brushed or brushless...self or externally excited, etc.

    On the other hand, I know You may wanna bring some more complex machines, like a Three Phase kind...where exciting System works a bit different...but this is NOT the point here...we (I basically) am looking to start my analysis with simpler machines like a Home Generator...Single Phase.

    Jumping into more complex generators before satisfying what we are looking for here, with simple machines... is just going to make noise and generate confusion.

    Figuera is based on a simple Generator related to Primaries Secondaries, which could only relate to a Single Phase Generator, except that its Exciting System is split into Dual Cores-Coils acting on a single excited core... and so, only thing to do is split the Equation for two cores from a Single Exciting Core basic Equation, with the Same feeding Constant on V&A (EC).

    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    Let's call this a dead horse and if you want to beat it further, start a new thread or show its relevance to the thread topic.
    Of course anyone could see this topic is "very relevant" to this Figuera Thread and also to the Continuum Builders Thread.

    If You do not see it so, maybe just because you do not agree with it...or because you have not even run the simplest test about the Figuera Device operation, so, you are missing the great potential this development means at all...then it becomes just your isolated, singular point of view and so your lonely opinion here.

    And related to this Thread...the Thread Owner (Wonju) has abandoned it long time ago...so it is really just a "revived thread" from many different members...and so it have no administrator to rule what is and what's not "Topic Related" that I know off.

    Concluding..This Topic is Not about a Dead Horse to me...:

    [IMG][/IMG]

    but a very Young, Alive, Strong and Very Fast galloping Stallion.

    You wanna take it for a ride?...it is Up to You...but...just got to be a very good experienced Jockey to do it.

    And please, do not "beat" it...Stallion may get very upset...and you riding it...


    Regards and Good luck on your ride...


    Maybe I could hear the opinion from other Members here...if they could "handle" the Stallion...




    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 02-02-2017, 04:33 PM.

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  • bistander
    replied
    Reply to Ufo

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    But of course you know that!!...of course you know very well there is a specific Field Magnitude point, or range which could be even better defined as Strength and Volume, on the EXCITER SYSTEM of any Generator in order to "start" the growing Induction Process all the way to the expected output.
    Just above zero enough to get the domains aligned in the core material I guess. And in your home genny, it would have to be high enough to overcome forward diode drop and then the resistive drop. As you dial up your power supply for your Figuera test circuit I guess there will be some slack around zero to overcome in the power supply and circuit. But I fail to see the significance.
    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    And so, just a minimal value below that "point/range" will collapse Induction at mains.
    And what is the value of that point? In volts or amperes.

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post

    Examples?...My Old Home tested Generator that I have shown before...the one my neighbor gave me....and that I conducted several readings on the exciting field V & A, and Citfta and You helped me to get connections right...remember?

    That Exciting Field needs to range in a specific Voltage (170+ V) and a certain specific amperage (+/- 2.0 Amps) in order for the Required Field Magnitude to generate the 4400 Watts on Induced Coils.
    So those are the designed operating parameters. What's your point?

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    On a more specific example and "Topic Related"...On my Figuera Resistor Testing we could see that effect even more "vivid" I could say...when dialing up V & A on PSU feeding Primaries...there is a "Specific Point" where Induction will start "showing" at secondary(ies) at low speed...but that's not all...it must increase when speed increases without touching those V&A values. And so, a drop of a few Milli Units whether on V or A...will collapse Induction no matter speed of small motor.

    This point serves me to be able to check compare different type of components design/structures in order to see which one would be more effective in the search process.
    So what is that point? Volts, Amps?

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    Comprende Amigo?
    I don't think so.

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    ..However, we all know that the Field Magnitude is also proportional to the EMF result.
    It may be the case for a particular system, but it is not an universally valid statement.

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    Meaning, there is a "point" in the field strength scale where there would not be any EMF output, no matter how much that change rate increases.
    And I disagree with this.

    Regards.

    bi

    Let's call this a dead horse and if you want to beat it further, start a new thread or show its relevance to the thread topic.

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Originally posted by Allcanadian View Post
    When we build and test we must ask ourselves how can I verify what I think I'm seeing and measuring?.
    I agree.

    I am aware of what you describe below although I have never seen it demonstrated in a 1" aluminum plate. One might liken it to reasons why streams and rivers flow not in straight paths to the ocean even across seemingly flat land.
    bi

    Originally posted by Allcanadian View Post
    Did you know a current across a 1" thick block of aluminum plate never follows a straight line as we generally believe it should?. You see it's own magnetic field causes it to bend in an arc given the chance, what we call self-induction where the current produces a magnetic field which then changes the path of the current in this case. One would seldom suspect this is true until they followed through and actually measured the path of the current and it's magnetic field across the aluminum plate with various sensors. In this case it was proven that the current does not always take the shortest path of least resistance because of it's own existence.

    The devil is always in the details and everything must always be questioned then verified.

    AC

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  • Allcanadian
    replied
    Hey Bistander
    I was responding to Ufo and what I thought he meant by serious research. Candle light or garage benchtop research can indeed be serious. I think my own "lab" is a step up from that, but with self funding with my means, humble to say the least. Occasionally I get serious there.
    I understand you were responding to UFO when I barged in and I wanted to add a little context and maybe a little humor.

    Have you ever played golf?, I love just getting outside and smacking the ball around. It doesn't take long to figure out the follow through is almost as important as hitting the ball. A good follow through happens after the fact however it also gives a good indication of the swing into the ball and the strike.

    Research is like that and it is one thing to measure something and quite another to follow through to determine what was actually measured and if it gave us any real insight. In the Figuera device I used my DSO to measure the parameters in regards to the Primary/Secondary coils like most would then I used a $2 hall effect sensor to correlate current/voltage versus field strength and direction.

    The trick here is to remove as much speculation from the equation as we can. Do the two primaries fields actually expand and contract in unison, how do they interact, where do they interact, is it as we expected or is something else happening?. It is strange that a $2 sensor has shown me so many things over the years that I have never read in a book. Research and experiments are hard enough as we all know and most often it is the little things we take for granted and simply pass over that effect the outcome.

    When we build and test we must ask ourselves how can I verify what I think I'm seeing and measuring?. Did you know a current across a 1" thick block of aluminum plate never follows a straight line as we generally believe it should?. You see it's own magnetic field causes it to bend in an arc given the chance, what we call self-induction where the current produces a magnetic field which then changes the path of the current in this case. One would seldom suspect this is true until they followed through and actually measured the path of the current and it's magnetic field across the aluminum plate with various sensors. In this case it was proven that the current does not always take the shortest path of least resistance because of it's own existence.

    The devil is always in the details and everything must always be questioned then verified.

    AC
    Last edited by Allcanadian; 02-01-2017, 06:48 PM.

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  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    Hi Ufo,

    Back on your post #1771:

    But is off topic here. Sorry I mentioned it again.
    Wow Bistander...like I wrote to you on my recent post, specifying "in our conversation" I did not mentioned "Conspiracy" meaning You and Me discussion. is exactly what I meant in the whole sentence...that post was addressed to Duncan...(I had to search for it to give link here...all the way to page 60).

    Conspiracy word...I have mentioned on this Forum about a Billion Times...for sure and may run short...


    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    Good you realize this. But then how can you go on to say this?

    "we all know that" ? I'm sorry but I don't know. I don't think what you say is correct but it is difficult to understand its meaning. Can you cite a source or give an example?

    Regards,

    bi
    But of course you know that!!...of course you know very well there is a specific Field Magnitude point, or range which could be even better defined as Strength and Volume, on the EXCITER SYSTEM of any Generator in order to "start" the growing Induction Process all the way to the expected output.

    And so, just a minimal value below that "point/range" will collapse Induction at mains.

    And of course, this is putting aside the ratio of change or speed, torque, etc,etc.

    Examples?...My Old Home tested Generator that I have shown before...the one my neighbor gave me....and that I conducted several readings on the exciting field V & A, and Citfta and You helped me to get connections right...remember?

    That Exciting Field needs to range in a specific Voltage (170+ V) and a certain specific amperage (+/- 2.0 Amps) in order for the Required Field Magnitude to generate the 4400 Watts on Induced Coils.

    On a more specific example and "Topic Related"...On my Figuera Resistor Testing we could see that effect even more "vivid" I could say...when dialing up V & A on PSU feeding Primaries...there is a "Specific Point" where Induction will start "showing" at secondary(ies) at low speed...but that's not all...it must increase when speed increases without touching those V&A values. And so, a drop of a few Milli Units whether on V or A...will collapse Induction no matter speed of small motor.

    This point serves me to be able to check compare different type of components design/structures in order to see which one would be more effective in the search process.


    Comprende Amigo?


    Take care


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 02-01-2017, 07:44 PM.

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