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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • Hi all,

    I have been thinking about the possibility that Figuera´s 1908 patent have electromagnets placed with like poles facing each other. Although in the patent are named as "N" and "S" electromagnets there is no explicit reference to their real pole orientation.

    All electric generators are based on the principle that magnetic lines must cut the wires of the induced circuit.

    When the electromagnets are placed with like poles facing each other, electric induction is achieved because the magnetic lines, during their swinging back and forth derived from the 2 opposite magnetic fields (one increasing and other decresing...), cut the wires of the induced.

    I have attached two different sketchs with possible configurations for this implementation. One is a simple configuration, while the second sketch has a closed magnetic circuit to keep the induced field inside.

    Like poles facing each other

    Like poles plus close magnetic circuit

    Regards

    Comment


    • will O'wisp

      [QUOTE=hanon1492;250193]Duncan,

      Your device is very different to Figuera generator. You state that your device require high frequency to run, maybe KHz or MHz and also require to be tuned for series resonance. Figura used a motor to drive his commutator so he should have worked at 50 Hz or less. Also there is no reference to any capacitor to get into resonance.

      I think Figuera based his generator on a way to get the wires cut by the lines of force in a motionless machine.[/QUOTE

      Hi Hanon .. sorry been busy and missed your post ... Try to keep an open mind here but the frequency I comtemplate is the speed of switching across the commutator which in turn of course is related to rotor speed. It is also I suspect the 1/4 wave resonance that is critical.
      all that aside whichever or whatever system you consider the nail is driven home by this simple truth .. the battery must be being rejuvinated by a hither to unknown method using far less energy than is being extracted .
      there is only one condition I can think of that comes close to explaining that and of course its series resonance. I have seen it once or twice now and like everyone else am chasing it but find like everyone else its like chasing 'Will O'wisp' .. It doesn't conform to known maths and science , many have seen it with Davids battery system ... ah but to hold it in obeyance thats a very different thing. It is true I may be considering somthing a little differently but not that different .. The battery must remain charged ... ergo this is common to every system
      Whatever you can do,or dream you can,begin it.Boldness has genius,power and magic in it.Begin it now.

      Comment


      • Hi Duncan and all

        I have from time to time been looking at this thread and I have two things that I have thought about

        1. I really think this works, reason, well he went to a lot of trouble at that time and showed it worked to many.

        2. I think the switching was extreamly sharp, nsec, causing some very high voltages which may not be flyback but another fenomenen which can be created today using a diode with special junction.(DSRD)

        This is just thinking allowed, but might explain why many inventions can't be repeated, I have always stated that is needed nsec pulses in many claimed OU devices, frequency may not be the problem, look up DSRD nano pulser circuits.

        regards

        Mike

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
          Hi Duncan and all

          I have from time to time been looking at this thread and I have two things that I have thought about

          1. I really think this works, reason, well he went to a lot of trouble at that time and showed it worked to many.

          2. I think the switching was extreamly sharp, nsec, causing some very high voltages which may not be flyback but another fenomenen which can be created today using a diode with special junction.(DSRD)

          This is just thinking allowed, but might explain why many inventions can't be repeated, I have always stated that is needed nsec pulses in many claimed OU devices, frequency may not be the problem, look up DSRD nano pulser circuits.

          regards

          Mike
          I whole heartedly agree Michael and just to stretch the elastic a bit more with a broad outline of my suspicions for Hanon .. because its no longer a case of 'if' but rather 'how'
          the logic goes sort of like this .. there is a resonant condition not mapped by Fourier, not explained in maths and as far as electrical science is concerned .. non existent. The linear wave is denied and more so the possibility of linear wave resonance yet here it is demonstrated with acoustics

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJAgrUBF4w

          you may see a sine wave pictured but of course the movement is lateral … as your ear is, a drum, its hit by linear wave. In simple terms an abrupt change. Just as you suggest very sudden change w.r.t time
          This particular resonance then is rather the opposite of everything you normally consider as a resonant state.
          It is (for me at least) exemplified by the 'Coiler's ' that band of guys who spend hours searching to hold Tesla coils in odd wave resonance. Usually ¼ wave Whilst holding the primary circuit in even wave resonance
          various methods have evolved each with their own acronym one of these is I.M.H.O very important especially when lead acid batteries are involved … that for the Tesla coiler guys is the long acronym DRSSTC which breaks down to .. double resonant solid state Tesla coil .. well of course the first resonant state we have chapter and verse on from the kiddie on the swing to the pendulum as an example to follow.
          The second condition Nada ….It doesn't doesn't officially exist, (but of course we know it does) we just don't have the language maths or science to use it.
          What of the Tesla coiler's then? It seems they have discovered techniques to hold the coil in series resonance regardless of changes in the environment or frequency. I think that's exactly the state we aspire to with the lead acid battery regardless of if its the 3BGS this system or any other.
          Effectively parallel resonance with regard to the load whilst holding the lead acid battery in series (pulse) resonance. And of course that rapidity of change becomes paramount.
          See Tesla coil and revise DRSSTC double resonant .. solid state .. Tesla coil that I suspect is the condition that needs application,.. regards the lead acid battery. So far I cant hold it stable however the lead acid battery of today is a very different proposition the construction a hundred years or so ago.
          Here Mike is a screen shot of a modern Tesla coil DRSSTC which is using feed back from the secondary to hold ¼ wave resonance using the primary coil feed rather in the fashion of switched mode PSUs ..in fact the chip they are using for feed back is just that. you see the quick switch. Superimposed as you envisage.



          of course a Tesla coil isn’t a lead acid battery.. but I suggest its what we are attempting to do .. hold that battery in pin point series linear wave resonance regardless of dramatic changes in the battery itself.
          Anyway I'm perhaps just chewing the cud but its what I've been trying to do and hold stable for a while now regardless of by which or whatever method I think It applies
          I wish I could say .. this is it and I've done it but I haven't managed to hold it steady … still like you Mike I am convinced its the switching speed and impulse resonance .. and I care not any more who finds it and manages to hold the condition, or on which thread or even on which forum because I suspect holding this very delicate state is what we are all chasing
          Whatever you can do,or dream you can,begin it.Boldness has genius,power and magic in it.Begin it now.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Duncan View Post
            I whole heartedly agree Michael and just to stretch the elastic a bit more with a broad outline of my suspicions for Hanon .. because its no longer a case of 'if' but rather 'how'
            the logic goes sort of like this
            Duncan,
            I recommend you to read this whole thread from the beginning to the end and see which user has made public the 4 patents from 1902 (which were lost in the historical Patent Archive) and which user has translated all the patent in order that english speakers may study them. I guess you have not read it yet. Later, you are free to think what you what. I just told you that Figuera did not mention any capacitor nor he worked in KHz or MHz range. Maybe your system is fine. I don´t know. Just built it. In my case I have not been able to find the key to Figuera device yet. I am just thinking aloud of different possibilities of his patents after studying them for a long time. Just to show people different possibilities if they want to try.

            Please participate in the thread if you test are in line with Figuera patents or you have any helpful idea, but do not judge anyone with no clues.

            Good luck

            Comment


            • Poles orientation

              The discussion about pole orientation comes from time ago. The problem is that Figuera in 1908 patent did not clearly stated the pole orientation (He did it in the 1902 patent, but not in the 1908 one nor Buforn did it in his latter 5 more patents !!!). I will copy literally what it is written in the 1908 patent (both in the text and in the claims) so that everyone may judge if this a properly way of defining the pole orientation or maybe it is just a patent notation “trick” using the letters “N” and “S” (Note: in Spanish , North = Norte , South = Sur)

              In the description: “Suppose that electromagnets are represented by rectangles N and S. Between their poles is located the induced circuit represented by the line “y” (small)”

              In the claims: “The machine is essentially characterized by two series of electromagnets which form the inductor circuit, between whose poles the reels of the induced are properly placed.”

              We should test every single possible configuration to avoid missing anything. Possibilities:
              -Opposite poles facing each other
              -Like poles facing each other

              It is all about testing also this configuration. Just in case ...

              Just to help.

              Comment


              • cry , cry ,cry

                Ah well Hanon far be it from me to discourage folks who are trying … some few of us have seen COP>1 devices doing what they do and understood the significance of it . That however is a very different thing to understanding the physics and the science of what is happening.
                If that could be grasped the game is up. Many have done and seen it, to engineer it in a predicable way is another story altogether.
                I have sniffed that sweet scent .. many others have too I know, Mike is one .. I know only to well. That to plait hair can be difficult .. to plait fog harder still, To make it disappear in an instant .. well that does take a little explaining however Mike is recorded as doing that . I also saw similar in the centre of an antenna array In Cheltenham.
                The significance of course doesn't seem apparent I believe it is .. like Mike I believe that switching is critical and like Mike I am simply 'thinking aloud' with regard to have I read, every post? .. yes I have which is very different from saying I comprehend and fully understand every post , no one here does or it would have been done and dusted long ago, Its just as simple as that,.. well .. isn't it?
                I have spent hours and hours building and spent so many thousands I could … cry cry cry.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRPjjgSX4Vs
                Others even more so lets at least consider what Mike is saying and I am indicating .. and why.
                It is rather in contradiction to what you say Hanon … do you really mind?
                You consider there is ' no capacitor' if I were to suggest to the learned council that a lead acid battery could be considered a Huge capacitor , well what would the jury say?
                You don't consider high frequency .. never mind UHF to be involved lets simplify that .. frequency is by definition an event recurring in a certain time.
                You Hanon are viewing the square wave form as portrayed as the de facto frequency (50 Hz or whatever) Not so Mike and neither I … at the instant the voltage changes the impossible is occurring from one voltage to another in zero time ( is that really happening … or can it be made to happen ?) you simply assume the impossible is so. Take a deep breath and focus on that instant.
                It is certainly central to every COP>1 machine I have ever tangled with, in one form or another be it spark gap, armature,vibrating contact, inductive fly back .. Its always there.
                That change in the twink of an eye Hanon could equally be expressed as infinite frequency .. that is maximum change .. in zero time, It is beyond the considerations you are thinking of.
                Not so Mike and if I understand him rightly and he seems to be considering exactly the same thing I am .. The speed of that switching action … quarter wave resonance , but again we just Mull these things over and try as best we may to make the pieces fit.
                This has been done over and over Hanon .. and like you and Mike and many others I think and know it works .. alas its not really what we seek, Its the physics behind that most elusive butterfly we all seek. The why and how
                Whatever you can do,or dream you can,begin it.Boldness has genius,power and magic in it.Begin it now.

                Comment


                • I bet frequency is no issue. Figuera did that what he could with iron cores, surely higher frequencies are possible and also higher voltage. Each have their own difficulty.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by boguslaw View Post
                    I bet frequency is no issue. Figuera did that what he could with iron cores, surely higher frequencies are possible and also higher voltage. Each have their own difficulty.
                    Not the frequency but the sharpness of the pulse. I think the QEG is also similar and in a lot of similar items. Using nsec changes in induction, very high voltages can be generated.

                    regards

                    Mike

                    Comment


                    • IMHO Much in common with the reactive lead acid battery rejuvenation I know you built and had success with boguslaw, but far better tuned, and that certainly wasn't resonant at 50 or 60 Hz is it ? but some overtone much higher up the scale.
                      That really is the problem isn't it? folks make something that works but don't fully comprehend the physics behind the reason why (and that certainly includes me) that then makes it impossible to engineer /duplicate/replicate. I have had the 3BGS running as many others describe a few times .. also the doughnut arrangement I wrote about as well as the series resonant battery rejuvenation you tried yourself
                      The engineering of exactly why.. that is what we all lack.
                      For instance what you saw happening with a heavily sulphated battery should be impossible. I suspect this and many other systems are a variation of that switching time .. view that change in voltage as a switch (like Mike does) and then view the switch in the arena of 'de-bouncing' a contact
                      except of course we wish to use the effect to reach extremely high frequencies not cancel it out.
                      http://www.eng.utah.edu/~cs5780/debouncing.pdf
                      So perhaps you could say the frequency you are measuring or watching on a scope has no relevance and you could well be right, however I believe the huge array of frequencies contained in the envelope that we see and assume is an 'instant' switch action is important. Still I guess all of us have formed our own picture of what might be happening here, Its what makes the subject of COP+1 such a thrill and frustration .
                      Whatever you can do,or dream you can,begin it.Boldness has genius,power and magic in it.Begin it now.

                      Comment


                      • virtually created rotating magnetic field

                        At Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
                        hanon1492 and NoMoreSlave have discovered and disclosed how to to create a spinning magnetic field in a motionless device.
                        It is done with two sine signals, which are phase shifted by 90 degrees:
                        Last edited by marxist; 05-11-2014, 09:13 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Tesla copied

                          Originally posted by marxist View Post
                          At Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
                          hanon1492 and NoMoreSlave have discovered and disclosed how to to create a spinning magnetic field in a motionless device.
                          It is done with two sine signals, which are phase shifted by 90 degrees:
                          Hi Marxist.
                          This was invented by Tesla back in 1888 and used in most AC motors nowadays.
                          Take care.
                          Ben

                          Comment


                          • Hi all,

                            The idea from NoMoreSlave has a lot of merit, and it must be studied in deep. I think it is the more fresh idea into the forum since a long time !!

                            He proposes that Figuera maybe placed the two 90º unphased coils at right angles, not in front of each other as the patent drawing shows. This is the relation between Sine & Cosine in a circle. Maybe this is the hidden key into Figuera´s coil placement.

                            Please comment this great idea from NoMoreSlave:

                            - Two 90º unphased signals are as a Sine wave and a Cosine wave. Sine (alfa + 90º) = Cosine (alfa)

                            - If you place both electromagnets at right angle (perpendiculary) then the vector sum of both magnetic field vectors is a ROTATING MAGNETIC FIELD !!!


                            He also proposes a toroidal secundary coil

                            Please download his sketch and study it: Sine + Cosine = Rotation (by NoMoreSlave)

                            Gif animation: Sine + Cosine Vector Sum = Rotating Vector

                            Other images:




                            Please comment this idea. Thanks!

                            The Figuera thread is more active into overunity dot com forum. Please go there to see more details.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • Figuera motor + generator (Patent 30376)

                              Hi all,

                              In the 1902 press it is mentioned that the Figuera´s apparatus "comprise a GENERATOR, a MOTOR and a sort of governor or regulator, and the whole apparatus is so simple that a child could work it" (link to the press clipping)


                              I think that maybe the working apparatus in 1902 was related with the moving coil patent ( Patent No. 30376 ). We have just focused into the motionless patent (No. 30378) but, maybe, the real working apparatus was the one based on the moving coil patent.

                              Patent 30376 in pdf: http://www.alpoma.com/figuera/figuera_30376.pdf

                              Drawing from 30376 patent

                              Maybe in 1902 the generator was based on the moving coil system, and, latter, in 1908, Figuera tried to improve it and, then, he moved the fields instead.



                              Please see this link and the demo video included inside: Motor + Generator website

                              In the next link there is a list with 50 different designs for a motor + modified generator: Link


                              It is just a thought. Maybe we have overlooked the real important Figuera patent. Comments please !
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by hanon1492; 06-02-2014, 10:27 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Hello Hannon, I do believe you are correct, the dynamics in rotating devises, are hard to replicate, in static form.

                                Also I think the pure iron core materials used back then, with little or no residual magnetism, and mechanical switching, also help complete the picture.

                                I will follow these things up, and report, when time allows.

                                Regards Cornboy.

                                Comment

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