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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • Hello Bi,

    I think your idea would probably work fine. This motor is completely isolated from the frame so it would be a good candidate for that modification. These motors can be gotten pretty cheaply. Just look for some surplus electrical supply places. I think I only gave 8 or 10 bucks each for a couple of them. The first ones I got were poorly packed and the brush holders were broken. I contacted them and they send two more so that is why I had an extra brush holder. They didn't want the first ones back.

    Take care,
    Carroll
    Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by citfta View Post
      Well, I am kind of confused. I was sure a saw a post from Dwane where he asked me to show how I had my part G (the modified motor) connected to the primary coils. Now I don't see that post. There have been some strange things going on lately on some of the forums with posts disappearing and other strange things.

      Well anyway since I have gone to the trouble to make a picture of how it all does together I might as well post it.

      In the picture you see a red wire coming from my power supply going to the slip ring. This is the input power to part G. From the slip ring a wire goes to the other end of the motor as I explained in an earlier post. There it connects to one of the commutator tabs so that means it is now connected to all the armature winding.

      As the armature is turned by the other motor you see coupled to my part G, the wire gets closer to one brush and farther away from the other until it reaches the one and then moves away from that one towards the other and so forth over and over. What this actually does is keep adding and subtracting turns of the armature coil to each end of your primary coils.

      From one brush holder you see a red wire going to one primary coil and a black wire from the other brush holder going to the other primary coil. The returns of both coils are tied together and the black wire coming from the power supply is connected to them. I do not show any connections to the secondary in order to create less clutter and confusion in the picture. I hope this is all clear.

      Carroll
      Hi Citfta,

      You are not going mad! I had a magic moment and realised that you were using the existing rotor fields as the "G" winding. Then I thought the question was redundant. Also, it occurred to me also that would an ordinary rotor with a commutator work? Either DC or AC.

      Thanks for the reply, and my apologies for the confusion!

      Regards

      Dwane

      Comment


      • Hi Dwane,

        Yes I believe any rotor with a commutator should work fine. From what I understand about the Figuera device the rotor size should match the size of the primary coils. I don't mean physically, I mean electrically. So that you get the proper back and forth action of the magnetic fields. I do NOT know how you would get that match except by experimentation. Maybe Ufo has some more input on that thought.

        Take care,
        Carroll
        Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.

        Comment


        • Match

          Originally posted by citfta View Post
          Hi Dwane,

          Yes I believe any rotor with a commutator should work fine. From what I understand about the Figuera device the rotor size should match the size of the primary coils. I don't mean physically, I mean electrically. So that you get the proper back and forth action of the magnetic fields. I do NOT know how you would get that match except by experimentation. Maybe Ufo has some more input on that thought.

          Take care,
          Carroll
          Hi citfta,

          This is a strange application, but for the lack of anything better, I suggest using impedance match, partG to primary coils. Of course both parts need to handle the same current recognizing partG likely has two parallel paths. Impedance matching source to load is typical for maximum power transfer.

          Regards,

          bi

          Comment


          • Hello,

            Well one thing I have been trying to explain all along here...is that when we FULLY excite a coil-core, it's Field "grows" radially whenever compared to the lowest input, and not "specifically" towards where secondary core is...(we only wish it would be a "FULLY directional growth"...but it ain't.)...And this fact causes huge losses all around SPATIAL area not utilized on the secondary induction.

            And of course, a HIGH CONCENTRATION of the Field Will tend to displace towards where the other piece of ferromagnetic core is (Magnetic redirection)...Therefore, in geometry shape field would be like a distorted (pulled) ellipsoidal shape towards iron.

            Figuera's Generator as is on the 1908 patent is PURELY LINEAR PLUS DIRECTIONAL Displacement of the homogeneous field composed by the two primaries.

            Therefore, I would check first one primary attached to Citfta's part G, plus just the secondary CORE attached to this primary...then use MM suggestion with a paperclip JUST COVERING From Secondary Core CENTER to BOTH, RIGHT-LEFT ENDS...Then watch clip-needle displacement if it covers both extremes...As it "SHOULD" move that clip-needle all the way to other opposed extreme -of secondary core- at full excitement.

            As when Part G is feeding that only primary at its MAX RESISTANCE value when we turn it by hand 180, it should return idealistically at opposite extreme of core...but that ain't gonna happen unless we turn coil then field completely off...so the realistical goal we should have is -at least- that clip return to Center of secondary core.

            Next step when successful would be to add the other primary...realizing that the repulsion force from both fields would take care of pushing the FORMED field all the way to each extreme of secondary core...wherever the needle-clip ends...that's where we should end our secondary coil...worthless to add it beyond travelling scope of the NN Field.

            The way I see this field fluctuations to be really effective, is when they are very short in axis travelling length...I see faster response, with much less energy spent on primaries Fields...and the excess of energy will come at higher RPM'S.

            Regards


            Ufopolitics
            Last edited by Ufopolitics; 08-29-2018, 02:56 PM.
            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

            Comment


            • Ac Series Motor

              Hi Guys,
              Is this what I am looking for. Series AC/DC motor. Not that anyone calls them that. I take it that there are two coils in the armature that are series connected and separated in the middle by the brushes? Get dual outputs.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • Yes, that is the kind of motor you want. You will of course need to go back and read my post on how to modify it to work as a part G. The field coils are not used.

                Carroll
                Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by citfta View Post
                  Yes, that is the kind of motor you want. You will of course need to go back and read my post on how to modify it to work as a part G. The field coils are not used.

                  Carroll

                  Hello Citfta,

                  I've been thinking about adding some small resistors between element's hooks at commutator, in order to smooth the signal?

                  Also been wondering what would happen to signal plus to output results if you excite with a small current the stator coils?

                  ...and maybe add a parallel cap at both stator coils in series after excitation to see if they would retain some energy, contributing this way to balance/increase inductance response.

                  I have not had the chance to play with your idea...but I do want to test it.


                  Regards


                  Ufopolitics
                  Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                  Comment


                  • Hi Ufo,

                    Those are all things it would be interesting to try. I have even thought it might be interesting that instead of connecting a power supply to the slip ring we might connect the slip ring to the common of our primary coils and then energize the field coils to make a generator that would have opposing AC signals. If you get a chance to try some of these ideas please post the results and I will do likewise. I just finished a major job on my wife's car so I should have a little more time.

                    Take care,
                    Carroll
                    Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by citfta View Post
                      Yes, that is the kind of motor you want. You will of course need to go back and read my post on how to modify it to work as a part G. The field coils are not used.

                      Carroll
                      Hi citfta,
                      Thanks for the heads up. I can organise one of these motors and follow your instructions. Might take a few days getting one delivered.

                      Just out of interest, we are not looking for any radiant spikes are we? Just smooth sailing: the ambience being sucked into the secondary coil by the load?

                      Regards

                      Dwane

                      Comment


                      • Hi citfta,
                        I spend today looking at the patent and my design options. It has occurred to me that you have actually deciphered Clemente's design! With the exception of the dual pole rotor on the "G". What the original patent shows is a switch and coils, literally a commutator and armature coils from a series wound motor!
                        F...ing brilliant! No wonder he stated that he used parts lying around.

                        What he has done by removing his field coils and using the armature is to remove the Lenz impediment.

                        You are a very clever person!!

                        Regards

                        Dwane

                        Dwane

                        Comment


                        • Missing photo

                          Hi guys,
                          I come back in to look at the layout using the MY motor and this has disappeared.

                          So what is serious here?

                          Dwane

                          Comment


                          • Hi Dwane,

                            I am not sure what you mean. The picture of my modified motor connected to the MY scooter motor is still there in post number 2781 of this thread.

                            Carroll
                            Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.

                            Comment


                            • Diagram

                              Originally posted by citfta View Post
                              Hi Dwane,

                              I am not sure what you mean. The picture of my modified motor connected to the MY scooter motor is still there in post number 2781 of this thread.

                              Carroll
                              Hi citfta,

                              Still thinking about your armature partG idea. I found a diagram of a 2-pole armature which can help visualize the operation and modification.


                              From: https://www.nidec.com/en-EU/technolo...r/basic/00014/

                              Diagram (b) is best help. It is depicted as a motor armature with brushes connected to a battery. For use as partG, replace the battery with the 2 primary coils in series, with the power source connected to the junction of the 2 primary coils. Now the other power source lead connects to commutator bar where armature coils a & b are connected. Right?

                              I think I see an issue but would like to get your agreement with the above before diving into it. I wish I had computer graphics software and skills, but I think the diagram above will suffice for now. I think most of these cheap universal motor armatures will have more comm bars and probably even counts. That really doesn't matter, the diagram can still apply.

                              Regards,

                              bi
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bistander View Post
                                Hi citfta,

                                Still thinking about your armature partG idea. I found a diagram of a 2-pole armature which can help visualize the operation and modification.


                                From: https://www.nidec.com/en-EU/technolo...r/basic/00014/

                                Diagram (b) is best help. It is depicted as a motor armature with brushes connected to a battery. For use as partG, replace the battery with the 2 primary coils in series, with the power source connected to the junction of the 2 primary coils. Now the other power source lead connects to commutator bar where armature coils a & b are connected. Right?

                                I think I see an issue but would like to get your agreement with the above before diving into it. I wish I had computer graphics software and skills, but I think the diagram above will suffice for now. I think most of these cheap universal motor armatures will have more comm bars and probably even counts. That really doesn't matter, the diagram can still apply.

                                Regards,

                                bi

                                Hello Bistander,

                                I think you've got it right...

                                Citfta sends the source positive through a wire from slip ring to just one element of commutator...which travels through armature via one wire.

                                I honestly do not see any issues with this design, exactly SAME thing as rotating one positive brush through a fixed commutator.

                                On previous part G there was an issue with Inductance balancing and I believe on this design could be erradicated if we use one side stator coil en series with one brush as so the other brush in series with opposite stator coil...this way magnetic flux will be forced to stay at the active side only (high).

                                Just my 2 pennies...


                                Regards



                                Ufopolitics
                                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                                Comment

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