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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • Originally posted by Listener192 View Post
    Hi UFO,
    Hi L192,

    Originally posted by Listener192 View Post
    My point on patents is that people do patent concepts that they have not tested
    I am sorry but you can NOT speak for ALL Patents out there, since there are MANY which have been tested and proven before even filling an Application for a Patent...For example, I can cite myself on that list, I have a Motor and Generator Combination Patent, where I previously build a prototype, called in legal terms "Specimen".


    Originally posted by Listener192 View Post
    ...and just because a concept has a patent it does not mean that it works.
    Yes, I agree above, as there are many who just write an idea and then Patent it...However, I do not believe it is the individual's or "idealist" inventor's fault...but the Patent Procedure Application System which is wrong...It should be enforced, in order to apply for an Utility Patent, to INCLUDE a Specimen as part of the procedure.

    But neither You nor Me or anyone else here could change that system established for too long...reason why we see such stupid patents filling up all the data search.

    Originally posted by Listener192 View Post
    My own simple experiment regarding the ideas that Figuera had, was interesting but not convincing enough to warrant deviating from other projects I am working on.
    I believe that's a "start up" error...bold and underlined above..."simple experiments" would never reveal that it works for real, basically in Energy Generation Systems derived from Electromagnetism.

    Originally posted by Listener192 View Post
    As for the work you have already completed on your previous configuration, the one you claimed O.U. on, I would have thought that you would be going all out to demonstrate test results that would support that finding.
    Sorry but I have not "completed" absolutely nothing yet. Reason why I still have ALL previous configurations as components very "functional".

    1- My first successful configuration was done with a single-positive brush driver (Just like Figuera exampled), exciting just one Coil and another one paralleled to it (Bifilar) with a Cap in a closed tank circuit, projecting an alternate field to primary exciter one, I have shown results, pictures and explanations on how it was put together with full spec's in previous posts here.

    On above set up, I have tried several coils-cores combinations, as different spec's wires, turns, layers, etc,etc. However, I have not go back to that switching system again to test my newer sets which I have done by Field Reversals.

    2- I put together a second driver, which I have shown also here, where I have tested several coils-cores as well, with this Field Reversals method.

    I just have written (described) all above experiments in a VERY BRIEF WAY...As they have consumed several hours of work, brain frying plus money in materials and labor.

    Unfortunately I had the PC issues, which I have still not being able to fully resolved as of NOW, which has prevented me from uploading all corresponding testing and results videos. That PC was the Main and faster one I had, designed to run all software graphics and animations I have rendered here previously.

    Right now I have been working on a very slow PC, just able to load pic's and write here.


    Originally posted by Listener192 View Post
    I agree that having sufficient test equipment to perform these tests is expensive, but would really save investment in time, exploring avenues that don't yield positive results.

    Most claims of O.U. turn out to be measurement errors.

    Regards

    L192
    That basically "applies" whenever we have very slight differences between I/O, when we need sophisticated equipment and tools to demonstrate our small measurements "above" Input are really OU...and even so, what we would be generating is a "measurement war" here....IMHO, NOT WORTHY IT.

    After I am done with PC work and getting it back running again, then I will start getting up to date on my YT Chanel, then posting them all here.


    Regards


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 01-23-2018, 03:50 PM.
    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cornboy 555 View Post
      Hey UFO and all, i am still plugging away at this, but very time poor at the moment, with soooo much farm work.

      Am still working on 96 bar internal commutator, to supply G every second turn, still with a split Netica winding.

      My G is closely wound with 2mm wire, hoping to create enough induction in the toroid to limit the current flow.
      Will post on any progress as it happens.

      Best regards Cornboy

      Hello old friend!!

      Yes I know...life friend, that's the way it is.

      But I know you will finally get to it and so prove it works or not...


      Kind Regards


      Ufopolitics
      Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

      Comment


      • -
        Listener192: "and just because a concept has a patent it does not mean that it works"
        If I remember right hanon told us, in some post, that a working unit (with OU??) was made and shown to the patent office. This was a must to get the patent issued. Correct me if I'm wrong.

        "the one you claimed O.U. on, I would have thought that you would be going all out to demonstrate test results that would support that finding"

        But s**t happens! The time will give us the answer.
        Open secondary with high Volts and the same made short cut with many Amps is not OU. I normally put a resistor across the output poles. Adjust it to give half the open Volts value. Thats mostly near optimal output. Then I use that reading to compare with the input values to see if I got OU. . . .But I have certainly misunderstood you UFO?

        "Most claims of O.U. turn out to be measurement errors."
        Thats right! In my case I used a formula suited for a normal transformer at my Bi-toroid-type transformer. Volt x Amp x Cos Thats probably wrong. But I have a bunch of guys beside me. Thane Heinz, Bill Alek, Bro . . .Normal transformers have Primary and Secondary on the same and only core.

        UFO: "When I am to prove OU, I go based on the Power Known Parameters, which are simply Voltage and Amperage from Input versus Voltage and Amperage at Output, which could easily obtain Wattage on both I/O levels, just by simply multiplying VXI=W."
        I agree to that. But it's not always possible.

        Regards / Arne
        Last edited by seaad; 01-23-2018, 06:27 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seaad View Post
          -

          ...Open secondary with high Volts and the same made short cut with many Amps is not OU. I normally put a resistor across the output poles. Adjust it to give half the open Volts value.
          It is NOT just about reading higher voltages with no load...it is about Voltages Drops but NEVER reaching zero value (meaning, NEVER completely dead), NOPE!...to the point I can run AC Tools, like a fan or a drill, or a saw, etc,etc.

          But I grasped something very interesting you wrote above..."Adjust the Load Resistor"?...Now, I know you work with micro-voltages and milli-amps (no pun intended, honestly...)...Are you referring to a potentiometer?

          I find it interesting, since we would be able to regulate the load resistance, (like a variable load unit does, but that costs a fortune) then from there run the proper Ohms Law Calculations, measuring V Drop at terminals as amperage in series with variable resistor (potentiometer)...am I right?

          In my set up I would have to search for a specific higher wattage variable resistor (I have been searching for it previously for other uses, and they are also pretty hefty in price) which could run without burning up.


          Originally posted by seaad View Post
          Thats mostly near optimal output. Then I use that reading to compare with the input values to see if I got OU. . . .But I have certainly misunderstood you UFO?

          Regards / Arne
          Nope, You did not misunderstand me at all.

          What you may have missed...is that I do not get V drops to zero, not even when I short with amp meter...I have shown pics about it previously..remember?

          Regards


          Ufopolitics
          Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
            But I grasped something very interesting ..Are you referring to a potentiometer?

            but that costs a fortune

            What you may have missed...is that I do not get V drops to zero, not even when I short with amp meter
            About potentiometers. I'm using potentiometers very seldom. I'm using them to make rough measurements. Then I measure the pot value and change to a (some) fixed resistor(s) with nearest standard value, in parallel or in series if needed.

            At your low speeds it is possible to use bulbs but you have to calibrate them first and make a graph showing the relationship between voltage and current (at different Hz, mean values there). You have to be aware that bulbes are non linjer fellows which flickers at low speeds meaning that the Ohms fluctuates.
            At higher frequencies you have to include the coil (filament) existing inside the bulb ==> impedance (R & L).

            When you short cut the output with an amperage meter you are using the amperage meter built-in resistance (some Ohm / mOhms) across the poles. That's why you have some volts remaining there.

            As you know I'm searching for the OU Effect so I'm reading now earlier posts in the Figuera thread. And this is a taste test which I think suits you and bistander except for the 3-phase angles.
            https://www.google.com/patents/US20020125774

            Regards / Arne
            Last edited by seaad; 01-24-2018, 08:11 AM.

            Comment


            • Thanks

              Originally posted by seaad View Post
              ...

              As you know I'm searching for the OU Effect so I'm reading now earlier posts in the Figuera thread. And this is a taste test which I think suits you and bistander except for the 3-phase angles.
              https://www.google.com/patents/US20020125774

              Regards / Arne
              Thanks for the interesting patent. It uses the 3-phase stator winding from a motor (or generator) to produce a rotating magnetic field. The rotor is replaced with a stationary iron member. There is no physical (mechanical) motion in the resultant machine. Yet it produces a rotating magnetic field when excited by a 3-phase source. I tried to explain this method to Ufopolitics when he started experimenting with moving fields in stationary cores.

              The patent claims that this rotating magnetic field can "generate" power in a winding which can be used to do work while also replacing the original excitation source. In other words, once started, it becomes a standalone electrical power source with no inputs, electrical, mechanical or otherwise.

              I wonder why this was never brought to market. It's like 16 years old. Just a few years left on the protection. And I imagine not too difficult to work around the weak (IMO) claims. Like isn't it essentially a wound rotor induction motor with a locked rotor? Or for that matter, like an alternator with a locked rotor?

              Regards,

              bi

              Comment


              • Thanks for your response bi.

                The main question here is: Does the "secondary" windings (locked squirrel cage windings) really perceive the non moving member and its rotating magnetic field(s) in the same way as a real magnetized rotating member with atoms and all flying by?
                The whole thing is just a wery complicated "transformer" anyhow!

                In the squirrel cage motor the squirrel cage is always lazy and goes slower than the rotating fields.
                Maybe this can be arranged by making the rotating exciter magnetic field go ahead the secondary with some degees (90 - 180) in the generator without moving parts. Or even faster =Hz depending of the load?

                Regards / Arne
                Last edited by seaad; 01-25-2018, 11:22 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by bistander View Post
                  Thanks for the interesting patent. It uses the 3-phase stator winding from a motor (or generator) to produce a rotating magnetic field. The rotor is replaced with a stationary iron member. There is no physical (mechanical) motion in the resultant machine. Yet it produces a rotating magnetic field when excited by a 3-phase source. I tried to explain this method to Ufopolitics when he started experimenting with moving fields in stationary cores.

                  The patent claims that this rotating magnetic field can "generate" power in a winding which can be used to do work while also replacing the original excitation source. In other words, once started, it becomes a standalone electrical power source with no inputs, electrical, mechanical or otherwise.

                  I wonder why this was never brought to market. It's like 16 years old. Just a few years left on the protection. And I imagine not too difficult to work around the weak (IMO) claims. Like isn't it essentially a wound rotor induction motor with a locked rotor? Or for that matter, like an alternator with a locked rotor?

                  Regards,

                  bi
                  Looks like TPU ;-) Something like this was patented before in 40-ties if I remember correctly but only for one phase.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seaad View Post

                    ...When you short cut the output with an amperage meter you are using the amperage meter built-in resistance (some Ohm / mOhms) across the poles. That's why you have some volts remaining there.

                    Regards / Arne
                    Hello Seaad,

                    Oh, your guess above sounds so "coherent", as it also makes sense...

                    HOWEVER, what about if I tell you that still is above zero volts when radically shorting out without Ammeter shorting it?...but just the two output wires from the secondary coil twisted together?



                    So, no resistance from meter now (still connected but shorted terminals, so zero amps at its digital screen as seen above)...and still voltage does not drops to zero, V= Left Meter?

                    You can see Scope Blue Chanel (Output) showing the small square wave...Yellow Chanel is Input.

                    We only have left the resistance from the secondary coil being outputting the voltage under short?

                    Please, be my guest, explain it now...


                    Take care


                    Ufopolitics
                    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 01-27-2018, 06:34 PM.
                    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                    Comment


                    • UFO
                      Some Ohms left somewhere hiding inside yor magpies nest! Pls make a diagram with meters + FWB plotted.
                      Magn. ind. between cables / probes?? I have got faulty readings (angles) when earth part from probes goes near coil even with my in your eyes tiny currents.

                      Regards / Arne
                      Last edited by seaad; 01-27-2018, 08:26 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Summary

                        In my pursuit of the Figuera OU Effect I have found some parts in the patens texts more important/ interesting than others, according to me. (Right now ) . . . See A, B, C below.
                        Much of the talk about resistance, commutators and such are lots lots of patent 'smoke'. And is more or less; education in how to make current variation. And even the wiring circuitsery / sketches. They are just sketches. In the patents you can read: " what is sought is the patent for the application of this principle " !


                        A)
                        (1908) " circulates a proper current, which is taken from one foreign
                        origin into one or more electromagnets, magnetize one or more
                        electromagnets"

                        " and while the current is higher or lower the magnetization of
                        the electromagnets ((one or more)) is decreasing or increasing and varying"

                        B)
                        (1914) " but in no case is there any communication between the induced coil
                        and the inductor coil "

                        C)
                        (1914) " and we will collect from these induced ((y)) the resulting
                        phenomena experienced from those inductors. ((N, S)) "



                        A) One or more electromagnets
                        Here is a situation of Rotating/ Vandering Magnetic Fields possible. Or just varying the amount of something.

                        See even the patent dicussion some post above. The Rotating Magn. Fields OU genny.
                        https://www.google.com/patents/US20020125774

                        1) Just connect a current/ voltage variation to all electromagnets simultaneously/ alternately, (parallel, series or groups).
                        2) Or connecting to One electromagnet after a another, consecutively. Back and forth, back and forth.
                        3) Connecting/ adding to more and more electromagnets in parallel or series. And disconnect/ subtract coils one by one backwards again.

                        At 2) and 3) a rapid current variation can be working at the same time as "the consecutively" or "the more and more" electromagnets is to be conneted step by step in a slower rate. And here the discussion of " make before breake " maybe comes in. It can maybe be important that the next coil is connected previous the disconnection of the first in a situation of Vandering Magnetic Fields?

                        B) No communication y ==> (N, S)
                        I have conducted a test closely related to the "2SGen" 2SGen, an amazing tiny Solid State Generator by JL Naudin

                        In my test I could not achieve NOT y ==> (N, S) (One direction Only) but instead NOT y <==> (N, S) (bi-directional non-connection)

                        As J. Naudin I used a fully wound toroid as input coil (N, S) and a large width wounded coil(loop) as output coil (y) around the toroid as a equatorial belt around the toroid-"belly" .
                        With a Sinus signal connected to the input toroid coil. No signal at all could be measured from the surrounding output coil!
                        But when some neodymium magnets where placed on the side of the toroid core a strong signal comes from the loopcoil (output). The same in opposit direction if (y) was used as input!
                        With the input coil in parallel resonance I achieved a 75% transfer Input to Output with this a simple experiment.


                        C) Phenomena from inductor coils (N, S)
                        Here the author just say that some phenomena (OU??) originates/ arises from from the primary side. And the secondary coils/reels (y) just collects the energy.
                        How and What is the questions?


                        Regards / Arne
                        Last edited by seaad; 01-29-2018, 10:13 AM.

                        Comment


                        • The show goes on

                          Clemente Figuera

                          Clemente Figuera

                          Regards / Arne

                          Comment


                          • Here is another impressive system similar to Figuera. Working as I think according to my A)-thoughts in post #2691 above.

                            170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYlU4UNz6EE&t=1s
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf-PL6j84vU
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_-xw_hL8nQ
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1abEsE4R3U

                            Regards / Arne

                            Comment


                            • Hello Arne, thanks for the videos and info!

                              Well..."The Principle" behind those whole bunch of wires plus hardware, is very simply and GENERALLY DEFINED AS:

                              "A MOVEMENT OF THE MASSLESS, TRANSPARENT (TO OUR EYES), WEIGHTLESS AND VIRTUAL MAGNETIC FIELD(S)"

                              In the case you have shown, we just replace "MOVEMENT" by a "ROTATION" in above sentence, to make it "more specific" to this application.

                              Something that I have been telling about, over and over and then more over and over in THIS WHOLE FORUM for a LONG TIME.

                              If you want to understand what he is doing...it is simply demonstrated (even though pretty rough) by his piece of wood with two rotary magnets (First Video)...and so when he inserts it within the MOTOR STATOR CORE, then we see the two small magnets spinning...I did that, done that before.

                              He is using Arduino Microprocessor plus a bunch of transistors, plus a bunch of relays, just to achieve the SEQUENTIAL EXCITATION OF EACH COIL IN THE MOTOR (STATOR) FRAME...


                              And so, he is STORING all the Energy in the 18 SUPERCAPS, in order to allow the "JUMP" or use that circuit as a TRANSFER SWITCH, which allows the SELF OPERATION of the whole machine.

                              To me, IMHO... just the fact that the System is able to SELF-SUSTAIN, is a GREAT ACHIEVEMENT, REGARDLESS OF OU OR NOT.

                              What I liked about his setup, is the AC MOTOR STATOR which have -ALREADY BUILT IN- sequenced and OVERLAPPED COILS, and obviously He is exciting each one in a continuous, sequenced order with a DC FIELD coming from his Relays Output...Relays get the spikes back and not Transistors, which I suppose only actuate the relays low voltage coils, to close circuit on the Higher Voltage end of relays.

                              An easier way to do this would be to have all sequenced coils with a COMMON TERMINAL, then exciting independently each other terminal in sequence...as I can see he is got a TWO POLE ROTOR from a Gen Head, so, it would be very wise to activate simultaneously TWO COILS at 180 and rotate that pattern.

                              Figuera does all that "rotation" with just a single brush, small motor and the commutator...way more simplified...except Figuera "spreads" sequence into separated coils and not within same armature-core like he did on his setup.

                              Concluding DIFFERENCES, that Figuera generates a LINEAR MOVEMENT OF FIELD(S), while this guy here maintains a ROTARY SEQUENCE OF THE FIELD(S)...of course, talking about the "EXCITING FIELD(S)"...or "Primaries" if anyone prefer.

                              Finally, the bulky coil he inserts within MOTOR STATOR, connected to gauge and to AC OUTLET, like I mentioned above, is from a Generator Head Rotor...like I have done as well.

                              It would be very interesting to see the Signal he is sending to the Stators with a Scope, at least just a couple of them...

                              Now, the main issue that I see here...is that he is constantly collapsing and rising NEW FIELDS which generates kind of a "SIMULATED ROTATION" but in reality it is NEVER, like is done in a Rotary Generator Head...where the SAME DC FIELD IS ALWAYS CONSTANT AND NEVER COLLAPSING, but only VARYING IN "SPACE-TIME FIELD"


                              My two pennies worth...


                              Regards


                              Ufopolitics
                              Last edited by Ufopolitics; 03-03-2018, 03:26 PM.
                              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                              Comment


                              • I have toggled the film frame by frame and found that it is always between 6 -12 relay LEDs lit simultaneously. . . . . 10 12 10 10 6 8 10 10 8 6 10 .... 6 8 10 10 10 8 8 8 8 8 12 10 12 8 8

                                It's not only a simple coil connection sequence!
                                Read also at , Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy , about the doubts to the relay freq compared with showed output frequency 60.6 Hz !!

                                Regards / Arne

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